Bioshock... Tuesday!

[nickolay1]

There is NO in game motivation to go inside the lighthouse at first, much less down the bathysphere, much less taking your first plasmid.

No joke. If I had just survived such a catastrophic crash and was lucky enough to find a structure above water, I sure as hell wouldn't even think about "exploring" it. The main character logically should have just waited for rescue at the lighthouse.

Though this brings me to another question, how long until the search party does arrive and discovers the lighthouse? When they do, there's no question that the military will be sent in to clean it out. Does the game end at that point?

[Vympel]

We have no idea of the backstory of BioShock in relation to how the nations of the world (Ryan is obviously scared to death of both the USA and USSR) feel about Rapture or whether they know of its existence. Reason would indicate they do - you can't create something like that without someone noticing.

Also, a search party for a passenger jet crashing in the middle of the ocean in 1960? How would they find it?

[Mr Bean]

Waiting on the steps Nickolay? If you just climbed out of a burning airplane, and stumbled on what you thought was a light-house, you would not wait quietly outside, no one fucking would, because a Light-house implies PEOPLE. You going to be in shock, cold, wet. Your not going to sit @W$ outside with the sea and wait for rescue, hell no your going to go inside, because there might be people in there.

Sooner or later everyone would, your going to sit on those steps and sleep the night away in the cold and possibly rain, or are you going to go into the only shelter you can find, right the fuck in front of you?


FYI, I have bought the game, installing drivers, and restarting, first impressions of the GAME itself to follow in an hour or so.

[nickolay1]

Also, a search party for a passenger jet crashing in the middle of the ocean in 1960? How would they find it?

As soon as contact was lost, they'd know to send ships and aircraft along its route in an attempt to locate any debris or survivors.

Waiting on the steps Nickolay? If you just climbed out of a burning airplane, and stumbled on what you thought was a light-house, you would not wait quietly outside, no one fucking would, because a Light-house implies PEOPLE. You going to be in shock, cold, wet. Your not going to sit @W$ outside with the sea and wait for rescue, hell no your going to go inside, because there might be people in there.

Sooner or later everyone would, your going to sit on those steps and sleep the night away in the cold and possibly rain, or are you going to go into the only shelter you can find, right the fuck in front of you?

Of course I wouldn't sit on the steps. I'd go into the lighthouse, so that the roof could shelter me. But I would NEVER even consider boarding a bathyscaphe that's behind on its maintenance schedule by over a whole fucking year.

[Shogoki]

If you were on an airplane crash and survived next to a lighthouse, i guarantee you would eventually go in. This is the 60's, rescue will probably take days or weeks, even if you stay out all night and don't freeze in your wet clothes you'll walk in to shelter from the mid day sun eventually, and once trapped inside, you'll probably start fiddling around after a few hours trying to get out.

I don't think it's unrealistic that he pulled the lever, only it would have taken a lot longer for a person IRL to get the courage to do it. Most people would want to play sitting around scratching your head and scared all day, though.

[Mr Bean]

Of course I wouldn't sit on the steps. I'd go into the lighthouse, so that the roof could shelter me. But I would NEVER even consider boarding a bathyscaphe that's behind on its maintenance schedule by over a whole fucking year.

Yes, I can't argue with the the crazy arse Bathyscaphe, ooh look shiny thing! I think I'll pull it!

I'd figure they put something like a medical box inside it, some reason to lure the player inside, rather than just, shiny level I think I see what happens.


But anyway back to the game itself. I've played through, mid-way through the medical area. Considerably more open ended than the starting area of course. Splicers are much more annoying now. Attacking in packs, and showing smart AI. Plus some good scripting in certain areas(A husband and wife splicer pair arguing about Adam. A father splicer crying of the picture of his dead child kinda shocked me, and when he started screaming keep away from her(The picture of his dead daughter) I freaked.

Oh and I saw my first System-Shock style ghost, good stuff. Currently I'm hunting a crazy doctor for his pass-code, I've got a Tommygun and I've hacked and stolen enough money to have it well equipped. So I'm ready to roll in that area.

Have to run to work, I'll get some more time in this evening.

