Warhammer 40k question

[Raj Ahten]

There is something I've been wondering about the 40k universe for some time. In several stories that I've read weapons that have been infused with demons have come up. Just what are the powers that these demon blades can have? Is there such a thing as a 'typical' demon blade?

[Stormbringer]

Just what are the powers that these demon blades can have?

Varies a lot, especially when you take into account tainted artifacts. The most obvious are simply super-powered versions of regular weaponry up to bad-ass instant kill swords or other artifacts. In fact some like the Iron Warriors have daemon possessed artillery!

Is there such a thing as a 'typical' demon blade?

There are a few stock "demon weapons" presented in the Chaos Space Marine codex. Off had there is a armor piercing super-bolter, a sword that does extra damage, and a sword that ignores invulnerable saves. Plus a few God specific weapons. All of those are defined in game terms so they're a bit short on the description.

[Vehrec]

As near as I can tell, Demonblades are simply weapons that can unleash warp based attacks and steal the soul of your enemy, but also try to eat you alive. Some of the listed powers in the Inquisitor rulebook indicate that such blades can also sutain their wielders without oxygen, return to the hand of their owners, banish other demons, inflict wasting wounds, deflect bullets, drain the life-force of those it strikes, thrown, entrance enemies, tear at flesh with unholy hunger, absorb warp-craft, and a host of other abilities.
Basically, they are catch-all magic weapons.

[Connor MacLeod]

there are daemon infused nukes too. I've read about them in Eye of Terror. They evidently at least focus the explosion in one direction (shaped charge nuke) but they might also enhance the blast somehow.

[KlavoHunter]

I always had a neat idea about a Chaos starship captain binding Daemons to his ships' Torpedoes to guide them more unerringly, and probably make them more resistant to point-defense fire.

[Raj Ahten]

Thanks for all the info guys. Shaped charged nukes via demon is a technology I didn't expect to be available!

[white_rabbit]

Thanks for all the info guys. Shaped charged nukes via demon is a technology I didn't expect to be available!

Everything is better with Daemons!

Its not just weaponry, the Chaos marines in particular run lots of stuff off Daemonic energies, although I will say that never having to reload your guns is probably one of the better uses.

[Cykeisme]

Everything is better with Daemons!

Its not just weaponry, the Chaos marines in particular run lots of stuff off Daemonic energies, although I will say that never having to reload your guns is probably one of the better uses.

Is this a general thing for all Chaos Marines, or only certain ones (i.e. followers of a certain Chaos God, or a certain legion)?

I've always wondered why heavy bolters carried by Chaos Marines only had a short belt of linked ammo hanging from the bottom, as opposed to regular Space Marines and Imperial Guard gunners that typically have the ammunition feed leading from a large box..

[NecronLord]

I think the idea was probably due to the limits of the modelling at the time, originally - making a multi-pose model with a belt feed like that would be difficult. However, I think it works - chaos needn't have all that much ammunition, compared to the loyalists; their support facilities, such as they are, are constantly in the warzone (IE, the Eye). Chaos Marines are also unlikely to miss, much. The Imperium has many forge worlds supplying it, and consequently, more war materiel. Or at least, that'd be my idea.

Of course, Chaos has tons of esoteric things like demon guns to make up for it.

[Connor MacLeod]

Don't forget Ben Counter's fetish with weaponry that fires daemons (from daemon-shooting bolters to titan cannons firing daemons. Or rather daemon spawn.)

There are also daemon-guided munitions to varying levels (missile/torpedo ordannce, to bolter shells.)

And its not just weapons that can be imbued with daemons. You can imbue robots with daemons too (I remember that in the Realms of Chaos books. I wonder if I'll ever get around to analyzing those sometime...)

On starships and vehicles daemons also seem to function as AIs (or "machine spriits"). Eye of Terror even has a daemonette serving "Navigator" like functions, at least in the Warp (though other novels have Daemons assisting in warp navigation.)

[Pulp Hero]

So deamons are "machine spirits" for chaos army machines, does that mean the beleif by IoM troops about machine spirits in their machines is also valid? And if so what are those "machine spirits"?

[Feil]

So deamons are "machine spirits" for chaos army machines, does that mean the beleif by IoM troops about machine spirits in their machines is also valid? And if so what are those "machine spirits"?

We don't know. We know that some things definitely do have spirits (Titans do, for one). We also know that some things have artificial intelligences that are thought to be spirits, and may actually have a warp presence (starships, supertanks, etc). We know that some of the things attributed to spirits are nothing of the sort - whether you anoint a chainsword with thrice-blessed chrism or just spray on some WD-40 doesn't make a whit of difference, for instance. Which things have spirits, how often, and to what extent, is one of the unanswered mysteries of the universe.

[Pulp Hero]

So what are Titan's spirits, actual warp deamon type things or what?

