SD Construction

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » 2007-09-01 09:00pm

crohakon wrote:So the ISD is not capable of operating in a planets atmosphere?

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2007-09-01 09:30pm

Wouldn't want to wake up in the morning and see THAT ^

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » 2007-09-01 09:35pm

The Original Nex wrote:Wouldn't want to wake up in the morning and see THAT ^

I know other posters have a mini version in their sig and all, but..

This is the most kickass Imperator image of the last EVER. So I'm posting it again.

lord Martiya · Post by **lord Martiya** » 2007-09-02 04:54am

It isn't exactly a relaxer... Tonight I won't sleep.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2007-09-02 04:59am

Some ISD-sized targets might be atmosphere capable while others are not. The main factor in what makes a ship atmosphere capable would seem to be its repulsors (VSDs were atmosphere capable but could not land, IIRC, and were supposed to be the "largest" atmosphere capable ships.) Its not exactly as if the "mile long" wedge is of just one kind (hangar vs hangarless, nevermind the "mk1" and "mk2" variations..)

Making an ISD amtosphere-capable is probabl ypossible, but it would incur some design/volume limitations (much like making an ISD into a carrier or even a light carrier imposes limits, as opposed to the hangarless designs.)

IIRC the main sources for the "ISDs cant go into the atmosphere" were the essential guides and related sources.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2007-09-02 12:26pm

Darwin wrote:
crohakon wrote:So the ISD is not capable of operating in a planets atmosphere?
*snip badass Star Destroyer pic"

Is that even canon, as it is just production art for a video game that hasn't even been released yet?

Post by **RogueIce** » 2007-09-02 02:29pm

havokeff wrote:Is that even canon, as it is just production art for a video game that hasn't even been released yet?

Watch the trailer. It has an ISD flying around in the atmosphere, before getting yanked down by Vader's apprentice.

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » 2007-09-02 03:24pm

havokeff wrote:
Darwin wrote:
crohakon wrote:So the ISD is not capable of operating in a planets atmosphere?
*snip badass Star Destroyer pic"
Is that even canon, as it is just production art for a video game that hasn't even been released yet?

C-canon as it is a story (non-gameplay) element for a licensed SW game.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2007-09-02 05:20pm

Speaking of the game, does anyone know why it is that an apprentice to Vader seems to spend all his time killing Imperial personnel and destroying Imp military hardware?

Darth Ruinus · Post by **Darth Ruinus** » 2007-09-02 05:43pm

Lazarus wrote:Speaking of the game, does anyone know why it is that an apprentice to Vader seems to spend all his time killing Imperial personnel and destroying Imp military hardware?

Maybe he turned anti-Imperial?

That or Vader ordered him to do it? The whole "You have done well" that Vader says after he brings down the ISD seems to imply to me that it was some type of test.

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2007-09-02 06:20pm

Lazarus wrote:Speaking of the game, does anyone know why it is that an apprentice to Vader seems to spend all his time killing Imperial personnel and destroying Imp military hardware?

Let's see, a Sith Apprentice training his own apprentice, I wonder what he could be planning.

Vader was going to use his apprentice to usurp Palpatine, just like he was planning with Luke. Methinks Imperial personnel reporting on his existence would be detrimental to Vader's plan.

As for the Star Destroyer, probably a rogue Imperial that needed offing.

Darth Ruinus · Post by **Darth Ruinus** » 2007-09-02 06:45pm

Let's see, a Sith Apprentice training his own apprentice, I wonder what he could be planning.

Vader was going to use his apprentice to usurp Palpatine, just like he was planning with Luke. Methinks Imperial personnel reporting on his existence would be detrimental to Vader's plan.

As for the Star Destroyer, probably a rogue Imperial that needed offing.

Actually, your explanation is alot better than mine, you're probably right.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2007-09-02 10:02pm

Surlethe wrote:
crohakon wrote:So... they can enter the atmosphere?
They can enter the atmosphere, but they are not equipped to land and they are capable, by their very presence, of immense environmental damage.

As far as Kuat goes, if my eyes do not deceive me, the artificial ring surrounding the planet looks like it's orbiting r/2 away from the planet, where r is the radius of Kuat. If the width of the ring is r/20 and height a corresponding r/40, then given an Earthlike r = 6e3 km it has a volume of 3e9 km^3. The DSII has a volume of 3e9 km^3, so the two are comparable.

What's far more impressive is the ring around the entire goddamned system. If we're conservative and take that to mean simply equivalent to Mars' orbit (instead of on the edge of the Oort cloud), and assuming an equal cross-sectional area, we get a volume of 6e13 km^3 -- twenty thousand times the volume of the planetary ring or the DSII. If the cross-sectional area is a hundred times greater and the ring is orbiting at Pluto's mean orbital radius, we get 2e17 km^3. That is absolutely ridiculously huge.

Even better, if instead of Pluto we take the Oort cloud, that will increase our estimates by at least three orders of magnitude (this assumes the cross-sectional area does not change) to 2e20 km^3. By comparison, the Sun's volume is 1.4e18 km^3.

One note: I don't trust the picture upon which the above analysis is based because the ring is not casting a shadow.

Note that there are multiple cases of shipyards ringing systems Niven style - DESB mentions that the World Devestators were developed and constructed at one such place after it had been abandoned.

