Wacky AU idea: Palpatine on the Death Star?

[Battlehymn Republic]

What if, for some stupid self-aggrandizing reason, the Emperor had decided to go onboard the DS1 to Yavin to personally oversee the decapitation and destruction of the Rebellion?

[Big Orange]

The Galactic Empire would lose six years sooner...

[Havok]

Vader just got one hell of a promotion!

[Warsie]

Vader just got one hell of a promotion!

seconded. The other factions I believe would fear and respect Vader given he is Commander of Chief of the Imperial Military and how he can personally kill them all.

[Coriolis]

Vader just got one hell of a promotion!

seconded. The other factions I believe would fear and respect Vader given he is Commander of Chief of the Imperial Military and how he can personally kill them all.

Not really. At the time of ANH, Vader was just an enforcer and didn't hold much political power. Tarkin had more power than him. I say the Moffs take control or lose it completely like Post-endor.

[edit]Punctuation errors.

[TC Pilot]

The Senate probably would have selected a new Emperor, with the Ruling Council acting as a regency council in the meantime.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The Senate probably would have selected a new Emperor, with the Ruling Council acting as a regency council in the meantime.

The Senate was abolished by the time of the destruction of Alderaan, with all administrative functions taken over by the Moffs, Grand Moffs, and other military leaders.

Why would the Senate suddenly come back to life now. More like, there will be a civil war erupting almost immediately with some Grand Moff or Grand Admiral breaking away.

Not even sure if Byss was ready yet.

[chitoryu12]

Besides, if Vader became the Emporer he could easily remove power from the Moffs. He would have little to no trouble with protesters. He's killed for less, after all.

[Noble Ire]

Besides, if Vader became the Emporer he could easily remove power from the Moffs. He would have little to no trouble with protesters. He's killed for less, after all.

Vader simply killing his opposition would do little to solidify his control, especially since some dissenting officials would probably subtle enough to survive an initial purge, and thus be able to work agaist the new Emperor from within. He would actually need a loyal, prominent base of military, governmental, and infastructural figures to maintain any viable authority. I'm not saying that he would be incapable of doing as much (as blunt as he was, Vader was not inept in any regard), but his ascension require far more than a couple of executions.

[TC Pilot]

The Senate was abolished by the time of the destruction of Alderaan, with all administrative functions taken over by the Moffs, Grand Moffs, and other military leaders.

And probably didn't take over the Senate's power to select a "sovereign ruler chosen for life".

Why would the Senate suddenly come back to life now.

Days after its suspension? It's not like it's a very long timeframe between the two events.

Not even sure if Byss was ready yet.

Palpatine has using Byss very early in the Empire's reign, but it's implied by Darksaber Palpatine had not perfected his soul-transfer technique by the Battle of Yavin.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

And probably didn't take over the Senate's power to select a "sovereign ruler chosen for life".

And the Imperial Ruling council would let the Senate back into the chambers after helping Palpatine expel the whole lot? And the Grand Moffs would accept what the Senate says after being deeply ingrained into their minds to obey the Emperor?

Days after its suspension? It's not like it's a very long timeframe between the two events.

And time matters? Pestage has an unbridled distaste for the Senate stretching to before even the Empire itself. Why would he allow the Senate take control of his destiny and even possibly kick him off from power?

[Stark]

Without knowing more about the specific events, 'dissolving the Senate' isn't a light switch. With the Emperor dead and the Senate functioning until a day or two earlier, there's no reason to suppose they couldn't continue to conduct business. Whether anyone would listen to them is something else, but sans Death Star and Emperor, who knows? The Emperor DID design the Empire to fall to pieces without him.

[TC Pilot]

And the Imperial Ruling council would let the Senate back into the chambers after helping Palpatine expel the whole lot?

Perhaps. That's what they did when the Imperial Coalition retook Coruscant.

And the Grand Moffs would accept what the Senate says after being deeply ingrained into their minds to obey the Emperor?

Why would the Moffs stop listening to the body that chooses the Emperor when there's no Emperor to obey? The Empire needs an Emperor.

And time matters?

Greatly.

Pestage has an unbridled distaste for the Senate stretching to before even the Empire itself. Why would he allow the Senate take control of his destiny and even possibly kick him off from power?

And Ars Dangor had an unfaltering faith in the New Order. Why should constitutionality be thrown out the window?

Palpatine's death at Yavin would have been vastly different than his death at Endor. He would not have survived to orchestrate the collapse of the Empire, nor would his advisors be bound to help facilitate such a goal.

[Jaevric]

Actually, it's entirely possible that if the Emperor had been aboard the Death Star, he would have taken command away from Tarkin. In which case, the Death Star's entire complement of fighters may have been scrambled, not just Vader's flight.

Luke may not have ever made his shot on the exhaust port, and the Death Star could have destroyed Yavin 4 and decapitated the Rebellion in one strike.

Of course, it's arguable that the Emperor was at least as supremely overconfident as Tarkin, and would have made the same decisions about launching fighters. Or he may have left command of the Death Star in Tarkin's hands. Though with the Emperor aboard Tarkin may have decided it was better to seem overzealous in his defense of the station than overconfident, and launched the fighters instead of ignoring the threat.