[Hotfoot]

If you were on an airplane crash and survived next to a lighthouse, i guarantee you would eventually go in.

I agree, EVENTUALLY. The problem here is that eventually in this case means that eventually the player gets bored with watching the plane wreckage slowly sink and burn in a disturbingly calm sea and wonder what the fuck they're supposed to do to make the game go forward. They have almost zero attachment to the main character thus far, they just started the game, so the developers have to rely on what the player's motivations are when they give them none. Same with the first Plasmid. Eventually you'll take it in that "Jesus Fuck what do I have to do to get to the next section?" moment, but otherwise, why would you logically inject yourself with a huge vial of god knows what?

My point is that it would have been laughably easy to add even the barest of justifications to go in the lighthouse (stormy seas, hell, even waves), go in the Bathysphere (Atlas chattering), or take your first Plasmid (Atlas talking you into it). They didn't. In a game that is supposed to be based on immersion, storytelling, and difficult moral choices. In the demo alone I was faced with three fake choices that were made on "Christ, what do the devs want now?" Yeah, sure, the demo is the tutorial, that's fine. Even excluding SS2's training center, the first five minutes of the actual game were a better tutorial than Bioshock's.

[Darwin]

Shooter 2.0 is still a shooter. Do you have any reason to believe that any of those things they mock in the above is going to be a big feature of the game? They never said this game was going to be some non-scripted free-form free-for-all, ever.

What they mainly promised was an ecology that would function without the player's interaction. This generally means that by the time you get to a certain area, things have happened that make it play differently from the last time you were there.

The demo fails to show this as there's hardly an encounter that isn't scripted.

[Darwin]

One thing that irks me about the graphics on both versions - no anti-aliasing. Apparently if you own a DX10 card you can force it via the control panel, but my 7900 doesn't let me.

Yeah, the new drivers don't allow AA forcing without the Ntweak utulity, which hard-locks on my motherboard (Known issue). You can restore the old control panel with a registry tweak, that lets you force AA again.

[Xisiqomelir]

We have no idea of the backstory of BioShock in relation to how the nations of the world (Ryan is obviously scared to death of both the USA and USSR) feel about Rapture or whether they know of its existence. Reason would indicate they do - you can't create something like that without someone noticing.

It's supposed to be Ken Levine's vision of an Objectivist dystopia. Andrew Ryan is disgusted with the status quo of the world order and creates an undersea Galt's Gulch, but an accident corrupts the technology and spawns monsters. In very short order, things break down.

[Laughing Mechanicus]

Yeah, the new drivers don't allow AA forcing without the Ntweak utulity, which hard-locks on my motherboard (Known issue). You can restore the old control panel with a registry tweak, that lets you force AA again.

My drivers (163.44) do have the option to force anti-aliasing, but setting it just doesn't affect Bioshock. Does the registry tweak you mention fix that? Do you have a link to information on how to implement it?

[Darwin]

My drivers (163.44) do have the option to force anti-aliasing, but setting it just doesn't affect Bioshock. Does the registry tweak you mention fix that? Do you have a link to information on how to implement it?

Forceware coolbits+rivatuner 2.02 should be able to force AA into bioshock. I'm going to test this theory tonight.

http://downloads.guru3d.com/

[Xisiqomelir]

Scandal today, the widescreen is apparently just cropped 4:3

Big brouhaha on the 2k forums.

[Darwin]

Scandal today, the widescreen is apparently just cropped 4:3

Big brouhaha on the 2k forums.

only scandal really cause the devs promised:

You will see more in widescreen. We use a different projection matrix; there is no squashing or stretching of the image involved.

though it's true there's no squashing or stretching.. they just crop off the top and bottom and zoom you in. =P

The game will render in full 16:9 aspect ratio, with no letterboxing unless your resolution is not true 16:9.

oops.

[CaptHawkeye]

My point is that it would have been laughably easy to add even the barest of justifications to go in the lighthouse (stormy seas, hell, even waves), go in the Bathysphere (Atlas chattering), or take your first Plasmid (Atlas talking you into it). They didn't. In a game that is supposed to be based on immersion, storytelling, and difficult moral choices. In the demo alone I was faced with three fake choices that were made on "Christ, what do the devs want now?" Yeah, sure, the demo is the tutorial, that's fine. Even excluding SS2's training center, the first five minutes of the actual game were a better tutorial than Bioshock's.

