[spaceaddict] Stupid Football hijack

[SCRawl]

In my experience, whenever people try to justify our society's sick over-valuation of sports celebrities, they do it by citing supply and demand. This is an entirely circular argument, since the demand for sports celebrities is a symptom of our society's sick over-valuation of sports celebrities. It's literally like saying that A is justified because of A.

Juggling chainsaws while riding a unicycle is a talent at least as difficult and dangerous as any athlete, yet people who do that live off crumbs in traveling carnivals while people who play (for example) baseball get 50 million dollar contracts. There is no objective reason for this valuation; it is nothing more than an arbitrary social convention.

It all does come down to that, doesn't it? I mean, one can justify a huge salary by saying that it will create additional revenue, but without our bizarre fascination with the cult of elite athleticism that argument never gets started. I shake my head every time I hear about the latest $100 million contract, but what's a person to do? Our society worships the ground that professional athletes walk upon, and I don't see that changing any time soon. (I also shake my head at the person of average means who'll pay thousands of dollars to watch pro sports, but that's another story.)

I remember hearing a proposal a number of years ago. It related to having some sort of amateur draft for academic stars in the same style as athletics. It wouldn't work (and makes no sense, since competitive balance isn't something we try to maintain in the corporate world) but it still struck me as interesting at the time. The idea, I think, would be that we (the population at large) would come to value academic achievement as much as athletic prowess.

[Darth Mortis]

snip.

Ah, I see the change that you do not. How many Sports stars have been busted as of late? 50? I mean 9 Cincinnati Bengals alone for Christ's sake. I think our society is slowly turning on the worship of fame and are now finally sticking them for things they walked away from years ago. Five years ago Mike Vick doesn't even see a courthouse, period. Celebrity worship is on the way out, and you can be damn sure it started with OJ.

We no longer tolerate stupidity from athelete's, and I think you all have to commend the new NFL commish, he's fucking banning ignorant asshole athelete's faster than Wong, and that's hard to do!

To sum it up, we are finally getting away from the cult of celebrity and it's about fucking time.

[SCRawl]

snip.

Ah, I see the change that you do not. How many Sports stars have been busted as of late? 50? I mean 9 Cincinnati Bengals alone for Christ's sake. I think our society is slowly turning on the worship of fame and are now finally sticking them for things they walked away from years ago. Five years ago Mike Vick doesn't even see a courthouse, period. Celebrity worship is on the way out, and you can be damn sure it started with OJ.

We no longer tolerate stupidity from athelete's, and I think you all have to commend the new NFL commish, he's fucking banning ignorant asshole athelete's faster than Wong, and that's hard to do!

To sum it up, we are finally getting away from the cult of celebrity and it's about fucking time.

The point I was making was with respect to how we value the services of elite professional athletes, not how permissive we are towards them. And I think that my point still stands: we'll continue to reward professional athletes lavishly so long as they are worshipped by us. As soon as one of these demigods commits a sufficiently heinous atrocity, however, they become villains in the eyes of many, and subject to the full weight of the courts of justice and of public opinion.

[Darth Mortis]

To sum it up, we are finally getting away from the cult of celebrity and it's about fucking time.

The point I was making was with respect to how we value the services of elite professional athletes, not how permissive we are towards them. And I think that my point still stands: we'll continue to reward professional athletes lavishly so long as they are worshipped by us. As soon as one of these demigods commits a sufficiently heinous atrocity, however, they become villains in the eyes of many, and subject to the full weight of the courts of justice and of public opinion.[/quote]


And my point is that this is coming to an end. It almost seems like society is HUNTING for NFL players who break the law. I mean Tank Johnson didn't even blow over the legal limit for a DUI it still hit the papers.

The problem with the NFL is that they take players from the Ghetto, but they don't educate them, so they retain their parasite friends who continue to bring them down. See Pacman Jones and Mike Vick for examples.

I think the NFL will continue to reward their players with huge salaries, but they are certainly aware that they and their players are not above the law as they were in the 60's-80's.

[Elfdart]

There is no objective reason for this valuation; it is nothing more than an arbitrary social convention.

By what objective standard is Star Wars a bigger moneymaker than The Postman? By what objective standard is one of Van Gogh's paintings worth so much money while another painter's isn't worth the price of the paint and canvas? I don't see how there can be an objective standard applied to something that is purely subjective -as in, what do people find so entertaining that they'll pay money to watch?

[SCRawl]

And my point is that this is coming to an end. It almost seems like society is HUNTING for NFL players who break the law. I mean Tank Johnson didn't even blow over the legal limit for a DUI it still hit the papers.

