D&D 4th edition!?!?

[Rogue 9]

Well, the end of Living Greyhawk is a certainty, no matter what else is actually going on. I have that straight from the RPGA members' meeting today.

[Steven Snyder]

Well, the end of Living Greyhawk is a certainty, no matter what else is actually going on. I have that straight from the RPGA members' meeting today.

Are they going to select a new default campaign setting for 4th, such as Eberron?

[Darwin]

Well, the end of Living Greyhawk is a certainty, no matter what else is actually going on. I have that straight from the RPGA members' meeting today.

Are they going to select a new default campaign setting for 4th, such as Eberron?

The default campaign setting will be the Realms, with Eberron also a primary setting.

[Darwin]

If I had to speculate based on the above I would expect the following changes...

AC Bonuses from Armor now replaced with Damage Reduction.

The big question is whether AC will stay, or if it will be replaced with Reflex Defense. Anyway, armor will probably function much as it does now.

Vitality/Wound points replacing the Hit Point system.

This was thrown out with Saga edition SW, as V/W was a bit too deadly in critical hits. Expect more HP and possibly a damage track.

Complete reworking of the Critical Hit system to use the DR/VP/VW system.

Wizards has abandoned DR/VP/WP. Seriously, where are you getting these ideas?

Spellcasting now depletes the PC's Vitality points instead of Spell Slots.

A bad idea for SWd20, and it continues to be a bad idea. Spellcasting will use a similar system to the techniques in Tome of Battle, with per-combat and per-day spells, and some way for the wizard to refresh his spells.

I also predict that Attribute stats will be changed to use the modifier rather than the score that is then converted to a modifier. For example Redgar has a Strength of +3 instead of a Strength of 16.

Too sacred cow. Expect attributes to remain as they are.

I actually liked the Starwars system and I look forward to this.[/quote]

You seem to have missed that some of the changes are from SW SAGA, not SW Revised.

[Rogue 9]

Well, the end of Living Greyhawk is a certainty, no matter what else is actually going on. I have that straight from the RPGA members' meeting today.

Are they going to select a new default campaign setting for 4th, such as Eberron?

I don't know about changing the default setting, but the RPGA's new shared campaign is going to be Living Forgotten Realms. The Greyhawk fans were up in arms at the convention.

[Imperial Overlord]

I don't know about changing the default setting, but the RPGA's new shared campaign is going to be Living Forgotten Realms. The Greyhawk fans were up in arms at the convention.

Not surprising. They've been giving Greyhawk the shaft for a long time now.

[Hotfoot]

Meh. I haven't done much with the RPGA, but the "Living" games that I've tried out or heard about pretty much suck. My experience may not be that of everyone, but the stuff seemed pretty lame, all things considered.

Maybe the longer you stay in, the better the games get, but it seems like most of them are pure hack and slash with plots so linear they make Half Life look like Deus Ex.

[Rogue 9]

The one and only RPGA event that I've entered, namely the D&D Open, was the best single gaming session I've ever been in. Of course it was a hack and slash fest, given that it was a tournament event, but it was intense.

I like roleplaying better, but really involved plots tend to take three or four sessions at least to fully bear themselves out.

[Hotfoot]

The one and only RPGA event that I've entered, namely the D&D Open, was the best single gaming session I've ever been in. Of course it was a hack and slash fest, given that it was a tournament event, but it was intense.

I like roleplaying better, but really involved plots tend to take three or four sessions at least to fully bear themselves out.

In a good con session, you can get in some great roleplaying if you get a good GM. Sure, it doesn't beat good campaign, but I've done a lot of con games, both running them and playing in them. Maybe if I played a little more RPGA stuff I'd find such games, but ugh.

Plus all the between game regulation stuff is pretty tedious.

[Steven Snyder]

The big question is whether AC will stay, or if it will be replaced with Reflex Defense. Anyway, armor will probably function much as it does now.

From what I have read after my initial post, it seems that AC is going away to be replaced by the above mentioned "Reflex Defense" and it's other two siblings Fortitude and Will Defense.

Does this mean that all offensive spells are going to require a 'hit' against the target's appropriate Defense score instead of the current system that requires the defender to roll? Sounds like it...

This was thrown out with Saga edition SW, as V/W was a bit too deadly in critical hits. Expect more HP and possibly a damage track.

I stopped looking into Star Wars d20 shortly after the Revised Edition, though some things were fixed it seemed to me that Wizards just let the line wither on the vine. I was unaware that Saga was released until it was mentioned earlier.

But what of this Damage Track? I hadn't heard of this...

I also predict that Attribute stats will be changed to use the modifier rather than the score that is then converted to a modifier. For example Redgar has a Strength of +3 instead of a Strength of 16.

Too sacred cow. Expect attributes to remain as they are.

Sacred cow or not, it really doesn't make a lot of sense to have an attribute system that exists only as an artifact of an earlier system. With only a handful of exceptions the value of the attribute is meaningless, with the derived modifier being what is really important.

But I digress, Wiz has never been one to rely too much on logic.

*edited to fix tags

[Darwin]

Does this mean that all offensive spells are going to require a 'hit' against the target's appropriate Defense score instead of the current system that requires the defender to roll? Sounds like it...

