Bioshock: City of Rapture quantification?

[Natorgator]

I know there is a thread about this in G&C but this isn't really related.

I hope I am not the only one here who is completely fascinated by the city of Rapture. I doubt we have the technology to create such a place now, much less in the 1940s (which is probably part of the reason it appeals to me so much.)

So my question, if only nothing other than something wankishly fun to think about, how would we go about making an underwater city if it was deemed necessary, and could it be made to look like it does in the game? I imagine that most of the buildings would have to be pre-fabbed in large chunks and then taken to the ocean where they could be placed in special moorings to lock them into place on the ocean floor. (And as an aside, would heavy thick steel even be enough to withstand the pressures from deep under the ocean?) Judging from the beginning of the game, it does not seem to be too incredibly deep since you see the city not too long after passing the 18 fathoms mark. It is probably around a kilometer.

What other (hideously impractical) considerations would one need to take into account in creating an underwater city? Would pressurization and recycling of air be a big problem?

[Darwin]

Well, it was already mentioned that most of the oxygen processing is natural, via gardens and parks, though this would have to be supplemented to be functional for an otherwise 1960-style city.

[SylasGaunt]

Note some sections of the city are deeper than others. For instance there appears to be a geothermal power station near the base of the city.

[InnocentBystander]

Ignoring the issue of just building the thing...

I think feeding everyone would be a huge problem. Unless there are huge farms somewhere, or they are importing food from the surface (I guess I'm not sure why, but it strikes me as unlikely.)
There is also the issue of drainage. The city is constantly leaking by the time you get there, but you never really see any drains.

[SiN]

We have to bear in mind that the state we saw the city was after war and decay of a year, so some things can't be accepted as the norm.

[SylasGaunt]

Ignoring the issue of just building the thing...

I think feeding everyone would be a huge problem. Unless there are huge farms somewhere, or they are importing food from the surface (I guess I'm not sure why, but it strikes me as unlikely.)

There are farms located within it such as the Arcadia area. Then there's the question of how much gene tampering they've done with the crops.

There is also the issue of drainage. The city is constantly leaking by the time you get there, but you never really see any drains.

That's unusual from what I gather. You don't get to see the place until after the civil war breaks out within. That gives you the possibilities of battle damage and sabotage and then on top of maintenance not being done either through neglect or the guys who do it getting killed or captured.

[Natorgator]

Note some sections of the city are deeper than others. For instance there appears to be a geothermal power station near the base of the city.

I was starting to wonder about power generation until I got to that level. Although I can't imagine why they'd want to move lava around, it was a pretty cool effect.

There are farms located within it such as the Arcadia area. Then there's the question of how much gene tampering they've done with the crops.

No doubt considerable. And not only that, the population could have also been modified to not need as much sustenance since we never see any substantial food around. Just chips and candy bars.

Ignoring the issue of just building the thing...

That is the part I wonder about most. I really hope they release some source material. There are tons of opportunities for storytelling in this world they've created.

[Stark]

Yeah, like 'how'd the city survive so long with whales swimming through the 'streets'?'

It'd be pretty funny if that lighthouse was the only one, the only link to the surface. They must have used a sizable fleet of ships to lay the original buildings, but it's unlikely any thought has been given to it's construction by the developers.

[Laughing Mechanicus]

Well, it was already mentioned that most of the oxygen processing is natural, via gardens and parks, though this would have to be supplemented to be functional for an otherwise 1960-style city.

Actually, what was said was that merely the Arcadia section was self-sufficient on air due to all the trees, with a little left over they could sell back to the city. They specifically mention that Oxygen creation elsewhere in the city is a big business and Arcadia could undercut their prices, presumably meaning the other people in the Oxygen business use some other more expensive method to get it.

Yeah, like 'how'd the city survive so long with whales swimming through the 'streets'?'

It'd be pretty funny if that lighthouse was the only one, the only link to the surface. They must have used a sizable fleet of ships to lay the original buildings, but it's unlikely any thought has been given to it's construction by the developers.

I doubt they would normally be letting whales that close, they probably used some magi-tech device to keep sea life away but which has since broken down. Possibly explains the shoddy state of the inter-building walkways.

The design of the lighthouse suggests to me that it would only be used for transporting new citizens down to Rapture. They probably just lower other supplies down to the 'docks' of the city in sealed crates from ships above.

[frogcurry]

I've only played the demo's so far, but from what I saw there seems to be rather a lot of windows in the place...I doubt anyone would build with that sort of design in real life due to the extra leakage risk, and theres not much to see outside anyway. The maintenance of all the window seals alone would be a job for life for hundreds.

Another problem with drainage is pumping the 1 atmosphere pressure water back out to the sea - the city seems to be at surface air pressure inside. At 1km down (first post), thats > 100 bar differential pressure on a pump needed, sized for a worst case leakage rate (which could be massive in a large scale damage case). So the city would need drain vessels at the base of each building collecting all the leakage water, feeding spared sets of large capacity, high pressure pumps via filters (to protect the pumps). Maintenance would need to be regular to keep the system online.