The problem with the NFL is that they take players from the Ghetto, but they don't educate them, so they retain their parasite friends who continue to bring them down. See Pacman Jones and Mike Vick for examples.

I think the NFL will continue to reward their players with huge salaries, but they are certainly aware that they and their players are not above the law as they were in the 60's-80's.

(Your quotes are a little off there.)

It would appear that we agree about the essentials, except for the notion that the salaries and the immunity are related. They aren't, except insofar as justice is available to the highest bidder, and wealthy professional athletes are made wealthy by getting the big contracts.

[Darth Mortis]

By what objective standard is Star Wars a bigger moneymaker than The Postman? By what objective standard is one of Van Gogh's paintings worth so much money while another painter's isn't worth the price of the paint and canvas? I don't see how there can be an objective standard applied to something that is purely subjective -as in, what do people find so entertaining that they'll pay money to watch?

I agree with this however we seem to be seeing right past the benefits of sporting events. For instance, football at the University of Michigan, where I attended school, sit's over 100,000 paying customers every other Saturday starting in September through the end of November. It actually contributes more to the educational fund in those short 3 months than any donor or fund raising can hope to contribute in an entire year. So there is some value in football at the college level, as for the pro's it contributes taxes for the City, jobs for unskilled and skilled employees, and a boom for the hotel industry. I hardly think a play or a movie have the same impact.

[Darth Wong]

There is no objective reason for this valuation; it is nothing more than an arbitrary social convention.

By what objective standard is Star Wars a bigger moneymaker than The Postman?

Because it made more money. You might want to rephrase your question.

By what objective standard is one of Van Gogh's paintings worth so much money while another painter's isn't worth the price of the paint and canvas?

None. It's a rich person's indulgence and contributes nothing to society at large.

I don't see how there can be an objective standard applied to something that is purely subjective -as in, what do people find so entertaining that they'll pay money to watch?

There can't be. What makes you think I don't hold the same opinion of actors' salaries?

[Adrian Laguna]

I don't see how there can be an objective standard applied to something that is purely subjective -as in, what do people find so entertaining that they'll pay money to watch?

There can't be. What makes you think I don't hold the same opinion of actors' salaries?

Ah, to live in a world where one could go to the movies for two bucks.

[Darth Servo]

Ah, to live in a world where one could go to the movies for two bucks.

Hey!!! I can remember when it was $3 for a movie.

[SCRawl]

Ah, to live in a world where one could go to the movies for two bucks.

Hey!!! I can remember when it was $3 for a movie.

We had $2 Tuesdays when I was in high school. The rest of the time it was around $4 or $5. (This is in Canadian money, and I'm really old.)

[The Yosemite Bear]

dammit why couldn't it be about REAL football not american rules rugby.

that said, I hear the Beckhams are now living in Los Angeles, with Vicky planning a reunion with her former spice girls friends....

[spaceaddict]

In my experience, whenever people try to justify our society's sick over-valuation of sports celebrities, they do it by citing supply and demand. This is an entirely circular argument, since the demand for sports celebrities is a symptom of our society's sick over-valuation of sports celebrities. It's literally like saying that A is justified because of A.

Juggling chainsaws while riding a unicycle is a talent at least as difficult and dangerous as any athlete, yet people who do that live off crumbs in traveling carnivals while people who play (for example) baseball get 50 million dollar contracts. There is no objective reason for this valuation; it is nothing more than an arbitrary social convention.

Maybe because millions of people are willing to pay good money to watch a football game and more want to watch it on tv.The networks in the U.S.
Paid Billions to get the NFL contract. We may live in a society that values sports more than it should,however I can't see fault in the athletes for trying to cash in.

[spaceaddict]

Wait...what? Okay, I'm looking over my own post and I'm finding nothing that matches what you're saying. In fact, I'm finding this:

In my view, national/internationally famous sports stars and movie-stars are in the same boat. They're both grotesquely overpaid, pointlessly worshiped parasites on society.

...which would kind of go against any assertion on my part that their pay is justified, wouldn't it?

You're a lying sack of shit, asshole. You said this:

they completely miss the point that the multi-million dollar stars are *not* representative of sports and/or theater in general

In other words, you claimed that the POINT of this thread was to somehow equate multi-million dollar stars to guys who play baseball in the park on weekends. As I said, strawman.

What the fuck is a strawman in this context? I know what it means legally.

[The Spartan]

*snip*,however I can't see fault in the athletes for trying to cash in.

You've not heard much about what's left of a pro-athlete's body after they retire have you? Football players in particular are often crippled by even a few short years in the game.

[spaceaddict]

*snip*,however I can't see fault in the athletes for trying to cash in.

