The TNG movies

[Uraniun235]

What are your thoughts on the TNG movies?

For me, Nemesis is an abortion and Insurrection was like the worst of the TV series in that it seemed so utterly terrified of changing or doing anything significant at all. First Contact was a fun popcorn flick, but I find it doesn't do a whole lot for me on repeat viewing and I can't help but resent it for turning Picard into a wannabe-action-hero.

Generations is clunky (and at times infuriatingly irritating) due to the contriviances needed to fulfill Berman's laundry-list of everything he wanted done in the movie... but at the same time, it seems like it's the most valid of the TNG movies. It feels like a real ending to TNG, it dares to kill two major characters (the ship, and Kirk), and it even tries to reach for a theme (age, death), which is a lot more than the other TNG movies can say for themselves. (First Contact arguably is about revenge, but that feels more like a vehicle to justify Picard becoming an action hero... maybe you could say the same about Generations and Picard being weepy? I dunno.)

Hell, I'm probably just being sappy about Generations. But I certainly cannot rate it as worst or even second-worst of the four TNG movies. Maybe it's even better than one of the TOS movies? (Heresy?)

What do you think about the TNG movies?

[Ghost Rider]

They pretty much all suck, just various degrees.

Generations had no real goal, and several plotholes. The whole "family" angle is some personal subplot of Picard's but is alluded that is the major plot of the movie, along with some half assed age/death plotline trying to lurk around. And that falls flat since all we have is Picard brood, resolve, and Kirk dies like a chump. Less said about Data's pathetic "Emotion" endeavors, the better.

First Contact, sadly I enjoyed the most, and not because of any real plot movement or character development. Mostly Starship porn, which was sadly underused given what could have been.

Insurrection...just sucked. Pointless hackneyed plot with a absurd notions on both ends of the stick.

Nemesis just hurts my head in how much stupid they want one to swallow.

Overall, my biggest beef of the movies is they are the TV done a bit larger. Only Picard has any miniscule development, and the rest might as well be no name redshirts for all it matters.

[VF5SS]

Generations I agree really failed at doing anything right. When your the most compelling villain you can get is Admiral Tolwyn minus all the charm with some forehead bumps, you're hurting.

First Contact would've been cooler if it wasn't about lol TIME TRAVEL and retconning Zephrane Cochrane into a crazy boozer, although he was the best character in the movie. I dunno about some Trekkies, but the space battles looked pretty lame with what Uraniun called, "LOL buzzing bees attack!"

Nemesis was utter shit. I felt bad for the overweight actors trying to reprise their roles. Especially poor Brent Spiner who looked like a blob of gold paint. And the bad guy less threatening as Alien Tolwyn. Lame to the max.

I guess the TNGs movies are an example of what happens when you try to put a soap opera on the big screen.

[Ghost Rider]

One thing I will say about the whole TOS versus TNG. TOS at least used and explored other people, and had bigger concepts. I may have not cared a damn about The Motion Picture, but for the most part it wasn't "2 parter TV episode". That was the problem with TNG...I could almost see where you could split each of the movies as such and they never felt any more then that.

[FedRebel]

My thoughts on TNG season 8

Generations: Completely pointless, its only purpose was to "pass the torch", and that wasn't necessary. The magical Nexus made absolutely no sense, and in my opinion was the worst possible medium to get Kirk and Picard to meet. The ending is a POS too, Kirk falls off a bridge and the E-D was destroyed by a Bird of Prey.

First Contact: Overall it was pretty good, but I think it'd be better without the queen. I also think that the 24th century segment should've been longer and executed to portray the Borg as a far more dangerous adversary.

Insurrection: WTF, pretty much sums it up. First off what in the Hell are the Feds doing with a cloaked ship? Given how Picard gave Admiral Pressman a tongue lashing concerning the Pegasus, it's strange that he didn't do the same to Admiral Dougherty. Another thing, why is Picard making such a big case concerning 600 people, the Baku are only 600 strong, that is NOT a sustainable population.

Nemesis: Disappointment sums it up. They said that the movie would involve Romulans and a villian that would rival Khan, tell me what would you expect? Tomalak, the recurring Romulan commander who has lots of potential, nope. Surely then it must be Sela, who else has a Khan like grudge against the main characters, nope. Instead we get "Shitzon", who is a clone of Picard that was brutally enslaved by the Romulans, ofcourse then his goal of bringing glory to the Romulan Empire makes perfect sense.

[Patrick Degan]

Generations was the least awful of the TNG films, but that's not saying much.

Suffice to say, they all made Star Trek V: The Final Frontier look like a work of genius in comparison.