[Tanasinn]

Vader doesn't have much chance unless he can get some serious clout with some moffs or naval commanders. Vader was a despised man amongst most normal naval types and civilians, and the only people following him would be doing so out of fear or an enjoyment of conflict. He was, after all, an enforcer. He did Palpatine's dirty work so he himself wouldn't be stained, thus ruining any chance of Vader being a potential Emperor of the people. In the end, Vader is just one man. Palpatine showed the galaxy that a plain old hail of blasterfire will take care of a Force user just as soundly as a lightsaber.

[Lord Pounder]

Where is it stated that the common man in the street hated and feared Vader? IIRC the Galactic Museum in Corruscant had a nice exhibition about how Darth Vader was the only Jedi who stuck with Palpatine while the other Jedi rebelled. This was in the Rogue Squadron books and ofcourse before RotS.

Also it's stated elsewhere that the rank and file love Vader for his willingness to fight on the front lines with them. You can't have an Empire without soldiers.

[Tanasinn]

The rank and file liked Vader, sure: they appreciated the fact that he was willing to step to the front of the line when killing started up. What political clout do the rank-and-file hold, though? Aren't there going to be other commanders in the galaxy which draw loyalty? I don't know myself, which is why I ask.

I can't give you a bald statement of how Darth Vader was hated and feared, but there is a decent bit of evidence in Dark Lord, for example, that he was indeed a mysterious and probably feared figure. He acted openly to kill a wayward senator, and was further at the front in an attack on Kashyyk that aimed to assassinate remaining Jedi and procure able workers for the Emperor at the same time. Vader's presence there wasn't an unknown: at least one guy in a cantina on the asshole of the galaxy, Tattooine, knows of it and warns Obi-Wan off of being too questioning about the newly-revealed Lord Vader. Acting as a public agent of death does little for one's popularity.

[Big Orange]

In the period of ANH Lord Vader was seen as a outsider in real politics and openly sneered at by the Empire's military establishment - he may have gained respect from the young NCOs and enlisted men serving directly under him, but the high ranking generals, admirals and governors disliked him and Vader seemed to have had little official power over most of them. And if Palpatine went down with the first Death Star, the Galactic Empire would collapse in a similar fashion to the post-Endor Empire, but it could've collapsed relatively bloodlessly, since Palpatine's neo-feudal form of government had only just started and there would've been more legitimate civilian government officials still around to step in and take control of things (with the help of parts of the Empire's military that were still nostalgic about the Old Republic).

[Sidewinder]

Considering Palpatine's powers, it's possible he would've sensed Luke's presence among the fighters attacking the Death Star, and ordered Vader to either kill or capture the Force user among the enemy fighters. That would either seriously fuck up Red Squadron's mission, or cause enough of a distraction that the other fighter squadrons can pour torpedoes down the exhaust port while Vader's off chasing Luke's X-Wing.

[Solauren]

The Emperor senses the danger in the force.

The Emperor mind fucks all the rebel fighters. (After all, they did want the X-wing originally before Incom's design team defected to the rebellion).

Yavin goes boom.

the Emperor and Vader find a "luke skywalker from tattooine" is amongst the rebel fighter pilots, and put 2 + 2 together.

[Noble Ire]

The Emperor senses the danger in the force.

The Emperor mind fucks all the rebel fighters. (After all, they did want the X-wing originally before Incom's design team defected to the rebellion).

"Mind fucks all the rebel fighters?" Palpatine may be capable of some very impressive feats of telepathy (covering up the burying of the Lusankya on Coruscant, for example), but as far as I know, he's never demonstrated the ability to dominate the minds of enemy soldiers at extreme distance.

[Havok]

Considering Palpatine's powers, it's possible he would've sensed Luke's presence among the fighters attacking the Death Star, and ordered Vader to either kill or capture the Force user among the enemy fighters. That would either seriously fuck up Red Squadron's mission, or cause enough of a distraction that the other fighter squadrons can pour torpedoes down the exhaust port while Vader's off chasing Luke's X-Wing.

"My son is with them"
"Are you sure?"
"I have felt him, my master."
"Strange that I have not."

Palpatine is not all powerful, all seeing.
The above, from ROTJ, was after the first time he felt him, when he started training with Yoda. I would guess it was more Yoda's sudden presence in the Force that he felt than Luke's anyway.

[Thanas]

Didn't Publius already answer this?

EDIT: To clarify, this is in aswer to the question if Vader takes control.

In the event of the Galactic Emperor's death, Lord Vader is not particularly high on the list of natural claimants to the Imperial Throne (although Grand Moff Trachta did refer to the Empire as being "a theocracy of two"). Lord Vader was the Galactic Emperor's personal representative and even his generalissimo after the Battle of Yavin, but his position in the Imperial State was far from absolute; he decidedly lacked the power and influence of the Grand Vizier or Ars Dangor (as gray an Eminence as Père Joseph ever was). Lord Vader, like GADM Grant and GADM Thrawn and even the Emperor's Hands, was more or less reliant on the Galactic Emperor's favor for his position; he lacked a power base of his own.

