Improving the Ferengi

Jark · Post by **Jark** » 2007-08-30 01:27pm

ShadowSonic wrote:I figured the ENT Duras was TNG Duras' ancestor due to the same name, meaning he must have already had a child (since Archer killed him in the end of S2) or he wasn't the direct ancestor of TNG's Duras, maybe his great Uncle or something?

Of course, there's the possibility there is no connection, but since this is a TV show and not real life, what are the odds of that?

Well the possibility exists that there's some relation, but I don't think just using a first name to connect 2 random people who lived 2 centuries apart is solid enough evidence to say they're related in any way. Duras might just be a common name like Steve or John.

Sabastian Tombs · Post by **Sabastian Tombs** » 2007-08-30 07:24pm

Duras is a House name, not a first name.

speaker-to-trolls · Post by **speaker-to-trolls** » 2007-08-31 11:18am

There's no reason he even needs to be an uncle, he could be a cousin of some kind. It's a high-up noble family, after all, they can get quite large (the members of such families tend to want plenty of sons to carry on the family name/take care of business/marry into other families).

Jark · Post by **Jark** » 2007-08-31 12:13pm

Sabastian Tombs wrote:Duras is a House name, not a first name.

I've been checking through the script, was it ever referred to as the House of Duras? I see in the episode Redemption they talk about relatives of Duras

GOWRON
The family of Duras is massing
support... they have many allies
on the Council...

PICARD
But Duras died in disgrace. By
Klingon tradition, his family
should share in that disgrace.

GOWRON
Their corruption has poisoned the
Empire. Honor will soon have
no meaning.

PICARD
Who speaks for his family now?

GOWRON
Lursa and B'Etor... the sisters
of Duras.

In the episode Sins of the Father, we see learn the name of Duras's father

K'MPEC
(apologetic)
Someone had to be blamed. The
warriors who captured the Romulan
ship had learned of the treachery.
But only the council knew whose
security code had been
transmitted. Ja'rod, father of
Duras.

Here is the name of the Duras from the Enterprise episode Judgement

ORAK: I call Duras, son of Toral. (Duras enters) Captain Duras, tell the tribunal about your encounter with the accused.

I can't find anything in the scripts linking them to the same house, or even any mention of a House of Duras. Is there another episode you know of that does?

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-08-31 12:20pm

The Klingon Houses seem to go by the name of whoever is the head of the house at that time, or whoever was the last 'eligable' head of the house. For instance, it was the 'House of Martok', not the house of whoever Martoks father was. I would imagine that the firstborn sons of Klingons would probably be given their fathers name, though there is no real canon basis for that.

lord Martiya · Post by **lord Martiya** » 2007-08-31 03:49pm

I have evidences of boths pratics. For the naming pratic whit the name of the last 'eligable' head we have the House of Mogh: after the death of Mogh the older son and theorical head was Worf, the one in the Council and pratical head was Kurn, but everyone called their family the House of Mogh, not the House of Worf or House of Kurn. And for the naming after the current head, in DS9 the House of Kozak changed name in House of Quark when the Ferengi killed Kozak in a brawl (only officially, because Kozak falled on his own dagger) and the widow of Kozak forced Quark to marry her, making him the head.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » 2007-08-31 04:05pm

Wait, that guy said that ENT Duras' father was named "Toral". Wasn't Toral the name of Duras' bastard son in TNG/DS9?

Maybe it was an in-joke or something.

lord Martiya · Post by **lord Martiya** » 2007-08-31 04:30pm

Yes, they have the same name.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-08-31 05:29pm

lord Martiya wrote:I have evidences of boths pratics. For the naming pratic whit the name of the last 'eligable' head we have the House of Mogh: after the death of Mogh the older son and theorical head was Worf, the one in the Council and pratical head was Kurn, but everyone called their family the House of Mogh, not the House of Worf or House of Kurn. And for the naming after the current head, in DS9 the House of Kozak changed name in House of Quark when the Ferengi killed Kozak in a brawl (only officially, because Kozak falled on his own dagger) and the widow of Kozak forced Quark to marry her, making him the head.

Kurn was adopted by another House and was unaware of his relation to Worf. Worf himself had been found by the Roscenkos (sp?) and raised as their son, so the House of Mogh was pretty much gone in all but name.

lord Martiya · Post by **lord Martiya** » 2007-08-31 06:08pm

For what I know, in DS9 the House of Mogh had lands, ships, people and Kurn as leader and representative in the High Council until the 'treason' of Worf in The Way of the Warrior, and only after this Kurn lose his memory and was adopted by the small House of Noggra. Yes, previously Kurn posed as the son of Lorgh, but when he knew Worf he also knew that they were brothers and sons of Mogh.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » 2007-08-31 07:32pm

Kurn was officially adopted by Lorgh, wasn't he? He said that since he was so young when Mogh died at Khitomer he had been sent to live with Lorgh and was adopted by him, which is why everyone thought of him as Kurn son of Lorgh. Supposedly Lorgh told him the truth about his family at some point.

It's possible that since the Klingons knew Worf was alive and well that they shouldn't just hand over all that the House of Mogh had to other Houses, and just wait for the day that Worf would come back to reclaim it all or something would happen to disgrace the House and the Council could seie everything Mogh had owned.

Being the elder brother, Worf was the one in control of the House of Mogh when he regain the family honor after "Reemption" but since he went back to Starfleet and he has a unique Dual Citizenship thing (which is even more complex due to him also being part of the Federation Starfleet and not just a normal citizen) he left Kurn in charge.

lord Martiya · Post by **lord Martiya** » 2007-09-01 06:16am

Exactly: Worf was the theorical leader of the House of Mogh and Kurn the real leader. And the House still existed when Worf refused to join Gowron in the invasion of Cardassia.