ST vs. SW

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EnterpriseSovereign
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Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

"Are you that fucking retarded, or do you bother to watch your screen as you type as opposed to randomly slamming your hands on the keyboard and slathering like an idiot?

Transwarp is faster than hyperdrive, yes. There are also six hubs in the entire galaxy through which a ship can enter it. Hyperdrive is faster than any other form of warp and can be entered from any point in space by a ship with a hyperdrive engine. Not that this is relevant anyway, because the Alpha Quadrant powers (the main players of the series) are not able to use it."

Oh I watch the screen to see what I type. OH S***, you just admited something in ST is better than SW. wormholes anybody? how about Q transporting ships around in mere seconds. Q would do it to amuse himself.
Learn to use the quote function, jackass. And since when did Q intervene in an actual vs conflict? Care to quantify just what Q can do? As for wormholes, only the Bajoran Wormhole has been of any use in ST as it's the only stable one there is.
They might be able to considering how fast they can repair their ships. No it means that 18 ship were near or at earth, with nine more on the way. After all any smart leader would keep atleast 10 ships near their H.Q. to make sure their H.Q. would not be attacked.
What the fuck does that have to do with having ships in the area, or lack of. And the Federation leadership ain't smart, in ST: Generations, the Enterprise-B was the only ship within several light years of Earth.
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Post by chitoryu12 »

How long has it been since we got one of these? I'm betting he'll last under a month. Anyway:
Oh I watch the screen to see what I type. OH S***, you just admited something in ST is better than SW. wormholes anybody? how about Q transporting ships around in mere seconds. Q would do it to amuse himself.
A hub that can be used to go six places in the entire universe? Wow, that is SO much better. You seem to think "faster=better". Wrongemundo. If I developed a car that could travel anywhere instantly, but only one existed, whereas my rival developer created a car that is half as fast, would you say that mine is better, even though it sees little-to-no use and will not be developed on a larger scale or even seen by most of the world for a very long time?
how about Q transporting ships around in mere seconds. Q would do it to amuse himself.


"They have an on board drive, they don't need a massive station to operate. And if the Borg invaded the SW galaxy, they'd need to build a TW hub, you really think they could do that without being discovered in the time it would take to build something that big?

As for the Breen attack, you ignore the fact that at the time, the Earth would have significant orbital defences, not necessarily a large fleet. In Endgame, there were 18 ships in position, with 9 more on the way. Given it takes hours to get anywhere in Federation space, that implies the conduit was there for more than a few minutes."

They might be able to considering how fast they can repair their ships. No it means that 18 ship were near or at earth, with nine more on the way. After all any smart leader would keep atleast 10 ships near their H.Q. to make sure their H.Q. would not be attacked.
Q has never interfered in a war. He has a tendency not to mess with things that could obviously result in a being's death.
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Post by SCRawl »

The Evil Shadow wrote:
Oh I watch the screen to see what I type. OH S***, you just admited something in ST is better than SW. wormholes anybody? how about Q transporting ships around in mere seconds. Q would do it to amuse himself.
(You know, the quote features for this board are far more effective. And you're allowed to use profanity if you want, you won't offend anyone here.)

I'm not surprised that the sort of person who, in this era, holds the position that Trek military hardware is on par with that of the First Galactic Empire, would choose to invoke Q. It's inevitable, as the evidence simply doesn't support that position, requiring just this sort of hand-waving argument. The EU doesn't even need to be tapped; what we see on the big screen thoroughly demonstrates that you're wrong.
The Evil Shadow wrote:They might be able to considering how fast they can repair their ships. No it means that 18 ship were near or at earth, with nine more on the way. After all any smart leader would keep atleast 10 ships near their H.Q. to make sure their H.Q. would not be attacked.
And smart leaders are in ready supply, are they? :lol: Not that it matters; the onscreen evidence indicates that the biggest, baddest Trek ship ever conceived would be squashed like a bug by, say, an ISD.

Wasn't this been done to death, like, last century?
73% of all statistics are made up, including this one.

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Post by ArcturusMengsk »

The Evil Shadow wrote:No, ST was made for the people by the people.
XD
Oh really. funny because you all are using false Canon. ST has books that do stay with true Canon.
Say what? I've used no canon whatsoever thus far aside from Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope. Unless you mean to tell me that's not canon.
Whats there range?
Various estimates peg it between several million kilometers and one light minute. Even the lower end estimates greatly outrange anything seen in Trek.
One shot killing any ST ship?is not going to happen in a real battle.
Hate to break it to you, but it is.
The Cardies might say otherwise since they made a superweapon. ST races know how to travel through time which that skill counts as a super weapon.
You mean the dinky computer-controlled suicide ship? I try to purge latter Trek from my mind as much as possible, but from what I recall that was an anti-ship weapon.