It's likely to go to an 'attacker rolls vs fixed defense' for all rolls, so yeah.

But what of this Damage Track? I hadn't heard of this...

That's one thing that might not fit in the 'Heroic' instead of 'Cinematic' setting of D&D. First level PCs have between 18 and 30 HP, and a threshold based on their fortitude defense, that when exceeded by damage, moves them down a condition track to inflict penalties on rolls and actions. Some feats and techniques can move a character down the condition track much more quickly. A 'refresh' action which takes a full round can move them up the track one step, and first aid devices do the same sort of thing. Characters also get a 'second wind' they can use once per day to give back 1/4 of their HP total. In all, a lot less deadly.

Sacred cow or not, it really doesn't make a lot of sense to have an attribute system that exists only as an artifact of an earlier system. With only a handful of exceptions the value of the attribute is meaningless, with the derived modifier being what is really important.

odd values have always been used as prereqs for feats, and in Saga, raw scores are used for some things (second wind gives back 1/4 of total HO or HP equal to your con score, whichever is greater).

[Raw Shark]

While there are changes in play (such as incorporating "epic-level play," with 30 levels instead of 20), they are described as "evolutionary" rather than "revolutionary."

Nigel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...

Marty: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?

Nigel: Exactly.

Marty: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?

Nigel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?

Marty: I don't know.

Nigel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?

Marty: Put it up to eleven.

Nigel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.

Marty: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?

Nigel: [pause] These go to eleven.

[Ritterin Sophia]

This was thrown out with Saga edition SW, as V/W was a bit too deadly in critical hits. Expect more HP and possibly a damage track.

A totally retarded idea since now someone can take a direct hit from a blaster and not die.

A bad idea for SWd20, and it continues to be a bad idea. Spellcasting will use a similar system to the techniques in Tome of Battle, with per-combat and per-day spells, and some way for the wizard to refresh his spells.

An idea that was removed IIRC from the previews, from what I remembered you can use one power an encounter and on a natural 20 you get all your powers back, if you don't it takes a minute of rest to recharge.

I actually liked the Starwars system and I look forward to this.

I did too, don't like the HP System for Star Wars.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Well, the end of Living Greyhawk is a certainty, no matter what else is actually going on. I have that straight from the RPGA members' meeting today.

Are they going to select a new default campaign setting for 4th, such as Eberron?

The default campaign setting will be the Realms, with Eberron also a primary setting.

As it should be

[Imperial Overlord]

There's a couple of ways of potentially refreshing powers in the Saga edition, depending on your character's abilities. The "roll natural 20 and power X recharges" is a special ability. Spending a Force point is another.

The handling of Force points is a nice change. They reset every level and spending them generally boosts a character's ability at the task he's attempting. It encourages the players to go full out, spending them and attempting difficult tasks. Very much in the feel with the movies.

Yeah, the fatality system of the game has gotten nerfed, but no one wants to lose a character to a single lucky NPC shmuck die roll. It also doesn't encourage flamboyant heroism and it isn't Star Wars without flamboyant heroism. It wasn't my preferred solution, but it works. The HP/VP systems both relied upon a certain level of abstraction for handling damage, that hasn't changed. It should be noted, since a natural 20 is an automatic critical, having a bunch of NPCs open up on your character is not healthy. Getting hit hurts in this game. Blasters do a lot of damage. No one will be laughing off blaster fire.

On a side not, it's funny to watch D&D slowly turn into the Earthdawn system.

[Stark]

From someone who never played D&D, seeing 'of course it was pure hack and slash, it was a tournament game' simply boggles my mind. Tournament CoC or Pendragon or Traveller or any of the games I've played is nothing at all like hack and slash, certainly not at a con arranged by people with a clue. In my experience, tournament games remove the Diablo effect and allow players to concentrate entirely on roleplaying and drama rather than 'zomg get teh itemz' and 'oh noes i don't want to lose my campaign character'.

[Darwin]

The big question is whether AC will stay, or if it will be replaced with Reflex Defense. Anyway, armor will probably function much as it does now.

From what I have read after my initial post, it seems that AC is going away to be replaced by the above mentioned "Reflex Defense" and it's other two siblings Fortitude and Will Defense.

They leaked some red dragon stats, and AC is still in.

[Rogue 9]

From someone who never played D&D, seeing 'of course it was pure hack and slash, it was a tournament game' simply boggles my mind. Tournament CoC or Pendragon or Traveller or any of the games I've played is nothing at all like hack and slash, certainly not at a con arranged by people with a clue. In my experience, tournament games remove the Diablo effect and allow players to concentrate entirely on roleplaying and drama rather than 'zomg get teh itemz' and 'oh noes i don't want to lose my campaign character'.

You can't objectively judge roleplaying to any meaningful degree. The tournament was scored based on how many of the goals the group achieved, not all of which were combat-based.

[Edward Yee]

Solauren, think that a 3.5->4.0 conversion guide PDF (similar to RCR->Saga Edition's) will decide the question for you?

My primary concern for now is seeing what I can use for house-ruling into other d20 (haven't played D&D forever due to a falling-out with the game concept -- I just could not roleplay D&D with any system), and how D&D 4.0/OGL inclusion affects the possibility of a future SRD 4.0.