Forget "design flaws". Is the entire Galaxy concep

[Sidewinder]

In the TWoK novelisation, Kirk congratulates Sulu on his promotion to captain and his posting as Excelsior's captain. A scene for the movie was shot where Sulu mentions this (as part of the conversation in the drydock fly-by) but Shatner reportedly had it cut.

Does 'The Wrath of Khan' DVD have this deleted scene as an extra? (I don't have DVDs for the 'Star Trek' movies.)

[Uraniun235]

I don't think so. Actually, I don't recall the TWOK DVD having deleted scenes, but I might be wrong on that.

[Knife]

In the TWoK novelisation, Kirk congratulates Sulu on his promotion to captain and his posting as Excelsior's captain. A scene for the movie was shot where Sulu mentions this (as part of the conversation in the drydock fly-by) but Shatner reportedly had it cut.

Does 'The Wrath of Khan' DVD have this deleted scene as an extra? (I don't have DVDs for the 'Star Trek' movies.)

No, I actually watched the directors cut the other day and didn't see anything of the sort.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

He's not asking if it's been put back into the film, but if it's included along with any other deleted scenes as part of the special features.

However, Uranium is right that the DVD does not include any deleted scenes. I don't have it but I checked the review on The Digital Bits, and none were listed in the content breakdown.

[Bounty]

From STM's script:

SULU
Enterprise, this is Admiral Kirk's
party on final approach.

ENTERPRISE VOICE
(filtered)
Enterprise welcomes you. Prepare
for docking.

Kirk looks up from his book as Sulu sits next to him.

KIRK
I really must thank you.

SULU
(embarrassed)
I am delighted; any chance to go
aboard Enterprise, however briefly,
is always an excuse for nostalgia.

KIRK
I cut your new orders personally. By
the end of the month, you'll have your
first command: USS EXCELSIOR.

SULU
Thank you, sir. I've looked
forward to this for a long time.

KIRK
You've earned it. But I'm still
grateful to have you at the helm
for three weeks. I don't believe
these kids can steer.

Sulu laughs.

[Big Orange]

If the Galaxy-class should've been a Federation town in space then it could've been at least five times bigger than it actually was, with onboard facilities aimed at making it self sufficient, a military garrison and proper residential areas for civilian science staff (no kids!) if it is supposed to be a deep space exploration vessel that is also a military warship (without being a nightmarish hybrid of a hotel/day care centre crossed with a aircraft carrier/ICBM silo). I agree with Patrick Deagan that the overall appearance of the Galaxy would look pretty similar to Starfleet ships from Kirk's lifetime and that onboard it would have the feeling of being a mobile US Military base.

[ShadowSonic]

But then what would've been the point of having it set in the future be at all if they weren't going to change anything and have everything be exactly the same as it was 100 years ago? The average viewer would just look at it and say "these cheapskates couldn't even make a new ship" and just change the channel.

I mean, that was why they updated the look of all the ships and sets and Uniforms when they did the TOS movies, to set it apart from the TV show. And also why in successive Trek show they had a different "main" ship (with DS9 it was the Station and the Defiant), commercial reasons to attract viewers with something different from before.

[Typhonis 1]

Well then for loooks go with the Sovereign class. Iy has your futuristioc looks and a nasty loadout. make Wesley a fresh from the academy ensign who happens to be serving with his mother and wallah.

[ShadowSonic]

I'd agree with that. I was looking at that "Ships of the Line" book that came out a while ago and compared the Sovereign and Excelsior images on the cover. The Sovereign actually looks like the linear descendant of the Excelsior.

Wesley, just make him a 22 (or 21 if you want him to be very smart) year old ensign who got on the ENT-D because his mom is the CMO although he has a cool relationship with Picard as he remembers him as the guy who got his dad killed.

Until he finds out he's really Picard's son from an affair he had with Beverly.

[Patrick Degan]

But then what would've been the point of having it set in the future be at all if they weren't going to change anything and have everything be exactly the same as it was 100 years ago? The average viewer would just look at it and say "these cheapskates couldn't even make a new ship" and just change the channel.

Utter nonsense. Whether or not viewers will reject a series depends upon how well it does its job storytelling and how compelling the characters are, not how snazzy or different the uniforms are.

I mean, that was why they updated the look of all the ships and sets and Uniforms when they did the TOS movies, to set it apart from the TV show.

There is a rather complicated evolutionary tale about the development of what became the movie series. Mainly however it was because they had a big movie budget to play with.

And also why in successive Trek show they had a different "main" ship (with DS9 it was the Station and the Defiant), commercial reasons to attract viewers with something different from before.