And if time travel were a viable tactic in war, why has it been used only once, by the Borg?
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Post by The Evil Shadow »

"I thought the transwarp coil in a Borg vessel is what was used to enter the transwarp network that is sustained by the hubs, or am I mistaken?"

It used for both the hub and moving the ship on its own.


"The guy's got to be like ten or something. He types like my eleven-year-old brother."

hmm funny microsoft word says i'm far past 12th grade typing.

"Which have precisely the same disatvantages as the hubs, in addition to being occasionally unstable and oftimes unknown. "

That is true pre DS9. During DS9 they find a stable wormhole and then make one.

"He's never interfered before during a war."

mostly true. Q would help feds if asked nicely. or if he wanted to be cheered up.

"Then the Federation must be wanting for intelligent leaders. See the U.S.S. Lakota incident for details."

They are not in need of smart leaders, just not ones who are to protective.
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Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

"And if only what the creator approved counted, then you'd have to lose most of TNG, all of DS9, VOY and ENT, as well as STVII onwards, including many superweapons. Fucking idiot. "

No, ST was made for the people by the people.
and oh I see you start to lose so you name call/flame/cuss me. nice.
That's how it works around here. If you behave like a fucking asshat, you'll be called on it.

ST was created by Gene Rodenberry, just as GL created SW. Fanboy creations don't count.
"Hogwash. Series which lack a clearly defined policy are precisely that - without a canon policy. In the case at hand, however, both series fortunately have clearly defined canon policy - for Star Wars it's all licensed material not bearing the Infinities logo, and for Trek it's the movies and films to the exclusion of all else. "

Oh really. funny because you all are using false Canon. ST has books that do stay with true Canon.
Irrelevant, if official policy says only the live-action stuff counts, then that's all that counts. ST and SW canon policies are NOT the same
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject:

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"And if only what the creator approved counted, then you'd have to lose most of TNG, all of DS9, VOY and ENT, as well as STVII onwards, including many superweapons. Fucking idiot. "

No, ST was made for the people by the people.
and oh I see you start to lose so you name call/flame/cuss me. nice.



"Hogwash. Series which lack a clearly defined policy are precisely that - without a canon policy. In the case at hand, however, both series fortunately have clearly defined canon policy - for Star Wars it's all licensed material not bearing the Infinities logo, and for Trek it's the movies and films to the exclusion of all else. "

Oh really. funny because you all are using false Canon. ST has books that do stay with true Canon.

"And which is also covered in hundreds of thousands of turbolaser emplacements capable of one-shotting any Alpha Quadrant vessel. "

Whats there range? One shot killing any ST ship?is not going to happen in a real battle.
It will when you consider that a TL has hundreds of times (at least) the power of a phaser, and the range in SW is light-minutes, in ST it's a few ship-lengths at most
Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"And if only what the creator approved counted, then you'd have to lose most of TNG, all of DS9, VOY and ENT, as well as STVII onwards, including many superweapons. Fucking idiot. "

No, ST was made for the people by the people.
and oh I see you start to lose so you name call/flame/cuss me. nice.



"Hogwash. Series which lack a clearly defined policy are precisely that - without a canon policy. In the case at hand, however, both series fortunately have clearly defined canon policy - for Star Wars it's all licensed material not bearing the Infinities logo, and for Trek it's the movies and films to the exclusion of all else. "

Oh really. funny because you all are using false Canon. ST has books that do stay with true Canon.

"And which is also covered in hundreds of thousands of turbolaser emplacements capable of one-shotting any Alpha Quadrant vessel. "

Whats there range? One shot killing any ST ship?is not going to happen in a real battle.

"One-episode wonders which have been lost, sure. Weapons which can be built in any meaningful timeframes? Not on your life."

The Cardies might say otherwise since they made a superweapon. ST races know how to travel through time which that skill counts as a super weapon.
Most if not all ST superweapons were destroyed relatively easily. And time travel in the SW universe is not as viable as you think :lol:
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Post by ArcturusMengsk »

The Evil Shadow wrote:It used for both the hub and moving the ship on its own.
Back up.