[Havok]

I agree with Uraniun on the soft feelings for Generations.
The weird part about it for me, was the begining of the movie feltt VERY TOS movie like, while the TNG part felt... wrong somehow. Not like how the show felt, but not how a movie should feel. I'm not sure how to describe it... maybe it was the weird lighting on the D or something.

My only complaint about it was the scope... Kirk dying over ONE planet? Not at all what I wanted.
I know he put his ass on the line for less than that many times, but this was it. Kirk. Last stand. I wish it had been more grand and had more people than Picard and the D bridge crew know about it. Like the supernova was going to power up the Nexus and it was going to consume the alpha quadrant or something... have Kirk go out saving Earth, The Federation, Starfleet, The Romulans AND The Klingons.... That would have been Kirk!

First Contact was good. It had the "ooo and awww" factor of the cool space battle with the Borg, and aside from the lame deflector dish fight scene, was a good popcorn flick.

The other two are just utter shit.

[Havok]

Generations was the least awful of the TNG films, but that's not saying much.

Suffice to say, they all made Star Trek V: The Final Frontier look like a work of genius in comparison.

V had it's moments. "I miss my old chair." "Excuse me. What does God need with a starship?"

[Patrick Degan]

Generations was the least awful of the TNG films, but that's not saying much.

Suffice to say, they all made Star Trek V: The Final Frontier look like a work of genius in comparison.

V had it's moments. "I miss my old chair." "Excuse me. What does God need with a starship?"

Oh, I certainly agree on that score. ST:TFF did have its moments. The same cannot be said for any of the TNG movies.

[Knife]

Meh, the TNG movies are all on the low end of meh. That said, I think Insurrection gets hammered harder than it deserves. It's by no means a great movie, see above, but as a mindless pop-corn flick I think I actually liked it more than Generations or even First Contact. Nemesis has no redeming qualities.

[Stormbringer]

What do you think about the TNG movies?

Generations. Decent enough at the time (which might have to do with my age) but definitely deficient compared to what could and should have been. They killed off an iconic character and an iconic ship and didn't do justice to either. The crash sequence was probably the best part of the movie, if only for being a big action piece. A watchable film that could have been much more.

First Contact. A lot of action and some decent character moments for Picard. It's probably the best of the TNG movies but it's really nothing like the epic Wrath of Khan or Undiscovered Country. As mentioned, it feels like a really big episode. It really hasn't held up well in that it lost it's luster too quickly.

Insurrection. I didn't analyze it much seeing but even watching it the plot just didn't quite hang together. Looking at it now it comes off as horribly flawed as one can easily see why the "bad guys" took the actions they did and the "good guys" are actually defending a bunch of self-centered, morally bankrupted Luddites. It's just unwatchable now.

Nemesis. It stands as the magnum opus of failure. No more need be said.

[CaptHawkeye]

Generations - Probably the least atrocious of them. Kirk's death was dramatic at first, but felt empty once you realized how pointless it was.

First Contact - As GR pointed out, nice starship porn that just didn't last long enough. The initial Borg encounters and engineering attack scene were good. But after that, things got boring. After the dramatics of the special effects wear off, you remember what chronic retards the Borg are. And realize that the movie does little to change this image. This wouldn't be so bad if the plot didn't revolve around them.

Insurrection - The movie felt as if it had no point. It was also more preachy than usual for a Trek film. I found the psuedo aryan portrayal of the Ba'ku and Picard's defence of them equally as disgusting as Mike did.

Nemesis - Words fail me.


The movies had lots of problems, the worst of which being that little to no change was made to the characters or universe. Generations at least gave us an excuse to get a new Enterprise. Although the ENT-D's death was nowhere near as dramatic and tear inducing as Kirk's Enterprise.

After that, what really happens? The Borg Attack. Picard blows them up. End of event.

The So'na attack. Picard blows them up, end of event.

Shinzon attacks. Picard... well, impales him. We get a change in the universe here as the crew breaks up and leaves. But this movie was dragged down in so many other ways, the changes are just too god damn little to help.

[Starglider]

V had it's moments. "I miss my old chair." "Excuse me. What does God need with a starship?"

'The Final Frontier' had a catgirl, and that's one more redeeming feature than Nemesis.

I love that part in First Contact where Picard is wandering down a corridor, explaining the future to Lily. 'We no longer care about material possessions... we strive to better ourselves...' He's supposed to be distracted, but the vapid monotone in which Stewart delivers that little speech makes him sound like a brainwashed politically-correct zombie. I find it hilarious.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I always preferred the TOS movies over the TNG.