Here fucking here. The game just repeatedly forces the player to do the stupidest, most illogical things. Yet the reviewers are literally clamoring over the story. But hey, I stopped listening to reviewer opinions on "lol, video game writing" after Half Life 2.

And another thing. If Atlas knew first time Plasmids are enough of a kick to knock you the fuck out, why didn't he tell you to go to a safer area? How much good is the player going to be to him if someone catches him commatose on the floor? Actually, they did. And it was only by act of plot the player survives the encounter. Basically just to show off the Daddy and Little Girl. Even though the later encounter in the theatre does the job just fine.

Forced character exposition? Check.

[SylasGaunt]

I've been working through the Medical pavilion and just killed my first Big Daddy.. and nearly crapped my pants when I realized that they were waaaaaay faster than that mauling one gives a splicer would suggest.

Lucky for me I have a tendency to hack everything in sight so I had a security turret in that room and was being followed by a security bot, both of which he decided to destroy before coming after me so I got a chance to pump a bunch of lead into him before he came my way.. and then I got to feel like a complete asshole for doing it when the little sister started crying over his corpse.

[Hotfoot]

Here fucking here. The game just repeatedly forces the player to do the stupidest, most illogical things. Yet the reviewers are literally clamoring over the story. But hey, I stopped listening to reviewer opinions on "lol, video game writing" after Half Life 2.

And another thing. If Atlas knew first time Plasmids are enough of a kick to knock you the fuck out, why didn't he tell you to go to a safer area? How much good is the player going to be to him if someone catches him commatose on the floor? Actually, they did. And it was only by act of plot the player survives the encounter. Basically just to show off the Daddy and Little Girl. Even though the later encounter in the theatre does the job just fine.

Forced character exposition? Check.

Moreover, WHERE DID THEY COME FROM AND GO? They came in stage right and exited stage left....TO WHERE? You're in a linear area, so linear, there aren't even any locked doors except the one in front of you! Did they just pass through the fucking walls? ALL OF THEM?

[SylasGaunt]

And another thing. If Atlas knew first time Plasmids are enough of a kick to knock you the fuck out, why didn't he tell you to go to a safer area? How much good is the player going to be to him if someone catches him commatose on the floor? Actually, they did. And it was only by act of plot the player survives the encounter. Basically just to show off the Daddy and Little Girl. Even though the later encounter in the theatre does the job just fine. .

That all depends on if it was taking the plasmid that knocked you out or going over the rail and landing face first on the floor did it or if it was a combination of the two.

[Darwin]

My drivers (163.44) do have the option to force anti-aliasing, but setting it just doesn't affect Bioshock. Does the registry tweak you mention fix that? Do you have a link to information on how to implement it?

I checked into this a little more, if you make a profile for bioshock within the nvidia control panel, you should be able to force up to 16xAA there. Tweakguides owner has confirmed this works. AA not supported in Bioshock with ATI in DX9 so far as far as I know.

[CaptHawkeye]

That all depends on if it was taking the plasmid that knocked you out or going over the rail and landing face first on the floor did it or if it was a combination of the two.

Granted, but if a first time plasmid is enough to put someone in a state of such intense physical pain that they can barely stand up, then the least Atlas could have done is told you to go back to the terminal where he can cover you before you scream your head off and let everyone in the city know where you are.

By the way, did anyone else notice that if you go down the lighthouses' right, unlit staircase, you can CLEARLY see where the ocean texture ends and just gives way to endless sky?

[Nephtys]

I've never heard so much whining over level one of a game ever. You'd think to help set the story, you'd NEED some contrition. It's an artistic choice to give you a glimpse of how things are. Sort of like how until you actually get into the city, it seems great and intact. Then the first guy dies against the glass of your diving bell.

It's level one for god's sake. At worst, it means that the Demo doesn't show what was promised at all. Sure, I found it a little silly that Atlas never explained how he can see you, or why your character decided to inject random crap into his own system. But it's not game-breaking. I for one, have enjoyed the Demo which has erased all worries of mine that Bioshock would fail to live up to it's predecessors.