There are two forms of transwarp: one involves using the hub, the other relies solely on the coils. The latter is, while faster than the warp speeds of the Alpha Quadrant factions, much slower than hyperdrive. The "cross a galaxy in minutes" speeds are attained only through the use of a hub.
hmm funny microsoft word says i'm far past 12th grade typing.
XD, again.
That is true pre DS9. During DS9 they find a stable wormhole
The Bajoran wormhole is stationary, and would be useless save for transporting ships from Bajor to the opening in the Gamma Quadrant.
and then make one.
Watch the episode again and try to notice what part you've left out.
mostly true. Q would help feds if asked nicely. or if he wanted to be cheered up.
Evidence?
They are not in need of smart leaders, just not ones who are to protective.
XD
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Post by ArcturusMengsk »

Wait, I've found the Cardassian superweapon you're referring to:

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Cardassian_ATR-4107

With a yield of 43 gigatons, the only moons it could possibly have destroyed are tiny balls of ice.
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Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

"The guy's got to be like ten or something. He types like my eleven-year-old brother."

hmm funny microsoft word says i'm far past 12th grade typing.
You think that actually means something?
"Which have precisely the same disatvantages as the hubs, in addition to being occasionally unstable and oftimes unknown. "

That is true pre DS9. During DS9 they find a stable wormhole and then make one.
Make one? It exploded when they sent a probe into it, you think that's stable?


"He's never interfered before during a war."

mostly true. Q would help feds if asked nicely. or if he wanted to be cheered up.
And just how would he do that? Has he ever done anything on the scale you suggest?
"Then the Federation must be wanting for intelligent leaders. See the U.S.S. Lakota incident for details."

They are not in need of smart leaders, just not ones who are to protective.
If they were protective, they wouldn't built such crappy ships, and actually use ground vehicles :roll:
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Post by ArcturusMengsk »

Actually, having examined the page about the Dreadnought missile thoroughly, it makes a case against Alpha Quadrant weaponry: if a power such as the Cardassians had to purpose-build a weapon with a threshold of 43 gigatons, then it's obvious that they would not be able to deliver that much firepower with their ships. In comparison to Star Wars vessels, that's nothing.
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Post by The Evil Shadow »

EnterpriseSovereign wrote: Learn to use the quote function, jackass. And since when did Q intervene in an actual vs conflict? Care to quantify just what Q can do? As for wormholes, only the Bajoran Wormhole has been of any use in ST as it's the only stable one there is.

What the fuck does that have to do with having ships in the area, or lack of. And the Federation leadership ain't smart, in ST: Generations, the Enterprise-B was the only ship within several light years of Earth.
A number of times of him intervening have been hinted. Q is as powerful or more so than god. Star Fleet made a stable one in DS9 or do you not remember. Wasn't that the time they had not just been in a huge war?

"(You know, the quote features for this board are far more effective. And you're allowed to use profanity if you want, you won't offend anyone here.) "
yeah I know but its only good for one post. That and I don't cuss much.

All the SW movies count a canon.
The cardies super weapon is made to blow up planets and destroy any ship that gets in the way.
hmm funny in the movies we only see them fire at a range around 1km
fed phasers have a range of 300,000 km. torpedos have a range of 4 million km.

Lasers would not kill a ST ship in one shot as seen in TNG episodes. SW lasers have about the same power of a ST laser. Not omfg level of power.

Because Time warfare is risky too risky for some.
go to lordepa's blog to see what he thinks about SW tech.

ISDs sit there while Trek ships move.

Borg hubs go to more than one place.

"Q has never interfered in a war. He has a tendency not to mess with things that could obviously result in a being's death." Oh really so thats why he let 18 members of the enterprise D die at the Borg's hands.
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Post by ArcturusMengsk »

Are you still going on about the fucking Cardassian Dreadnought missile?

According to the episode in question, the missile contained one thousand kilograms of antimatter and one thousand kilograms of matter. According to [url=http://edwardmuller.com/right17.htm]this[/i] calculator, the resultant explosion would have the equivalent force of 42,960 megatons of TNT - just enough to destroy a very small ice moon of probably no more than a few dozen kilometers in diameter, and significantly less than a single HTL shot.
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Post by ArcturusMengsk »

ArcturusMengsk wrote:Are you still going on about the fucking Cardassian Dreadnought missile?