Nemesis was the worst of the lot. It so numbed my brain and it wasn't really exciting. Even the space combat at the end was a bit "meh".

Insurrection was another miss. Nothing much to say about that movie, other than ranting and a contrived plot.

First Contact had at least pretty starships to look at. Some degree of a plot.

Generations was another pointless transition movie. The sort of movie that existed perhaps just to destroy the current Enterprise and then build a new one just because the former looked dated. Passing the torch as well.

ST V: TFF was quite cute at times. Not exactly the best TOS movie, but at least fun nevertheless. Scotty was hilarious. "I'll have this ship ready, captain, even if I have to go out and push."

[Uraniun235]

V had it's moments. "I miss my old chair." "Excuse me. What does God need with a starship?"

'The Final Frontier' had a catgirl, and that's one more redeeming feature than Nemesis.

I love that part in First Contact where Picard is wandering down a corridor, explaining the future to Lily. 'We no longer care about material possessions... we strive to better ourselves...' He's supposed to be distracted, but the vapid monotone in which Stewart delivers that little speech makes him sound like a brainwashed politically-correct zombie. I find it hilarious.

That was one weird aspect about First Contact, how they had spent years distancing themselves from the preachy Roddenberry-utopia talk of TNG's first season and then they went right back to it.

[Bounty]

I can't bring myself to really like Generations. It doesn't feel like either a movie or a bloated two-parter episode; it's just a collection of scenes and set-pieces that slouch towards the ending by writers' fiat. It has it's moments: McDowell does a good job, some of the imagery worked (like the weird lighting around Amargosa) and the Veridian crash was a bold move that payed off, but overall, it felt cheap and rushed.

The problem here was that there was no real vision for the film, no core idea that the story flowed from. It tries to inject themes, but does so haphazardly, like Data's emotional turmoil that gets fixed by a quick chat with Picard.

Overall, it's a half-assed effort that stays afloat thanks to some of the actors, but I can't say I've felt the need to see it the last few years.

First Contact is probably the best of the bunch. It's not trying to be a deep or thought-provoking movie, but a fast-paced adventure with a good villain where the plot follows logically from the characters' actions. It's got a solid A-plot to drive the movie, a softer B-plot (Cochrane) to balance it out and provide a few breathing points and it looks gorgeous.

Insurrection is the most underappreciated TNG movie. Yes, I've said it. It's easily second to FC, even if it's silly - actually, maybe because it's silly. INS just dared to do a different Trek film, a sort of updated TFF without the heavy-handedness and this time it really worked. Scenes like the Picard/data chase or the Riker Manoeuvre ("activate manual steering column!") are brilliant in their campiness but they still manage to feel like genuine TNG. Sure, the backstory could've been thought out a bit better and the actual "insurrection" plot was anemic, but that doesn't really matter when the movie kicks ass as much as INS does.

Nemesis, then - it's eye candy without a soul. Trek-by-numbers. When the highlight of the movie is a wedding scene, you know there's something wrong.

[Bounty]

That was one weird aspect about First Contact, how they had spent years distancing themselves from the preachy Roddenberry-utopia talk of TNG's first season and then they went right back to it.

They're running from alien cyborg zombies. Lily comes from a post-nuclear watseland. did you really think Picard was going to start an economics lesson, or does it make more sense for him to just summarise the future as "we built this ship to do good"?

[RThurmont]

IMO First Contact and Insurrection were highly watchable and enjoyable (although the plot of Insurrection was somewhat flawed, and the Son'a were not exactly the most chilling of villains). Nemesis sucked, by any and all standards, and was just depressingly miserable to watch. If I recall, there were some good moments in Generations.

First Contact was probably the best of the bunch, but the actor who played Cochrane is one I personally cannot stand, and he did an utterly lame job in his portrayal. The film would have been infinitely better without him. IMO a "director's cut" of the film with that actor digitally edited out and replaced by a better one would be awesome (hey, if George Lucas can do it, so can Star Trek).

I would narrowly prefer seeing the TNG films over ST: 3 and 4 (with the exception of Nemesis, which again, was terrible), and given the choice of seeing them or 5 and 6, that would be a tough call. At the end of the day, though, I've always felt that the only really great Star Trek films are The Motion Picture and The Wrath of Khan.

You can't beat the epic scale and theatrical score of the former, nor the fine acting and action sequences of the latter.

[ShadowSonic]

The problem with the TNG Movies is that there really wasn't any need for them, at least not so soon to the end of the TV series.

