What precisely were "Defense Fields"?

KlavoHunter · Post by **KlavoHunter** » 2007-08-28 06:55pm

In Star Trek 2, in the original encounter between Enterprise and Reliant, Kirk orders Yellow Alert.

Saavik orders "Energize Defense Fields", and we see a display of the Enterprise, and the wireframe of the ship is lit up by a grid-like ring around the inner half of the saucer section, centered on the bridge. I imagine that, off-camera, the rest of the ship was likely also encompassed by this effect.

Obviously, "Defense Fields" are something completely different than shields, as the display for shields is demonstrably different (fat dots along the edge of the ship), and Kirk orders shields-up when Reliant locks phasers.

Just what ARE these "defense fields", then?

I personally imagine them to be some form of hull reinforcement, such as a combat-intensity strengthening of the Structural Integrity Field, and/or possibly something like the Enterprise-era polarization of the hullplates, or a combination of both.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2007-08-28 07:21pm

They looked to be minimal shielding over only the most critical area of the ship. They were not intended for full combat situations. its also possible they are a warming up of the shields so they can be raised quickly if need be.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2007-08-28 10:01pm

My assumption is that its basically the ships Structural Integrity Field, beefed up to high levels to help resist heavy damage from enemy weapons. Hence the reason why Reliants phasers and Torpedoes, while cutting into the E-Nill, didn't blow right through the ship and out the other side or anything. Basically a way to take any damage that bleeds through the shields, but not really designed to take the full force themselves.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2007-08-28 11:16pm

Chris OFarrell wrote:My assumption is that its basically the ships Structural Integrity Field, beefed up to high levels to help resist heavy damage from enemy weapons. Hence the reason why Reliants phasers and Torpedoes, while cutting into the E-Nill, didn't blow right through the ship and out the other side or anything. Basically a way to take any damage that bleeds through the shields, but not really designed to take the full force themselves.

Similar to the NX defenses from Enterprise? Magnetizing the hull I think they called it?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-08-28 11:25pm

Out-of-universe, it was just Nick Meyer trying to re-militarize the Enterprise after the Carnival Cruise treatment that it received in the first movie. He made a concerted and deliberate effort to use audio-visual cues that would evoke comparisons to Horatio Hornblower, so they just made up shit for the crew to do in order to prepare for battle. It didn't have to actually mean anything, make sense, or be consistent with prior precedent.

Hell, you can almost hear a pirate screaming "batten down the hatches, ya scurvy scum!" before the last battle with Khan. Especially when they do silly things like removing cover-plates from torpedo glamour-rails or marching around the hallways carrying glowing batons and looking determined. "Give 'em a taste of cold steel if they come a-boardin'!"

The range of battle in the movie was also designed to look like a Horatio Hornblower sea battle, with the ships literally trading blows from less than one ship-length apart.

KlavoHunter · Post by **KlavoHunter** » 2007-08-28 11:27pm

Destructionator XIII wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:its also possible they are a warming up of the shields so they can be raised quickly if need be.
That is what I always assumed. The step right before real shields up, charging the capacitors or whatever, putting the main grid on standby.

I highly doubt this, as if it were some sort of moments'-notice standby for shields, the Enterprise would have likely gotten her shields up before Reliant began firing, judging by how long it appeared to take the crews on both starships to respond to their commanders' orders.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2007-08-28 11:35pm

havokeff wrote:
Chris OFarrell wrote:My assumption is that its basically the ships Structural Integrity Field, beefed up to high levels to help resist heavy damage from enemy weapons. Hence the reason why Reliants phasers and Torpedoes, while cutting into the E-Nill, didn't blow right through the ship and out the other side or anything. Basically a way to take any damage that bleeds through the shields, but not really designed to take the full force themselves.
Similar to the NX defenses from Enterprise? Magnetizing the hull I think they called it?

Yeah something like that probably. Not that good against the heavy weapons of the time by itself, but better then nothing and just done as a matter of course when a yellow alert is issued.

Post by **Vympel** » 2007-08-29 05:45am

Darth Wong wrote:Out-of-universe, it was just Nick Meyer trying to re-militarize the Enterprise after the Carnival Cruise treatment that it received in the first movie.

Was it his idea to axe those god-awful leisure suit uniforms?

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2007-08-29 06:14am

Vympel wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Out-of-universe, it was just Nick Meyer trying to re-militarize the Enterprise after the Carnival Cruise treatment that it received in the first movie.
Was it his idea to axe those god-awful leisure suit uniforms?

Nick Meyer wrote:"I decided that this was going to be 'Hornblower' in outer space, so I said, 'Okay, if this is going to be the Navy, let's have them look like the Navy; they shouldn't be walking around in pajamas,' which seemed to me to be what the uniforms in the first movie and the TV show looked like."

It was the producer (Sallin) who originally wanted new uniforms, but Meyer who came up with the style. He wanted them half Hornblower, half Prisoner of Zenda.