Thats right - construction is so wide spread that they can abandon the things with no problems.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2007-09-03 03:01pm

General Schatten wrote:As for the Star Destroyer, probably a rogue Imperial that needed offing.

Why can't we play an Imperial that actually, you know, goes after the Rebels instead of pirates, random "neutral" factions, and (yet more) rogue Imperials?

The time this game is in may not quite allow that too well, but it's something that's always bugged me.

Warsie · Post by **Warsie** » 2007-09-03 05:39pm

General Schatten wrote: Vader was going to use his apprentice to usurp Palpatine, just like he was planning with Luke. Methinks Imperial personnel reporting on his existence would be detrimental to Vader's plan.

Vader has several other apprentices and didn't have to kill various Imperials to keep it secret

As for the Star Destroyer, probably a rogue Imperial that needed offing.

the SD was mainly intact

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2007-09-03 07:26pm

Surlethe wrote: What's far more impressive is the ring around the entire goddamned system. If we're conservative and take that to mean simply equivalent to Mars' orbit (instead of on the edge of the Oort cloud), and assuming an equal cross-sectional area, we get a volume of 6e13 km^3 -- twenty thousand times the volume of the planetary ring or the DSII. If the cross-sectional area is a hundred times greater and the ring is orbiting at Pluto's mean orbital radius, we get 2e17 km^3. That is absolutely ridiculously huge.

Where was this mentioned, and what was the quote?

Post by **Surlethe** » 2007-09-03 07:59pm

Jadeite wrote:
Surlethe wrote: What's far more impressive is the ring around the entire goddamned system. If we're conservative and take that to mean simply equivalent to Mars' orbit (instead of on the edge of the Oort cloud), and assuming an equal cross-sectional area, we get a volume of 6e13 km^3 -- twenty thousand times the volume of the planetary ring or the DSII. If the cross-sectional area is a hundred times greater and the ring is orbiting at Pluto's mean orbital radius, we get 2e17 km^3. That is absolutely ridiculously huge.
Where was this mentioned, and what was the quote?

I'm trusting Desertfly and Ender, since I don't have access to the books in question. According to the Wookieepedia, though, the drive yards ringing the system is mentioned in the Essential Guide to Planets and Moons.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2007-09-04 10:57am

Doesn't mean, that it is a solid ring. Could as well be a number of docks and space-station, that would form a ring, if connected.

And I hear about the multiple shipyard-systems with rings for the first time, so what are the exact quotes?

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2007-09-04 11:27am

Which edition of the EG? I'm pretty sure I have an older edition here somewheres and I don't remember a specific mention of a system ring, though Kuat is certainly in there.

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2007-09-04 02:19pm

Warsie wrote:Vader has several other apprentices and didn't have to kill various Imperials to keep it secret

Only this Apprentice, Lumiya, and Flint were Sith Apprentices, the others were Dark Jedi. The Sith Apprentice was Vaders first attempt, Lumiya was hidden as a Hand, and Flint was being trained to fight Lumiya for the position of Vader's Shadow Hand and thus hidden from her as well as Palpatine.

the SD was mainly intact

You seem to have forgotten he lit his saber after it stopped moving, most likely meaning he was going inside to seal the deal.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2007-09-05 12:35pm

Surlethe wrote:
Jadeite wrote:
Surlethe wrote: What's far more impressive is the ring around the entire goddamned system. If we're conservative and take that to mean simply equivalent to Mars' orbit (instead of on the edge of the Oort cloud), and assuming an equal cross-sectional area, we get a volume of 6e13 km^3 -- twenty thousand times the volume of the planetary ring or the DSII. If the cross-sectional area is a hundred times greater and the ring is orbiting at Pluto's mean orbital radius, we get 2e17 km^3. That is absolutely ridiculously huge.
Where was this mentioned, and what was the quote?
I'm trusting Desertfly and Ender, since I don't have access to the books in question. According to the Wookieepedia, though, the drive yards ringing the system is mentioned in the Essential Guide to Planets and Moons.

Iron Fist for certain.

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2007-09-05 05:43pm

Which edition of the EG? I'm pretty sure I have an older edition here somewheres and I don't remember a specific mention of a system ring, though Kuat is certainly in there.

The first edition has Kuat with large shipyards based away from the planet built around large spherical facilities.

It appears however the newer version makes use of the planetary ring.

Where a ring construction going around that star comes from I don't know, it may just be a result of Star Wars calling a planet a system though. Although I'm not doubting the Empire has the industrial capacity to construct such a facility.

Some other pictures that I found, somewhat large though.

MonCal ship yards Incredibly small facilities away from the planet
Fondor ship yards ship appears to be merely undergoing final stages of construction outside of the shipyard facility

Kuat would arguably need much more in terms of orbital facilities to be able to compete with the likes of Fondor as it lacks the planet wide industry. The ring could provide the space for such industry to feed the ship yards.

DESB mentions that the World Devestators were developed and constructed at one such place after it had been abandoned.

Weren't the WDs built at Byss? I don't think any of the Dark Empire sources indicate Byss having a planetary ring.

lord Martiya · Post by **lord Martiya** » 2007-09-05 06:12pm

World Devastators were secret superweapons constructed in secret facilities, perhaps created for the objective (like Despayre and Endor for the Death Stars), not normal ships.