According to the episode in question, the missile contained one thousand kilograms of antimatter and one thousand kilograms of matter. According to this calculator, the resultant explosion would have the equivalent force of 42,960 megatons of TNT - just enough to destroy a very small ice moon of probably no more than a few dozen kilometers in diameter, and significantly less than a single HTL shot.
Fix'd.
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Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

A number of times of him intervening have been hinted. Q is as powerful or more so than god. Star Fleet made a stable one in DS9 or do you not remember. Wasn't that the time they had not just been in a huge war?
It wasn't stable, it exploded when they sent in a probe, causing heavy damage to the Defiant
All the SW movies count a canon.
The cardies super weapon is made to blow up planets and destroy any ship that gets in the way.
hmm funny in the movies we only see them fire at a range around 1km
fed phasers have a range of 300,000 km. torpedos have a range of 4 million km.
Love the cherry picking of evidence. Despite the stated ranges of ST weapons, we never see them fighting at such ranges.
Lasers would not kill a ST ship in one shot as seen in TNG episodes. SW lasers have about the same power of a ST laser. Not omfg level of power.
You will obviously provide evidence for that now
ISDs sit there while Trek ships move.
Capital ship vs capital ship? I don't think so :roll:
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Post by The Evil Shadow »

ArcturusMengsk wrote:Actually, having examined the page about the Dreadnought missile thoroughly, it makes a case against Alpha Quadrant weaponry: if a power such as the Cardassians had to purpose-build a weapon with a threshold of 43 gigatons, then it's obvious that they would not be able to deliver that much firepower with their ships. In comparison to Star Wars vessels, that's nothing.
The probe or one them in the end made it through the wormhole they created.

43 gigatons of Anti-Matter and Matter is plenty for a small planet, considering the super weapon is smaller than the empires shuttles.

SW small Ships I doubt get that much power, the bigs ships would get around 100-500 gigatons of fire power I think. I not to sure I remember the reactors output.
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Post by The Spartan »

The Evil Shadow wrote:Lasers would not kill a ST ship in one shot as seen in TNG episodes. SW lasers have about the same power of a ST laser. Not omfg level of power.
I'll let the others handle the rest of your nonsense, but this... no limits fallacy much?

One, yes SW 'lasers' are that powerful. Death Star anyone? Hoth asteroid vaporization anyone?

Two, unconcerned about a small opponents outdated technology does not equal immune to any amount of power dumped against their shields. Put it this way, the mirror in my bathroom reflects my laser pointer. Do you think that means that any laser fired at it will reflect and never burn through. (Hint: the answer is no.)

And three, turbolaser =/= laser, in spite of the name. Why? Becase we can see them on screen not acting like lasers, thus they are not.
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Post by The Evil Shadow »

I'll be back when I can with proof.

unlike most of you I can't be here all day.
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Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

The Evil Shadow wrote:
ArcturusMengsk wrote:Actually, having examined the page about the Dreadnought missile thoroughly, it makes a case against Alpha Quadrant weaponry: if a power such as the Cardassians had to purpose-build a weapon with a threshold of 43 gigatons, then it's obvious that they would not be able to deliver that much firepower with their ships. In comparison to Star Wars vessels, that's nothing.
The probe or one them in the end made it through the wormhole they created.

43 gigatons of Anti-Matter and Matter is plenty for a small planet, considering the super weapon is smaller than the empires shuttles.

SW small Ships I doubt get that much power, the bigs ships would get around 100-500 gigatons of fire power I think. I not to sure I remember the reactors output.
Provide sources, idiot rather than baseless speculation :roll:
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Post by The Spartan »

The Evil Shadow wrote:SW small Ships I doubt get that much power, the bigs ships would get around 100-500 gigatons of fire power I think. I not to sure I remember the reactors output.
Oh Jebus, you're just making this shit up as you go along. Where are your calcs to back this up? (Here's another hint, you're wrong)
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Post by ArcturusMengsk »

The Evil Shadow wrote:43 gigatons of Anti-Matter and Matter is plenty for a small planet, considering the super weapon is smaller than the empires shuttles.
If by "small planet" you mean "ball of ice smaller than some counties", then yes, you're right.
SW small Ships I doubt get that much power, the bigs ships would get around 100-500 gigatons of fire power I think. I not to sure I remember the reactors output.
Try two hundred gigatons. A shot. From a light weapon.
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Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

The Evil Shadow wrote:I'll be back when I can with proof.

unlike most of you I can't be here all day.
Nice hasty generalisation fallacy you've got going there. Hint: bring fucking proof when you start something, not some time after :wanker:
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Post by chitoryu12 »

The Evil Shadow wrote:I'll be back when I can with proof.

unlike most of you I can't be here all day.
Unlike most of us, you admit that you have no proof and yet don't concede.
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Post by chitoryu12 »

Sorry for the double-post but:
hmm funny microsoft word says i'm far past 12th grade typing.
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!
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Post by Perseid »

The Evil Shadow wrote:A number of times of him intervening have been hinted. Q is as powerful or more so than god.
Really, when?
The Evil Shadow wrote: Star Fleet made a stable one in DS9 or do you not remember. Wasn't that the time they had not just been in a huge war?