Yes and each and every one of those shows flopped. You can chart their declining ratings on a curve. Viewers bailed out of the Franchise because the storytelling, simply, was crap. It wouldn't have mattered what ship they introduced to market them.

Wesley, just make him a 22 (or 21 if you want him to be very smart) year old ensign who got on the ENT-D because his mom is the CMO although he has a cool relationship with Picard as he remembers him as the guy who got his dad killed.

Or, you simply introduce Wesley Crusher as the 24th century's Mr. Midshipman Hornblower, with Picard acting as analogue to Capt. Pellew.

[ShadowSonic]

Well, I wouldn't say that DS9 and VOY flopped commercially. Yes they didn't get anywhere near the ratings TNG did in it's prime but they made it the full 7 year run, which is more than most other sci-fi shows can say other than Stargate SG-1, and it still mystifies me how that show lasted so long since I can't bear to watch it all that much. VOY was more a creative failure than a commercial one and I still put most of the blame for that on UPN. DS9 I don't have a problem with creatively, though I do think it was unfair how the Paramount execs treated it like a red haired stepchild.

Hell, even some of the best sci-fi shows I've seen in the last ten years (Farscape and Space: Above and Beyond mainly) couldn't go that long and got cancelled, Farscape needing a TV movie to wrap itself up and their ratings were worse than VOY and DS9's.

Now ENT, yeah that was bad. Which is a shame because I thought the actors were all pretty good, just badly written and underutilized.

[General Zod]

Well, I wouldn't say that DS9 and VOY flopped commercially. Yes they didn't get anywhere near the ratings TNG did in it's prime but they made it the full 7 year run, which is more than most other sci-fi shows can say other than Stargate SG-1, and it still mystifies me how that show lasted so long since I can't bear to watch it all that much. VOY was more a creative failure than a commercial one and I still put most of the blame for that on UPN. DS9 I don't have a problem with creatively, though I do think it was unfair how the Paramount execs treated it like a red haired stepchild.

Hell, even some of the best sci-fi shows I've seen in the last ten years (Farscape and Space: Above and Beyond mainly) couldn't go that long and got cancelled, Farscape needing a TV movie to wrap itself up and their ratings were worse than VOY and DS9's.

Now ENT, yeah that was bad. Which is a shame because I thought the actors were all pretty good, just badly written and underutilized.

Getting lots of seasons hardly means it was commercially successful. It just means the studios poured lots of money into it. As far as shows that lasted several seasons. . . .Babylon 5, SG-1, X-Files, Sliders and Battlestar Galactica all come to mind. Having lots of seasons usually has the baggage of having lots of filler episodes, I find.

[ShadowSonic]

B5 got 5 seasons, SG-1 got 10 (I still don't get why), X0files got a few more seasons than it should have, Sliders was like 4 seasons I think and BSG had 3 before being told they were only getting one more due to low ratings.

So far the only modern Trek to last less than it's contracted run is ENT.

I think TNG was more or less the only Trek show that was ever going to get the sort of ratings it did, and may have to considered unique rather than the standard for ratings of a sci-fi show.

[Starglider]

SG-1 got 10 (I still don't get why)

Because it was awesome.

However the Ori storyline was a bit too short. It should have had either 8 or 12 seasons. Actually 9 would've been ok if the Replicarter arc had gone on an extra season, Replicarter rocked.

P.S. Holy Topic Drift Batman

[Big Orange]

But then what would've been the point of having it set in the future be at all if they weren't going to change anything and have everything be exactly the same as it was 100 years ago? The average viewer would just look at it and say "these cheapskates couldn't even make a new ship" and just change the channel.

Going back on topic, I'd say if we use a recognizable TOS design but heavily modify it by greatly increasing it in size (five times bigger), build the multiple warp nacelles (five in number) closer to the engine hull, build the engine hull much closer to the saucer section with no fragile "neck" and present this Galaxy-class exterior with decent model work, then it would be as fresh as anything Trek did in the last two decades (perhaps fresher). In my mind I imagine the ship's exterior would mostly be similar to the Excelsior (a Starfleet design that has aged very well both "in" and "out" universe) with the blocky utilitarian features of the Constitution-class (which has also aged surprisingly well).

But I still think the interior sets of the ship are vastly more importent than the exterior of the craft...

[Starglider]

But I still think the interior sets of the ship are vastly more importent than the exterior of the craft...