[Connor MacLeod]

So deamons are "machine spirits" for chaos army machines, does that mean the beleif by IoM troops about machine spirits in their machines is also valid? And if so what are those "machine spirits"?

No, they can serve a role AKIN to a machine spirit. Its probably cheaper/easier for the Chaos side to summon/bind daemons into machines/ships/vehicles to serve in that role than it is to build/repair/make their own computers and whatnot. And its possible daemons are more flexible (and some having powers probably confers some benefits as well) than most machine spirits the Imperium has access to.

As far as any evidencee I have seen suggests, "machine spirits" for the Imperium are mainly technological (they may be designed to emulate human/animal like functions/behaviour, but they're still devicse.) The closest would be the "mind impulse" technology that is used to connect humans to machines (like titans.)

Smaller objectS (like weapons) probably do not have any sort of computers or AIs or anything like that by nature, except for archaeotch weapons or very rare ones (like Gaunt's Sword of Hieronymo Sondar, which seems to have an intelligencee of its own.) Hell under alot of cases daemons don't seem to be bound to most weapons unless you're a very proficient/powerful Chaos Champion (like a Traitor marine) and even then some Champions may not even have those kinds of weapons.

[Ford Prefect]

The Inquisitor game had some nifty powers to imbue your daemon weapon with; I never, ever passed up the oppurtunity to make it fly, though the idea that it sucked out people's souls was also pretty cool. There was even the chance to make a daemon weapon which allowed you to survive in totally airless environments, such as underwater or in space (it also made you invulnerable to gas based weapons, as I recall).

[Adrian Laguna]

We know that some of the things attributed to spirits are nothing of the sort - whether you anoint a chainsword with thrice-blessed chrism or just spray on some WD-40 doesn't make a whit of difference, for instance. Which things have spirits, how often, and to what extent, is one of the unanswered mysteries of the universe.

This is true if you're talking about a run of the mill chainsword. However, in 40k there are certain weapons, invariably ancient artefacts, that have a sort of mind of their own and accompanying warp presence. In the second Eisenhorn book an AdMech Magos calls it the "anima".

It might be that it's part of the manufacture proses, something either lost to time or a closely guarded secret for fear of the Inquisition, though it should be noted that Inquisitors come in contact with these weapons and don't think anything of it.

I have my own theory. We know that when people come in contact with objects in the physical world they leave an impression of their thoughts relating to it on that can be seen with warpcraft. We also know that objects that are prized or highly used have a very strong warp presence, such that a favourite piece of clothing can even give you a good overview of someone's life. Thus, a really old weapon that has seen a great multitude of users over the centuries would have a lot of warp imprints upon it. I think that over time these imprints meld together and develop into a sort of benevolent warp entity which seeks to assist the user of the weapon, and can actually do this, albeit with subtle methods.

[Connor MacLeod]

Or its simply a matter of transferring ones consciousness/memories into some more technooglical form. The Admech is huge on that sort of thing (Storm of Iron had a Admech guy running a facility who was almost all machine save for a few biological skin components IIRC.) and the "mind impulse" links certainly imply that (I'm thinkin gof the Titan in the last Eisenhorn book here, as well as Pontius Glaw.) That would create a sort of "spirit" in a weapon or device.

Though in most cases, I'm betting that its simply some form of utlra-compact AI or computer. The AdMech/Imperium can put them into shotgun shells or even autogun bullets with sufficient effort (nevermind tank shells.)

[Adrian Laguna]

Or its simply a matter of transferring ones consciousness/memories into some more technooglical form. The Admech is huge on that sort of thing (Storm of Iron had a Admech guy running a facility who was almost all machine save for a few biological skin components IIRC.) and the "mind impulse" links certainly imply that (I'm thinkin gof the Titan in the last Eisenhorn book here, as well as Pontius Glaw.) That would create a sort of "spirit" in a weapon or device.

That would fall under the "part of the manufacture process" theory. However, the attitudes of characters toward these weapons doesn't really seem to fit with this. At the very least, we do know that the entity in the weapon and the user are distinct and separate from each other.

Though in most cases, I'm betting that its simply some form of utlra-compact AI or computer. The AdMech/Imperium can put them into shotgun shells or even autogun bullets with sufficient effort (nevermind tank shells.)

That is a possibility, we know that advanced enough AIs do have a warp-presence. It might be that a sort of non-sentient but still fairly intelligent computer exists in the sword, and it might be that it operates with a sort of subtle mind-impulse. Barbirasater seems capable of seeing openings in the enemy's defences and communicating them to its master, as well as predicting attacks and facilitating the wielder's movements to deflect them. It can even move almost of its own volition, such that the wielder needs to physically force it away if it gets overeager. Eisenhorn even states the sword taught him a trick or two.