WH40K What happens to Daemons?

[RIPP_n_WIPE]

Hello. I just started reading Ben Coulters Grey Knights. It's my first 40k Universe book though I've played some table top with my mates. Have to say I love it but I'm a bit confused and maybe it's answered later in the book but I wanted to know now.

Daemons, when they are "killed" do they actually die or is that simply the destruction of their fleshy forms? Essentially an easier form of banishment since they are so weak they don't need to be cast back using straight psyker energies. Or do some weaker demons actually die and the more powerful the demon is the harder it is to actually kill up to such a point that those who are nigh undefeatable by "normal means" are instead banished back to the warp in order to save time.

[Dark Hellion]

IIRC when a demon "dies" most of the time it is actually just detached from the physical plane and banished back into the warp. After this they are weakened and vulnerable to other demons "eating" them.

[The Grim Squeaker]

When "destroyed" they're sent back to the warp, for a period that varies based on the method of destruction (Force, Nemesis weapons HURT, True names even more so), but no permanent harm is done.
The only instance of a Warp being's permanent destruction was Horus's soul at the hands of the Emperor, nothing else has even come close.

[Adrian Laguna]

Daemons can be killed, however doing so requires being in the warp and attacking their essence or spirit directly. Pretty much the only thing that can kill a daemon, then, is another daemon or a Chaos God. Those in the physical universe, Humans, Eldar, etc, can only banish a daemon back to the warp, though destroying their physical manifestation does weaken them considerably.

[NecronLord]

When "destroyed" they're sent back to the warp, for a period that varies based on the method of destruction (Force, Nemesis weapons HURT, True names even more so), but no permanent harm is done.
The only instance of a Warp being's permanent destruction was Horus's soul at the hands of the Emperor, nothing else has even come close.

Err. The Dark Eldar eat souls all the time. While they don't seem to do this to demons, per se, it's not as if souls in 40K are imperishable. Also, I wouldn't expect that other flavours of warp being - such as Enslavers - are deathless in the same way, at all. Enslavers, at least, are part physical.

Similarly, demons can potentially be destroyed often. Other demons or gods who possess their true name can unmake them with a word.


The Eisenhorn books, I believe, suggest that Prophaniti is destroyed, in combat with the inquisitor, though that is of course, from the limited perspective of Eisenhorn, who may be wrong.

Additionally, once they're banished to the warp (in combat at least), Demons are usually (though being chaos, nothing is certain) subjected to punishment for a hundred or a thousand years and a day for their failure. This was last mentioned in the demon-hunters codex, and like the above, could be an errant belief on the part of the Inquisition. Though that seems less likely, as it appears to be widely held.

[Adrian Laguna]

The only instance of a Warp being's permanent destruction was Horus's soul at the hands of the Emperor, nothing else has even come close.

The daemon prince Ysarile was killed when he tried to rebel against Tzeentch. This death is apparently quite irreversible, despite Ysarile leaving behind a corpse of some sort.

Slaanesh succeeded in killing all the Eldar gods save the Laughing God and (roughly) half of Kaine the Bloody Handed.

There's been hints that the Eldar might be able to kill Slaneesh if they can find and properly use some sort of ancient uberweapon.

[NecronLord]

There's been hints that the Eldar might be able to kill Slaneesh if they can find and properly use some sort of ancient uberweapon.

Oh yes. I forgot about that. The Deathsword, of course, can destroy demons from the physical plane. Even with its power pretty much empty, one scratch, and lesser demons crumble to ash and their souls are destroyed.

[The Grim Squeaker]

When "destroyed" they're sent back to the warp, for a period that varies based on the method of destruction (Force, Nemesis weapons HURT, True names even more so), but no permanent harm is done.
The only instance of a Warp being's permanent destruction was Horus's soul at the hands of the Emperor, nothing else has even come close.

Err. The Dark Eldar eat souls all the time. While they don't seem to do this to demons, per se, it's not as if souls in 40K are imperishable.

Eating is merely absorbing the soul and it's "Energy"/flavour, it's not destroying it. (As far as I understand it).

Also, I wouldn't expect that other flavours of warp being - such as Enslavers - are deathless in the same way, at all. Enslavers, at least, are part physical.

True, but we don't know if they leave a warp-soul behind, and since most warp souls end up as daemon kibble, the question is likely to remain unanswered .

Similarly, demons can potentially be destroyed often. Other demons or gods who possess their true name can unmake them with a word.

Wasn't Ghargatuloth unmade on the first occasion by the use of it's True name? It certainly didn't destroy him permanently, although we don't know what happened on the second occasion.

The Eisenhorn books, I believe, suggest that Prophaniti is destroyed, in combat with the inquisitor, though that is of course, from the limited perspective of Eisenhorn, who may be wrong.

True, but Eisenhorn didn't examine the Warp for the remains of Prophaniti (which could have been quickly eaten after it's weakening by something nastier, maybe Cherubael [/joke]).

Additionally, once they're banished to the warp (in combat at least), Demons are usually (though being chaos, nothing is certain) subjected to punishment for a hundred or a thousand years and a day for their failure. This was last mentioned in the demon-hunters codex, and like the above, could be an errant belief on the part of the Inquisition. Though that seems less likely, as it appears to be widely held.