TV TOS had no conclusion, and was cancelled after only 3 seasons. There was also like...what...13 years before they began making movies? There was time for the want of TOS be build up. Also the time gap allowed for changes in the status quo within the TOS movies (Kirk being an Admiral, Spock and McCoy resigning from Starfleet, the Constitution refit, etc).

With TNG, they started making movies right aftetr the show ended without any time gap, so there wasn't time for any change in the status quo.

They also couldn't do any arc-type stories like the TWOK-TSFS-TVH trilogy because of DS9 and VOY being on at the same time and especially DS9 using Worf. The movies had to be in real time in that every 2 years between the movies was also 2 years within the movie universe too.

And they couldn't do any status quo changing stuff in the TNG movies either, because it would've screwed with DS9. Apparently the DS9 staff were PO'ed enough that the Defiant was in FC and having to mention the Borg attack, so if the TNG movies did anything bigger like have the Borg take out a portion of Earth, or have a war with the Romulans break out, etc the DS9 staff would've been PO'ed as hell to have to deal with that.

So I think they shouldn't have made any TNG movies, not for a few years at least.

[Morilore]

That was one weird aspect about First Contact, how they had spent years distancing themselves from the preachy Roddenberry-utopia talk of TNG's first season and then they went right back to it.

Well, when Picard did his revenge rant it seemed like the writers were almost giving Roddenberry the finger by showing that Mr. True Believer was not above such base passions. (One of the reasons I like First Contact.) So in that sense you might say that that kind of talk is a set-up to knock down those pretensions. Although that may be giving the writers too much credit.

[ShadowSonic]

I found an earlier post I did on another board over why the TNG movies were the way they were:

With the TOS movies, they were the only avaiablable Trek at the time, and they could do what they wanted, and could expand on the Trek universe in ways that hadn't been done in TOS.

"TOS also never had a real finale, it was cancelled after only 3 seasons. The movies offered a great chance to expand on the Trek universe and do stuff they hadn't been able to do due to cancellation.

With TNG, they had a full 7 seasons and then a marvelous finale that wrapped up the series quite well. Also throughout the 7 seasons they had done a great job expanding on the TNG universe, so much that they had 2 spinoffs. They had no need for expansion, and they had all the time they needed to tell the stories they wanted to tell.

Also, there was the 15 year gap in the TOS movies and the TV series, whereas the TNG movies were right after the show ended. The time gap allowed for things like Kirk's promotion and the subplot of his dissatisfaction with his high rank, Spock being a Captain now, the introduction of new chars like Saavik and David, etc. The TNG movies had no time gap, so it wouldn't make sense for there to be as many changes to their crew as to the TOS crew.

There wasn't as much demand for TNG movies, "All good things" had wrapped things up quite well and set the quality bar too high.

And also, they had to worry about DS9's storyline. If the DS9 writing team were angry over having to mention the Borg attack, you can bet they'd be pissed over Earth getting trashed by an Alien Probe.

Also, the focus on chars in the TNG movies was almost always on Picard and Data, to the neglect of all the other chars. The TOS movies were all about Kirk Spock and McCoy, but that was okay because that was all the original show was about too. With TNG they treated all those other chars as primaries and wrote about them as an ensemble cast in the show, but in the movies the spotlight was on Stewart and Spiner."

[Mange]

I think they're all pretty bad with Insurrection and Nemesis being the worst and Generations the least worst. First Contact feels disjointed, the interaction between the main cast non-existent and it doesn't "feel" like a Star Trek movie (at least not in the sense of TWoK) and how the hell was Cochrane able to put together a Warp engine in the first place? That took me out of the story the first time I saw the movie and I've never been able to quite get back in again.

[ShadowSonic]

Well, they never showed us just what the original prototype warp engine looked like at all, so for all we know it was a clunky piece of junk he put together using what scraps of civilization he could find and was good for like one or two tests before breaking down.

[Thag]

One of the things that I feel puts Generations and First Contact above the other two is the fact that, even if the storyline was lacking, it felt like you were watching the original TNG characters (whether you consider that good or bad is another matter). Then suddenly, between FC and Insurrection, it's like they decided the crew needed to be more...I guess 'hip and edgy' would be the best way to say it. Only problem is, it worked about as well as your crazy uncle trying to sing rap to the kids at the family reunion.

[Patrick Degan]

Well, they never showed us just what the original prototype warp engine looked like at all, so for all we know it was a clunky piece of junk he put together using what scraps of civilization he could find and was good for like one or two tests before breaking down.

Nevermind that such a "creation" would be more likely to blow up in its inventor's face better than 95% of the time.