Fan fact: the TMP unfiforms were actually reused in TWoK - dyed red for the cadets' jumpsuits.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » 2007-08-29 06:36am

I thought that most of the uniforms in TMP were too pajama-ish, but I did like Kirk's Admiral uniform. I don't think that the one-piece suits we saw in TNG+ were bad really.

I kind of wish they had stuck with that conceptual design for what the uniforms would look like in GEN and after though: http://www.st-spike.org/pages/uniforms/ ... iforms.htm

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-08-29 06:42am

Er, that's not conceptual designs, that's comic book art?

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2007-08-29 06:46am

Stark wrote:Er, that's not conceptual designs, that's comic book art?

Scroll down.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-08-29 07:14am

Damn people who hide comic-art conceptual art in a page of Marvel this and DC that.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2007-08-29 04:09pm

Shane Johnson's Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise speculates that the Defense Fields were a secondary shield system which was dedicated to protecting part of the saucer section. This seems to have been likely derived from the sequence of visuals following Saavik's "energize defense fields" remark, in which a computer display animation shows a circle being drawn around the upper decks of the saucer. This display, however, is titled "Intruder Alert", which raises a number of possibilities; that the animation is unrelated to the 'defense fields', or perhaps that the defense fields are not another deflector shield system but rather a transporter blocker field, or even something else entirely.

Alternatively, it is possible that Shane Johnson's source was not the film itself but rather someone on the production staff of one of the movies. Until we know more, however, the nature and function of the defense fields can only be speculated on.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2007-08-29 04:13pm

This display, however, is titled "Intruder Alert", which raises a number of possibilities; that the animation is unrelated to the 'defense fields', or perhaps that the defense fields are not another deflector shield system but rather a transporter blocker field, or even something else entirely.

It's recycled from a deleted scene in TMP, the one where the Ilia probe appears in the crew quarters. I suspect you already knew that...

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2007-08-29 08:46pm

Bounty wrote:
This display, however, is titled "Intruder Alert", which raises a number of possibilities; that the animation is unrelated to the 'defense fields', or perhaps that the defense fields are not another deflector shield system but rather a transporter blocker field, or even something else entirely.
It's recycled from a deleted scene in TMP, the one where the Ilia probe appears in the crew quarters. I suspect you already knew that...

I suspected it, considering that the "Red Alert" computer display animation (seen when Kirk orders battle stations after returning from Regula) was seen in a trailer for TMP, and both it and the Intruder Alert display used the same frame around the animation. I wasn't sure, though.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2007-08-30 06:30am

It's a reuse. That's why the "core" of the saucer is highlighted: it's supposed to highlight Deck 5 or 6, wherever the officer's quarters are. Strangely enough, it looks like the recycled display is accurate, while the redressed display on the weapons console still uses the Phase II outline...

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2007-08-30 10:02am

I always assumed 'energizing the defense fields' were about the same as 'charging the phaser banks' except for the shield system.

If it were some sort of secondary shield system, then Savic's little lines about quoting General Orders makes no sense.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2007-08-30 10:11am

If it were some sort of secondary shield system, then Savic's little lines about quoting General Orders makes no sense.

Saavik.

And her objection would still make sense if the defence fields were nothing more than some sort of protective field around critical areas. Activating them may have stopped the ship from falling apart, but they didn't stop the Reliant from crippling it.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2007-08-30 10:32am

Bounty wrote:
If it were some sort of secondary shield system, then Savic's little lines about quoting General Orders makes no sense.
Saavik.

And her objection would still make sense if the defence fields were nothing more than some sort of protective field around critical areas. Activating them may have stopped the ship from falling apart, but they didn't stop the Reliant from crippling it.

That sounds too Picard-ish. "Sir, we need to raise shields."

Picard- "No, I don't want to look agressive. Activate the little shields instead."

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2007-08-30 10:38am

That sounds too Picard-ish.

It sort of does, but not quite - it's the point of the scene: Kirk didn't make a rational decision, he just couldn't believe the Reliant could be a threat. It's dumb, callous and naive, but that's the whole point.

(One little line got cut that expanded on this - once Reliant comes into view, Kirk says "That's Chekov's ship, isn't it?". The idea was that Kirk didn't even consider the possibility of Chekov betraying him)

Skylon · Post by **Skylon** » 2007-08-30 10:42am

Based on the "Intruder Alert" in the display I assumed they were some type of forcefields, raised around the bridge, in the event the ship got boarded rather suddenly.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2007-08-30 02:13pm

Skylon wrote:Based on the "Intruder Alert" in the display I assumed they were some type of forcefields, raised around the bridge, in the event the ship got boarded rather suddenly.

Isn't the whole reason that screen says "Intruder Alert" is because the shot was swiped from a scene in TMP? Sometimes production gaffes just can't be rationalised in-universe.

Besides, if there was an "Intruder Alert," that would mean they were already boarded.