Which makes it as good as a fact in most cases

[NecronLord]

Eating is merely absorbing the soul and it's "Energy"/flavour, it's not destroying it. (As far as I understand it).

Well, the word is typcially 'consume' and I would guess that, at the least, being eaten by a demon/dark eldar etc is the end of your soul as an individual... err... mass of warp enery.

Wasn't Ghargatuloth unmade on the first occasion by the use of it's True name? It certainly didn't destroy him permanently, although we don't know what happened on the second occasion.

I don't know. Of course, I doubt the average, or even, above average, Grey Knight knows enough about demon-making to unmake one. The demon in Eye of Terror has its True Name given to others by Tzeentch as punishment, so it can be used as a means of control or torment without actually destroying the victim.

[andrewgpaul]

When "destroyed" they're sent back to the warp, for a period that varies based on the method of destruction (Force, Nemesis weapons HURT, True names even more so), but no permanent harm is done.
The only instance of a Warp being's permanent destruction was Horus's soul at the hands of the Emperor, nothing else has even come close.

Used to be, a Daemon was banished for 1,000 years and a day if its physical form was destroyed.

[white_rabbit]

could be an errant belief on the part of the Inquisition. Though that seems less likely, as it appears to be widely held.

As I recall either Angron or M'kchan explicitly states that after they serve their time so to speak, they will be back.

Essentially an easier form of banishment since they are so weak they don't need to be cast back using straight psyker energies. Or do some weaker demons actually die and the more powerful the demon is the harder it is to actually kill up to such a point that those who are nigh undefeatable by "normal means" are instead banished back to the warp in order to save time.

Daemons, when they are "killed" do they actually die or is that simply the destruction of their fleshy forms?

I doubt any daemon "dies". Firewarrior gives an interesting look at the fate of fallen daemons who invest too much power in the mortal plane. The Daemonlord "slain" in the novel is reduced to one of the uncountable "frothing, buzzing" minor entities.

If all a daemon is consists of a vortex of "energy" amongst the physics fucking laws of the warp, aligned to one thing or another, and like an eldar soul, powerful enough to retain intellect and self awareness beyond the material realm, then dispersing it is probably enough to "kill".

So getting eaten by another daemon, "destroyed" by the edict of a God, or by their true name being given to another daemon.....

Its interesting, I'd expect that having the true name of another daemon would be quite useful for other daemons. With the example of Eye of Terror, with a Lord of Change's name being given to his peers, I have to wonder if Daemons have more than one "true name", or if there are pronunciations/additional aspects that not even the Daemons themselves are aware of, possibly to truly dispose of a Daemon of such power, the name needs to be used in the warp, and by a being of such power as another Daemon or so forth. Given that all daemons of the Ruinous Powers are part of their Gods, it might be that the really nasty and damaging part of their name is part of their Gods name ?


Otherwise all this Daemons bound by their true names would be up shit creek with their brethren around.


On the material plane as far as the more powerful Daemons go, all we really have is their "word".

Botchulaz claims that "...not even your emperor could..." when threatened with destruction, that his essence would merely return to the warp.

Shaha Gaathon claims that an aged, weak psyker "barely holds a tenth" of his power, and that Janus Darke, a latent, powerful psyker will hold much more.

This is why he claims the depowered Deathsword of Khaine won't be able to destroy him, even though it can actually destroy/consume Daemonic energies, he's only got "barely any of my essence" on the material plane.

Malfallax, a Tzeentchian daemon is forcibly banished by the destruction of its physical form, formed initially from the possesion of a tainted and well prepared psyker, the "severing of its consciousness' link from this host" was apparently seriously traumatic, leaving Malfallax as a gibbering loon for "countless ages". It's only the fucked up nature of the warp that allows him these eons to recover and still affect the real world in time to potentially revenge himself.

Err. The Dark Eldar eat souls all the time.

Indeed, Slaanesh leeches their vitality/spirit/soul even in the midst of the Webway according to the Torturers Tale, although its unclear whether or not they drain energy to revitalise themselves, or they substitute the souls of others. perhaps both given that Asdrubael Vect is at least ten thousand years old, although Eldrad manages that as well, so its not beyond Eldar Technology or psychic ability to extend their lifespan over five times the average.

[NecronLord]

There's a source for the average lifespan being 2000 years?

[Ezekyle Abaddon]

This could be the average for the Seers of the Eldar as they would be able to focus their inate abbilities without taking such risks

[Elheru Aran]

This could be the average for the Seers of the Eldar as they would be able to focus their inate abbilities without taking such risks

Eldrad Ulthran does canonically live from the Fall of the Eldar to sometime around the end of the 41st millennium, and I don't believe he was exceptional aside from being a Farseer of Ulthwe for most of that time. There may be eldar who are more long-lived than others, for whatever reason or other, but most of them have multi-millennia lifespans provided they don't get shot or fucked up. Unless that 2,000-year lifespan query applied to humans rather than eldar, but anyway...