You've not heard much about what's left of a pro-athlete's body after they retire have you? Football players in particular are often crippled by even a few short years in the game.

That is exactly why athetes should cash in when they can.You must have mis-read my post.

[The Spartan]

*snip*,however I can't see fault in the athletes for trying to cash in.

You've not heard much about what's left of a pro-athlete's body after they retire have you? Football players in particular are often crippled by even a few short years in the game.

That is exactly why athetes should cash in when they can.You must have mis-read my post.

No, I didn't. Athlethes who cash in when they can still run the risk of crippling injuries and many who do so don't make enough money to cover living expenses and the surgeries they invariably need to repair the damage to their bodies.

For fuck's sake, I only played ball in high school and my knees are shot to shit and will probably require surgery, if not outright replacement, at some point down the line. Probably in my 40's or 50's.

[spaceaddict]

Where is my last post? If I didn't know better I would think I am getting fucked because I pissed some dweeb off.

It's there; your connection, the 2500+ lurker situation, or something else is fucking with how you're seeing the forums.

That post is still missing. It bothers me that the mods can see it but it isn't viewable. I still think I am getting fucked by the asshole who tried to lock this thread from the get go.

[spaceaddict]

You've not heard much about what's left of a pro-athlete's body after they retire have you? Football players in particular are often crippled by even a few short years in the game.

That is exactly why athetes should cash in when they can.You must have mis-read my post.

No, I didn't. Athlethes who cash in when they can still run the risk of crippling injuries and many who do so don't make enough money to cover living expenses and the surgeries they invariably need to repair the damage to their bodies.

For fuck's sake, I only played ball in high school and my knees are shot to shit and will probably require surgery, if not outright replacement, at some point down the line. Probably in my 40's or 50's.

I agree with you believe me.The guys who get hurt in high school, college or early in the pros are fucked as far as making it pro. I do think that sports do make opportunities that wouldn't be available otherwise. If you got hurt in college with a scholarship, You could have finished your degree on the scholarship.Like you said, getting hurt in high school has no benefits.

[JLTucker]

Which post? Page one of this thread has all of the posts you have made.

[The Spartan]

I agree with you believe me.The guys who get hurt in high school, college or early in the pros are fucked as far as making it pro. I do think that sports do make opportunities that wouldn't be available otherwise. If you got hurt in college with a scholarship, You could have finished your degree on the scholarship.Like you said, getting hurt in high school has no benefits.

You sure about that? Typically sports scholarships aren't enough to finish a degree, often only being partial payment for a year or two, not a full ride. Those are relatively rare. Also, I'm pretty sure(though not certain) that if you get hurt and can't play anymore they tend to yank the scholarship, leaving you to find loans, grants and academic scholarships.,

[Darth Wong]

In my experience, whenever people try to justify our society's sick over-valuation of sports celebrities, they do it by citing supply and demand. This is an entirely circular argument, since the demand for sports celebrities is a symptom of our society's sick over-valuation of sports celebrities. It's literally like saying that A is justified because of A.

Juggling chainsaws while riding a unicycle is a talent at least as difficult and dangerous as any athlete, yet people who do that live off crumbs in traveling carnivals while people who play (for example) baseball get 50 million dollar contracts. There is no objective reason for this valuation; it is nothing more than an arbitrary social convention.

Maybe because millions of people are willing to pay good money to watch a football game and more want to watch it on tv.

Are you honestly too dense to realize that this is exactly what I was talking about?

[spaceaddict]

In my experience, whenever people try to justify our society's sick over-valuation of sports celebrities, they do it by citing supply and demand. This is an entirely circular argument, since the demand for sports celebrities is a symptom of our society's sick over-valuation of sports celebrities. It's literally like saying that A is justified because of A.

Juggling chainsaws while riding a unicycle is a talent at least as difficult and dangerous as any athlete, yet people who do that live off crumbs in traveling carnivals while people who play (for example) baseball get 50 million dollar contracts. There is no objective reason for this valuation; it is nothing more than an arbitrary social convention.

Maybe because millions of people are willing to pay good money to watch a football game and more want to watch it on tv.

Are you honestly too dense to realize that this is exactly what I was talking about?

No. Maybe I realize the situation as it exists as opposed to some utopian society that only exists in the minds of some.

[Darth Wong]

No. Maybe I realize the situation as it exists as opposed to some utopian society that only exists in the minds of some.

I never said that an American society without sports obsession actually EXISTS, you goddamned idiot. I said it would be better than the moron-worship that we have in reality.

[Keevan_Colton]

A world without fuckwits is a dream of mine, and I am well aware it isnt this world. Let me add you to the list of those to be gassed first when the revolution comes...