Agreed. Which reminded me of an cool post by DW I came across when reading the archives a while back:

I guess I and the Star Trek writers just have very different views on what an engine room should look like. Here's what their idea of the engine room looks like:

Geordi Laforge stepped out of the turbolift and into the Engineering section. He walked on the soft carpeted floor until he was standing next to the warp core. It was making a relaxing, soft humming sound, and he could see the light-blue reaction happening only a few feet away, through its conveniently transparent walls.

"OK Ensign, looks like we have to scan the warp core vessel for microfractures. Do you think you're up to it?"

"Yes sir." Ensign Jamieson beamed brightly. He was always eager to impress his superior officers.

"OK then, get to work. Report back to me when you're done." Geordi handed him a tricorder and a PADD.

"Yes sir." Ensign Jamieson replied smartly, then turned on his heels and began entering data into his PADD. This was going to be a good day.

And this is what my idea of an engine room looks like:

Ensign Jamieson stepped out of the turbolift and into the Engineering section. He passed the Control room where the techs were monitoring every conceivable operating parameter of the warp core, under the suffocating but competent watch of the Chief Engineer, Geordi Laforge.

"Must be nice", he thought to himself. The Control room was such a peaceful environment, filled with blinking displays and ordered instrumentation. But he didn't rate the Control room quite yet, so he kept going, until he reached Q1: the first quarantine checkpoint. He walked into the scanning booth, putting his feet on the clearly marked yellow footprint markers on the gleaming metal floor plate.

"Sir, please extend your arms and put your hands into the receptacles" said the crewman. Jamieson knew the drill. He put his hands into the scanning receptacles where they would receive an even more thorough detail scanning than the rest of his body. Every possible contaminant would be logged, as would any sign of irradiation. This check was performed every day, every time someone entered or left the engine room. The light above his head glowed green, and a familiar computer voice said: "All Clear."

"Sir, you are cleared to proceed."

Jamieson nodded and continued into the locker room, where he got out his gear. He still remembered the instructions they'd given him on the first day he worked with a live warp core: check every seal, inspect every part. He sealed his suit, snapped his helmet onto the locking ring, and activated his helmet HUD displays. Oxygen, nitrogen, ionizing radiation detectors, vital sign monitor, all on-line. He pushed the button on his arm-mounted control pad and a series of green lights flashed inside his helmet: the auto-diagnostic checked out OK. He could barely hear the heavy clomp of his boots as he walked toward Q2: the second quarantine checkpoint.

"Sir, please extend your arms and put your hands into the receptacles" said the second crewman, in almost exactly the same inflection as the first.

The second scan always took longer, but Jamieson was in no hurry. One always had a sense of trepidation when entering the engine room. If the suit and the two quarantine checkpoints didn't make the gravity of the situation clear enough, the heavy doors on the airlock ahead made things perfectly clear. The light above his head flashed green, and he heard that droning computer voice again. "All Clear."

"Sir, you are cleared to proceed." the crewman's voice sounded in his helmet speakers.

"You sure you don't want to take my place?"

"Only if you'll take my place when I visit my mother-in-law next month, sir." the crewman responded.

"Fuck that," Jamieson grunted. "I've seen your mother-in-law." He marched into the airlock and waited for the secondary door to close behind him. He stood like a statue, looking forward at the heavy duranium primary blast door. The red alarm light over the blast door began to flash, and the two foot thick metal door ponderously rotated on its massive hinges until there was an opening just wide enough for him to pass. He could feel the powerful rumbling in the deckplates now, rattling his teeth.

He moved inside. Even with the active cooling systems and radiation shielding systems in place, the engine room was hot. Hot enough to explain why they called it the Hellhole. But the cooling systems in his suit were working properly, and the noise cancellation systems in his helmet kept the thunderous roar of the immensely powerful reactor down to a merely irritating level, as opposed to a deafening one.

"All right Jamieson", the speaker in his helmet crackled to life. It was Laforge's voice. "I don't think I need to explain to you that if we can't track down and seal that microfracture, we are in some serious shit. Start your scan with the primary containment vessel."

"Yes sir" Jamieson responded. He brought his microfracture scanner up to eye level, and began to work. This was going to be a long day.

Not at all the same.

If the TNG set designers had gone for the later rather than the former (to the extent that their budget allowed), the GCS exterior design would be a minor issue.

[General Zod]

B5 got 5 seasons, SG-1 got 10 (I still don't get why), X0files got a few more seasons than it should have, Sliders was like 4 seasons I think and BSG had 3 before being told they were only getting one more due to low ratings.

So far the only modern Trek to last less than it's contracted run is ENT.

I think TNG was more or less the only Trek show that was ever going to get the sort of ratings it did, and may have to considered unique rather than the standard for ratings of a sci-fi show.

