Anyone playing WiC demo?

ray245 · Post by **ray245** » 2007-09-02 11:49pm

Medium Choppers are a fun to use, as they are hunters instead of defenders.

AA is for defense usually. I have alot of fun leading the AA into chasing me, until they are ambushed by my armor buddies.

Faqa · Post by **Faqa** » 2007-09-03 05:06am

I think my multiplayer squee was all used up by the Alpha and Beta. Suffice to say the style sends the Dune 2 generation to the dustbin in a very final manner.

I really do have to see if they've toned down the air-whoring that was prevalent earlier.

As for the Single(which is still the reason I buy games)? Frickin kickass, even if a bit on the easy side. It's Ground Control with a SAVE FUNCTION, the lack of which destroys my sanity in that game, especially in long mission. Seriously, GC is begging to be redone in the WiC engine. I'd shell out for that.

I beat the CRAP out of the Normal AI with an AT squad, 2 normal infantries, a Bradley, 3 Light Tanks(forgot to order the last two), two earned M1's and a repair tank. The gas station objective is practically handed to you with the convenient forest concealment and stupid chasing AI. And really, I didn't lose a single unit until I had to hold the Southwest and ran into mortar fire. This is not bragging, it was just ridiculously easy. The AI has very little concept of combined arms. I hope Normal is more reasonably balanced in the full version.

What I love and forgot is that this game rewards NOT turtling. The faster you work, the more points you get. Dick around, or hunker down and you'll probably never get that nuke to end it all. Just keep momentum going.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-09-03 05:08am

Not that most people use nukes properly anyway, so they don't usually end the match anyway. Oh wow, you blew up some guys. Saving those points mean we have no control points held, so ... what?

Faqa · Post by **Faqa** » 2007-09-03 05:27am

I've actually been turning it over, and the only real use I can see for a nuke is to nuke a dropzone, IF you can guarantee a mass respawn in the near future. For the most part, artillery, airstrikes and laser-guided bombs FTW!

ray245 · Post by **ray245** » 2007-09-03 10:56am

Stark wrote:Not that most people use nukes properly anyway, so they don't usually end the match anyway. Oh wow, you blew up some guys. Saving those points mean we have no control points held, so ... what?

Stop the enemy from advancing, and quickly capture other points in the map when then enemy is too distracted looking at the nuke. Send in choppers to stop them from counter-attacking. Since most attacks consist of some vechicles, and when most of the point has been captured by our team, they usually go for armor or infrantry.

Well...that is if your team has any sense to make full use of the nuke. The only effective nuke is to get 3 or more nuke then nuked them to hell.

Lonestar · Post by **Lonestar** » 2007-09-03 11:55am

Stark wrote:Not that most people use nukes properly anyway, so they don't usually end the match anyway. Oh wow, you blew up some guys. Saving those points mean we have no control points held, so ... what?

Man, I hate that. After we've been overrun teammates go "man, I was only 20 points away from a nuke y didn't you give any to me" and they can't wrap their head around me saying "Why didn't you use the TA you had? Ever heard of the phrase 'a weapon not used is one that shouldn't have been built'?"

And then they call me "fag". I love online gaming.

ray245 · Post by **ray245** » 2007-09-03 02:39pm

Lonestar wrote:
Stark wrote:Not that most people use nukes properly anyway, so they don't usually end the match anyway. Oh wow, you blew up some guys. Saving those points mean we have no control points held, so ... what?
Man, I hate that. After we've been overrun teammates go "man, I was only 20 points away from a nuke y didn't you give any to me" and they can't wrap their head around me saying "Why didn't you use the TA you had? Ever heard of the phrase 'a weapon not used is one that shouldn't have been built'?"

And then they call me "fag". I love online gaming.

Well...to some people, it's better if they get a nuke...because they are weak at using those TA. My brother did...well close to no damage with any TA.

So you might as well let them do MORE damage with nuke.

Lonestar · Post by **Lonestar** » 2007-09-03 03:04pm

ray245 wrote:
Well...to some people, it's better if they get a nuke...because they are weak at using those TA. My brother did...well close to no damage with any TA.

So you might as well let them do MORE damage with nuke.

When you are two minutes form the end of the game and he lobs 3 nukes, which means nothing because we can't get a hold of all the control points in that time remaining, someone is seriously misusing resources.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-09-03 06:28pm

ray245 wrote:Stop the enemy from advancing, and quickly capture other points in the map when then enemy is too distracted looking at the nuke. Send in choppers to stop them from counter-attacking. Since most attacks consist of some vechicles, and when most of the point has been captured by our team, they usually go for armor or infrantry.

Well...that is if your team has any sense to make full use of the nuke. The only effective nuke is to get 3 or more nuke then nuked them to hell.

I've seen people struggle with the idea of 'don't drive into the mushroom cloud'. Most of the nukes I see used are either dropped at arty sites or enemy concentrations (ie, the front line) where all it does is blast a pile of guys. The nuke is special because it 'neutralises' a controlled point, so you can use it to save yourself from total domination - but nobody does that. People drop where they think they'll get most points, not where they think it'll help the team. I've played so many games of seaside where nobody EVER captures the damn research centre that I doubt most players even cap points. Hell, I've played games where nobody caps points but me, and I do it by airdropping fucking jeeps. Even with the 'you're about to lose' warning, most idiots just throw their shit into the beach to get killed, even which the research centre is totally unheld.

My attitude is simply that nukes aren't worth it. In the simplest way, they cost nearly two carpet bombs, and carpet bombing in my opinion is BETTER. When you break it down into the half-dozen arty strikes, or dozen napalm strikes, or dozen light tank drops, it's just a 'zomg big bang' that you get by having half your team 'save up' instead of fighting properly.