In addition to lacking a party of his own, Lord Vader had the active hatred of several established parties at court. He was overtly despised and opposed by such courtiers as the Baron Tagge, Grand Moff Nox Vellam, and GADM Rufaan Tigellinus, and covertly hated by others like the Prince Xizor. Nor was he so feared that to oppose him was unthinkable; there have been no less than three plots against him by disaffected Naval officers (one in "Betrayal," one in "Darth Vader Strikes," and one in "Resurrection of Evil" and "To Take the Tarkin").

There is ample evidence that Lord Vader dislikes politicking. Nevertheless, his distaste for it should not be mistaken for inability at it; he can be quite cunning when he chooses to be. He engineered the Baron Tagge's death on Monastery at Luke Skywalker's hands in "In Mortal Combat!", outmaneuvered the Princess Leia on Aargau in "The Third Law!", double-crossed the treacherous admirals in "Darth Vader Strikes," and arranged successfully to stigmatize Skywalker with his rebel comrades in "Pariah!" There is no question that he prefers direct and decisive action, as seen in The Empire Strikes Back and Shadows of the Empire, but he is most certainly not the clumsy brute that Mr. Zahn subsequently painted him as being (Thrawn snidely informed CAPT Pellaeon that he had no objection to accepting a good idea that was not his, unlike Lord Vader, despite the fact that the Dark Lord of the Sith had accepted Thrawn's own proposal to dispose of Zekka Thyne in "Side Trip").

Lord Vader almost certainly had in mind elevating himself to the Throne, not a Pestagian-Isardian regency or a Thrawnian shogunate. The best way to do this would be to secure his position as supreme commander. With the strategic forces under his command, he would wield a considerable amount of leverage against other possible claimants, and indeed might very well be able to win over the Grand Vizier or Dangor by offering to leave him in place as premier of his new Empire (neither Dangor nor the Grand Vizier ever showed an indication that they resented their status as the Galactic Emperor's alter ego, and could probably be convinced to continue managing the day-to-day operations of the Imperial State). This would dispose of one of the chief problems of ascending the Throne.

The problem of Lord Vader's obsession with finding his son might also be dealt with by judicious delegation of responsibility, which Lord Vader has been known to do before (e.g., FADM Firmus Piett after Bespin). He has been shown to have worked closely with Thrawn before, and could probably count on his support; he might also be able to secure the allegiance of Grant, the Tapani aristocrat who lacked any power base of his own, and of GADM Teshik, the conscientious and dutiful officer commanding the important Azure Hammer Command (it is very likely that he could also acquire GADM Takel, who was won over to Trioculus's Legitimists by nothing more than a demonstration of Force lightning). By delegating the war against the Rebellion to these officers, and possibly dispatching his own dark side pupils – such as Lord Hethrir, High Inquisitor Tremayne – to find and bring Skywalker to him.

Lord Vader could certainly rule an Empire, albeit probably a different one from the one that Darth Sidious created. He is more than willing to play competing parties against each other, and will not hesitate to liquidate enemies when the time is right (indeed, this style of leadership held Isard in power during her dictatorial regency, and it was her own deliberate policy that brought her regime down). As early as the Battle of Yavin, he fancied plans to install himself as a celestial ruler, and he certainly planned to "kill the Emperor and devour his darkness, and rule the universe." His plans for apotheosis were probably more like Jerec's, and therefore might be seen as relatively more benign than the Galactic Emperor's own narcissistic design.

A final note on Lord Vader's religious leanings: As late as Return of the Jedi he was a committed devotee of the dark side of the Force, as evidenced by his reflection that the eternal "emptiness at his core" would become "an exalted void" that would "encompass the universe" after he "learned all he could of the dark power" from the Galactic Emperor's "dark genius," and seized that same power and "keep its cold light at his own core." He fully intended to rule the universe as a dark side theocrat, with his son at his side. Though he lacked the Galactic Emperor's narcissistic desire to consume all life into himself, he certainly showed no signs of apostatizing and returning to the Jedi; he only repudiated the dark side when faced with the immediate choice between his redemptive love for his son and his perverse love for his Sith Master. With the Galactic Emperor dead, this choice would never present itself, and there is little impetus for such a light side relapse absent the Galactic Emperor (not to mention that his status as the Chosen One is nullified by the destruction of the dark side's avatar).

[Battlehymn Republic]

I actually was going to add another hypotheticals thread, but I didn't want to clog up the forum. It could actually be split two ways-

1. Luke hits the exhaust port- but at the same time, the DS destroys Yavin.

2. Same, except the Emperor's onboard.

And you could always have one where Vader dies, but then you kind of not have Star Wars anymore, since all the freakin' main characters are dead.

[Warsie]

Not really. At the time of ANH, Vader was just an enforcer and didn't hold much political power. Tarkin had more power than him. I say the Moffs take control or lose it completely like Post-endor.

[edit]Punctuation errors.

Okay? Odd; I swore he was still Supreme Commander and was great at politicking/