The fact those shows did as well as they did for not having a built-in fanbase (sans BSG) speaks volumes. As it is Trek got so many seasons by simply having such a huge fan collection to begin with. Without riding the coattails of TOS it's doubtful TNG would have gotten very far.

[Big Orange]

If the TNG set designers had gone for the later rather than the former (to the extent that their budget allowed), the GCS exterior design would be a minor issue.

The Starfleet ensign going through heavy duty quarantine procedures to enter the sealed in warp core sounds like too much padding for a TV episode, but like the ritualistic procedures in law enforcement shows that sort thing would be edited down or out most of the time (Lieutenant LeForge: "Right, I'll enter the central warp core chamber to adjust the plasma inductors..." *CUT TO* *The impregnable blast doors to the warp core chamber ponderously glide open to reveal LeForge, his worried expression hidden behind the reflected faceplate of his intimidating hazard suit, with his delicate hands sealed into gauntlets like crab claws and his feet encased in titanium industrial boots*).

I also kinda of like to see the enlisted Starfleet personnel reside in comfortable, but spartan and undeniably militaristic barracks, with the ship itself having different architecture for different sectors (not unlike the Nostromo from Alien, but the Enterprise-D is more like the US Pentagon crossed with a US Navy carrier rather than oil rig crossed with a cargo ship).

[Patrick Degan]

If the TNG set designers had gone for the later rather than the former (to the extent that their budget allowed), the GCS exterior design would be a minor issue.

The Starfleet ensign going through heavy duty quarantine procedures to enter the sealed in warp core sounds like too much padding for a TV episode, but like the ritualistic procedures in law enforcement shows that sort thing would be edited down or out most of the time (Lieutenant LeForge: "Right, I'll enter the central warp core chamber to adjust the plasma inductors..." *CUT TO* *The impregnable blast doors to the warp core chamber ponderously glide open to reveal LeForge, his worried expression hidden behind the reflected faceplate of his intimidating hazard suit, with his delicate hands sealed into gauntlets like crab claws and his feet encased in titanium industrial boots*).

The only time there should be any reason for a human being to get anywhere close to the reactor vessel is in the event of a imminent ship-destroying problem and that should be a one-in-a-series event if it's to be seen at all. For what you're suggesting, remote-directed robots could do most of the work and everything would be handled from control consoles in Engineering Central.

[Darth Wong]

The Starfleet ensign going through heavy duty quarantine procedures to enter the sealed in warp core sounds like too much padding for a TV episode ...

Who said anything about entering the warp core? Real-life personnel never really enter the nuclear reactor, but they have to go through all those procedures just to get anywhere near it. In Star Trek, they act as though the warp core is about as dangerous as a box of Kleenex as long as you're not within about two inches of the reactor wall.

[Hitch Hiker]

I watched 'Disaster' the other day. and one thing puzzled me. When La'Forge and Crusher are stuck in the cargo bay and they decide to de-pressure the bay. Why didn't the designers of the LACRS control system think of putting a button on the main bay to space door opening control panel to re-pressure the bay. Surely it would have been useful in accident circumstances where the forcefield failed and the person at the control could simply hit the button instead of staggering all the way back to the doors to hit the button as Crusher did?

[Starglider]

Why didn't the designers of the LACRS control system think of putting a button on the main bay to space door opening control panel to re-pressure the bay?

At this point I would find such sudden and unexpected competence on the part of Starfleet designers more puzzling than yet another idiotic design. I imagine they just considered the probability of their forcefields failing too low to worry about, something that their use of forcefields alone for quarantine purposes (Starfleet is too advanced for jars!) and the existence of force-field observation windows on the (supposedly combat oriented!) Enterprise-E seems to confirm.

[ShadowSonic]

Are the observation windows only forcefields, or do they not have some damage feature wherein a metal sheet (or transparent aluminum sheet) will qutomatically close over where the inactive field was during a power failure?

[Starglider]

Are the observation windows only forcefields, or do they not have some damage feature wherein a metal sheet (or transparent aluminum sheet) will qutomatically close over where the inactive field was during a power failure?

In any sane universe they would, but given that this is Starfleet we're talking about I wouldn't count on it. However if it closes at the same speed it opens any such feature will be no consolation to anyone in the compartment, as they will have long since been sucked out into space.

[Uraniun235]

Are the observation windows only forcefields, or do they not have some damage feature wherein a metal sheet (or transparent aluminum sheet) will qutomatically close over where the inactive field was during a power failure?

Which observation windows? Do you mean the one seen in First Contact? I don't think that was necessarily designed as an observation window.

Do you mean like the ones seen in various rooms in the ship? Because those weren't forcefields.