[Laughing Mechanicus]

I checked into this a little more, if you make a profile for bioshock within the nvidia control panel, you should be able to force up to 16xAA there. Tweakguides owner has confirmed this works. AA not supported in Bioshock with ATI in DX9 so far as far as I know.

Thanks but I'm still not having any luck. Tomorrow I'm going to do a clean driver re-install and see if that doesn't get it working straight.

[Hotfoot]

I've never heard so much whining over level one of a game ever.

Yeah, I mean, you'd think that someone hyped the game or something. You know, like making promises they didn't keep?

You'd think to help set the story, you'd NEED some contrition. It's an artistic choice to give you a glimpse of how things are. Sort of like how until you actually get into the city, it seems great and intact. Then the first guy dies against the glass of your diving bell.

...wow, you completely missed the point. Also, I think the word you're looking for is not contrition, but cop-out. They're trying to draw you into the story and the world, the last thing they should want is to give you some sort of reason to be pulled OUT of the story by breaking the fourth wall.

It's level one for god's sake. At worst, it means that the Demo doesn't show what was promised at all. Sure, I found it a little silly that Atlas never explained how he can see you, or why your character decided to inject random crap into his own system. But it's not game-breaking. I for one, have enjoyed the Demo which has erased all worries of mine that Bioshock would fail to live up to it's predecessors.

I'm comparing the demo, which is the actual game's first moments, to it's predecessors and the promises the developers made based on what they chose to show us. How is this unfair? The tutorial sections of their previous games were superior to this in every respect, except they didn't have super shiny graphics or creepy little girls that eat your guts.

[Darwin]

I've never heard so much whining over level one of a game ever.

Yeah, I mean, you'd think that someone hyped the game or something. You know, like making promises they didn't keep?

You'd think to help set the story, you'd NEED some contrition. It's an artistic choice to give you a glimpse of how things are. Sort of like how until you actually get into the city, it seems great and intact. Then the first guy dies against the glass of your diving bell.

...wow, you completely missed the point. Also, I think the word you're looking for is not contrition, but cop-out. They're trying to draw you into the story and the world, the last thing they should want is to give you some sort of reason to be pulled OUT of the story by breaking the fourth wall.

Basically, the demo failed as anything more than a tech demo and an introduction to the game world. It gives you an idea of what settings will work on your box in the full game and lets you see the pretty shiny things. With only 2 plasmids to play with and a linear path, the demo experience is really limited.

it does:

Show you if you can run the game passably on your PC or not
Show off the pretty effects

It doesn't:

show any of the ecosystem/living world they've been talking about
show the crafting/modding/characterbuilding RPG elements
show the flexibility you're supposed to have in dealing with situations and threats
give you a good idea of what gameplay will be like past the intro level

[Nephtys]

I don't pay attention to the hype. Any hype I've heard seems pretty much in line with an updated SS1/2, which is all that I'm hoping for.

I don't see what's the big deal of the 'He's unconscious' part at the start. It's certainly a better way of introducing characters than to have you just run into them around a corner. It also let you hear some of the crazies talk and such instead of letting them just be meat for clobbering. It also introduced the creepy little girls. Would you prefer a recorded cutscene for the entire start, then dropping your first moments of control after getting the wrench? Admittedly, I do agree that there's no reason to get into the diving bell. They should have had the radio lie on a seat, and a voiceover go 'Huh, a radio.' or something.

I love SS2, and let's use that as an example. How is it's 'tutorial' at all better? The much famed 'THE ROOM IS DECOMPRESSING!' scene is pretty much the same as Bioshock's 'THE TUBE IS FILLING WITH WATER!'. There's the 'horrid murder to shock you while you stand before glass'. All that was really different is that Bioshock lacked the 'go to the recruitment center' part. Not too big a loss. Atlas plays the exact same role as Delacroix, etc. I felt that the introduction was better than SS2's. Although Bioshock needs more ghosts.

And System Shock 1? Oh boy. It dropped you into the middle of whacking mutants with a pipe thirty seconds after the game started. That's hardly an easy tutorial either.