Building it: design the building so that it is bouyant enough to float when unflooded. Flood slowly using special valves and pipes, such that it descends vertically in a controlled fashion. Guide it into place using attached cables. Once on the seabed, flood fully to pin in place, then secure the base. Then pump out all the water and seal up the flooding system with concrete (to prevent future accidents). Then install all internal fittings. Sounds (almost) simple compared to maintaining the damn things.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

So, other than the obvious fact that the city is underwater, what is fundamentally different about Rapture that warrants its existence in the mind of Andrew Ryan? I know the city "benefits" from the use of plasmids and ADAM but even that just seems like typical behavior of any state that makes some kind of a fortuitous, scientific discovery. The city's economy appears to be highly capitalistic. And there appears to be no evidence of some kind of law enforcement, which would explain why they had such a huge problem with organized crime. What's so fundamentally different about Rapture than any other city above the water? What makes it a "Utopian" city? Or does Andrew Ryan just want a city to himself?

[SylasGaunt]

So, other than the obvious fact that the city is underwater, what is fundamentally different about Rapture that warrants its existence in the mind of Andrew Ryan?

"Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow."

Essentially according to the material I've been hearing Ryan was born in Russia and got to live through the Bolshevik revolution.. then on to America where hey things rock none of this everyone owns everyone else's stuff crap.. then the depression hits and FDR does the New Deal. Ryan freaks at what he sees as it happening again. World War 2, atom bombs, and Ryan decides that there's no room for truly great people up top. So he decides to build his own city where everyone is entitled to their own hard work. In fact the USA and USSR supposedly don't know about it, he's obsessed with keeping the place secret.

The city's economy appears to be highly capitalistic. And there appears to be no evidence of some kind of law enforcement, which would explain why they had such a huge problem with organized crime. What's so fundamentally different about Rapture than any other city above the water? What makes it a "Utopian" city? Or does Andrew Ryan just want a city to himself?

Basically yes, he wanted a city where he and his chosen few were free to be Great People as it were.. of course then he started getting more and more paranoid and nutty as the fighting between his own company and Fontaine and the criminal element so that kinda goes down the toilet.

[Natorgator]

"Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow."

Essentially according to the material I've been hearing Ryan was born in Russia and got to live through the Bolshevik revolution.. then on to America where hey things rock none of this everyone owns everyone else's stuff crap.. then the depression hits and FDR does the New Deal. Ryan freaks at what he sees as it happening again. World War 2, atom bombs, and Ryan decides that there's no room for truly great people up top. So he decides to build his own city where everyone is entitled to their own hard work. In fact the USA and USSR supposedly don't know about it, he's obsessed with keeping the place secret.

Any word on where Ryan made all the money necessary in order to accomplish this? To do something that big (and in secret, no less) he would've had to be a major player of the likes of Carnegie or Rockefeller. To say nothing of the technological achievements.

I also wonder how they would've built this place in the WWII era, with U-boats prowling the Atlantic and most of the US's resources going towards war production.

Basically yes, he wanted a city where he and his chosen few were free to be Great People as it were.. of course then he started getting more and more paranoid and nutty as the fighting between his own company and Fontaine and the criminal element so that kinda goes down the toilet.

Agreed. I was under the impression that the place is a libertarian's wet dream. There was even talk (in the audio diaries) about selling oxygen for profit. And then of course once they discovered the stem cells, things starting going downhill as people got paranoid and started making them all combat-oriented.

[SylasGaunt]

Any word on where Ryan made all the money necessary in order to accomplish this? To do something that big (and in secret, no less) he would've had to be a major player of the likes of Carnegie or Rockefeller. To say nothing of the technological achievements.

He does run his own company Ryan Industries, so presumably that's where the money came from, thought what it did topside I have no idea.

I also wonder how they would've built this place in the WWII era, with U-boats prowling the Atlantic and most of the US's resources going towards war production.

I forget where I heard it but IIRC Rapture didn't begin construction until 1946 and the really serious breakdowns didn't occur until a year or two before the game (1960)

Agreed. I was under the impression that the place is a libertarian's wet dream. There was even talk (in the audio diaries) about selling oxygen for profit. And then of course once they discovered the stem cells, things starting going downhill as people got paranoid and started making them all combat-oriented.

It does sound a lot like that yes. Ryan seemed horrified initially at the idea of putting restrictions on business.. of course later as his paranoia grew and he made his descent into nutterdom he started doing things like tweaking the plasmids he produced so they made people open to suggestion, while it's been suggested that Fontaine Futuristics started getting the cities laborers and such spliced up with Fontaine's poor houses (which given Ryan's constant talk of 'parasites' and such probably horrified him with their existance).