"(You know, the quote features for this board are far more effective. And you're allowed to use profanity if you want, you won't offend anyone here.) "
yeah I know but its only good for one post. That and I don't cuss much.

All the SW movies count a canon.
SW canon policy stats that the movies are G level canon (highest), the EU is C level canon and is only disregarded if it is contradicted by the movies.
The Evil Shadow wrote: The cardies super weapon is made to blow up planets and destroy any ship that gets in the way.
Evidence that the yield is high enough.
The Evil Shadow wrote: hmm funny in the movies we only see them fire at a range around 1km
fed phasers have a range of 300,000 km. torpedos have a range of 4 million km.
I take it you never saw Return of the Jedi. Also please show where these amazing weapon ranges you've come up with are from.
The Evil Shadow wrote: Lasers would not kill a ST ship in one shot as seen in TNG episodes. SW lasers have about the same power of a ST laser. Not omfg level of power.
Not this shit again, SW weapons are not Lasers, the name is merely a legacy from previous weapons.
Even if they were lasers, the power generation capabilities of SW ships is so far beyond that of ST that it wouldn't matter. Don't believe me, look in the AotC:ICS (which by the way is canon as nothing in the book is contradicted by the movies).
The Evil Shadow wrote: Because Time warfare is risky too risky for some.
go to lordepa's blog to see what he thinks about SW tech.
I'll read lordepa's blog when you show that you have read the main site...which should be about the same time as the universe ends, so you'll exuse me if I don't hang around
ISDs sit there while Trek ships move.
Proof of this please
Borg hubs go to more than one place.
Again please provide proof of this
"Q has never interfered in a war. He has a tendency not to mess with things that could obviously result in a being's death." Oh really so thats why he let 18 members of the enterprise D die at the Borg's hands.
Considering the Borg incident was part of Q's point that humans are basically stupid beings that are completly unprepared for what is out there waiting for them, I think your point is null and void.

So are you actually going to come up with something original or are you just going to regurgitate the same shit as other trektards have in the past
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Post by The Evil Shadow »

I tend to keep facts in my head. 8)

Proof of Q being a Q. some of it.


En route to Farpoint, Captain Picard and his crew first meet Q The mysterious and powerful being denounces the human race as barbarians and challenges the crew of the Enterprise to disprove his belief. If Picard and his crew are not persuasive in their arguments, they will be sentenced to death.
Picard defends himself and mankind by explaining that, unlike Q, humans have learned not to prosecute and judge things they don't understand. Hearing the words "prosecute" and "judge," Q announces that he knows humans all too well. He leaves the Enterprise in a blinding flash, stating that "preparations" must be made.
After separating the saucer to protect the families on board, Picard stays behind to face Q. Suddenly, the ship begins shaking as it did when Q first appeared. 21st century courtroom. When the bailiff announces the judge, the crew is shocked to find Q sitting on the bench!

Picard convinces Q that the upcoming mission at Farpoint will be the perfect opportunity to prove his point. Q accepts Captain Picard's proposal but gives him only 24 hours and a reminder that failing this test will mean death for the Enterprise crew.
After assisting the reunion of the estranged aliens, the crew learns that it has passed Q's test.

The Enterprise and crew travel to uncharted territory when a test on the ship's propulsion system backfires and blasts the starship more than a billion light years from their own galaxy.
Traveler a meek, humanoid alien (acting as the propulsion expert's assistant), was the true catalyst for this potential catastrophe.

The powerful Q demands the Enterprise and crew abandon their rescue mission and partake in a deadly game which, according to Q, could result in either "the greatest possible future" for the crew ... or death!
The game involves surviving a confrontation with fanged, animal soldiers created by Q. Strangely, the major player in the game turns out to be Commander Riker who is given Q's power and offered full membership in his continuum. After using his new-found power to save Wesley and Lt.Worf from the hostile creatures, Riker meets with the crew to discuss Q's proposal. After the meeting, Q tempts Riker by telling him that if he joins the continuum, the Commander can use his powers to give his friends anything they want.
Picard having faith in his crew's resistance to temptation and their common sense, urges Riker to accept Q's offer. Riker obliges by turning Wesley into a 25-year-old Starfleet officer, restoring Geordi's vision, creating a female Klingon companion for Lt. Worf and offering Data the chance to be human. However, to Q's disbelief and Picard's pleasure, the crew members decline the gifts because of their disreputable origin. Thwarted again by the integrity and ingenuity of humans, Q disappears, thereby returning Riker to his normal condition.

That is just the skimmed stuff.
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