Every time our team is getting hammered and some guy says 'I have 50 TA going for nuke' it fucking shits me. 50 TA can turn the tide, but NOOOO they want a fucking nuke.

I hear once the enemy has all the control points, nuking one of them will help? Pffft.

People who suck at TA placement should just give their points away. I suck at -most- TA: I'm only consistently good with napalm, A2A an precision arty. A triple napalm can wipe out an infantry player for what, 18 TA? Honestly, the vast superiority of the carpet bombing means even complete lamers shouldn't use nukes - less friendly damage, similar area that's easier to aim, easier to assault through (you can chase the bombs as they hit the ground). As ray245 said though, a lot of idiots do stop playing and say 'whoa pritty nuc' so you can exploit that, I guess.

Skgoa · Post by **Skgoa** » 2007-09-03 07:11pm

I actually had games where my side lost in a few minutes despite taking most points. if you know your are staying in an area its a good idea to stay inside the circles for a while, but IMHO most of the time just killing enemy units is more helpfull for your team than anything else.

I don't get why people safe their points for nukes either. nor do I carpet bomb or call in daisy cutters. I spend my points ASAP, the biggest TA I do is the odd tripple Heavy Artillery Barrage to destroy packs of Heavy AA. (and most of the center of seaside while I'm at it.

) Stark, as Air players we get the recon TA for only 5 points. no one seems to use it.

how do I force fire on ground? another trick to kill infantry fast is to fire a Hellfire on the Bradley/APC that Infantry players often use to ferry their troops to the capture points.

does anyone else wait at the start of a round before ordering units in order to be able to get one more? it takes 25 seconds to gather the additional 800 points needed for 1 Heavy and 4 Medium Helicopters. until now I have not been defeated with that setup, even people who go for Medium only don't stand a chance. I actually enjoyed an air superiority role more than close air support in beta, but since there is no teamplay and mostly stupid teammates on public servers, I have to kill as many enemy ground units as possible.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-09-03 07:24pm

Holy shit yes, the recon TA is great (the warmup is a bit long, but it's not really that important). I don't use it much, because it turns out people are so stupid if you park a scout chopper right over the opposite edge of the bay nobody shoots it down, even though you can see half the enemy spawn area.

As air I usually want to immediately get into the enemy spawn area and start fucking them up, so I spawn as soon as I can. Ironically, people will complain at you if you don't spawn as quickly as you can: particularly after being wiped out, it's worth waiting 20-30s to get a larger load than deploy a useless two-chopper squad... but everyone cries 'zomg where is teh air defence'.

To force-fire you use the 'attack ground' option, which I think is 'T'. There's a button on the bottom-right UI for it. And parking a unit in a control point is a constant stream of TA, which can be very useful - as air I often invest in airborne units to hold some rear-area, just to get TA for fortification. They quickly pay for themselves, and god knows nobody else on a pub server will do it.

Thunderfire · Post by **Thunderfire** » 2007-09-04 05:47am

I mostly use my TA for unit drops and recon. Very effective with a light tanks + Heavy/medium chopter force which raises hell in the enemy backyard.

Skgoa · Post by **Skgoa** » 2007-09-04 07:00am

Stark wrote:Holy shit yes, the recon TA is great (the warmup is a bit long, but it's not really that important). I don't use it much, because it turns out people are so stupid if you park a scout chopper right over the opposite edge of the bay nobody shoots it down, even though you can see half the enemy spawn area.

yes, but unfortunatly it costs points that could be spend on more firepower.

Stark wrote:As air I usually want to immediately get into the enemy spawn area and start fucking them up, so I spawn as soon as I can.

I'm to afraid of Heavy AA to do that.

Stark wrote:Ironically, people will complain at you if you don't spawn as quickly as you can: particularly after being wiped out, it's worth waiting 20-30s to get a larger load than deploy a useless two-chopper squad... but everyone cries 'zomg where is teh air defence'.

people will complain about anything. I have had people cry for air cover while being in the middle of five Heavy AA and not even shooting at them...

Stark wrote:To force-fire you use the 'attack ground' option, which I think is 'T'. There's a button on the bottom-right UI for it. And parking a unit in a control point is a constant stream of TA, which can be very useful - as air I often invest in airborne units to hold some rear-area, just to get TA for fortification. They quickly pay for themselves, and god knows nobody else on a pub server will do it.

hm, I'm going to try that right now...

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2007-09-04 07:04am

It's so funny the amount of people that don't seem to realise that infantry can shoot down helicopters. I just rack up the points from my infantry hidden in forests as air guys fly right over me.

My kit selection is a bit annoying though. I love being support and raining death down on people from afar, but I play a lot better and win more when playing as infantry.

Laughing Mechanicus · Post by **Laughing Mechanicus** » 2007-09-04 07:40am

I think I've got the hang of infantry now, and they are really satisfying when used well. I typically end up going for the Research Centre from either side, using the trees as cover. As a bonus, usually some air player will come shmoozing over that forest looking to get into their opponents spawn area, and I can do quite a bit of damage. I've killed a full group of Medium Gunships before now when they stopped to try and kill me.

I spend pretty much all my TA on airborne infantry. In some games I've had almost as many airborne infantry secreted about the enemies hindquarters than I've had front line soldiers. People just don't seem to know about the mini precision artillery strike airborne can call in, so they lose 2-3 support units to it, then just think 'huh, shit happens' then go sit right back in the same place again and get whacked as soon as it's recharged.

The only common threat to the airborne hiding in the forests are choppers, and they don't even seem to really care. Usually even if they spot you they just fire a few bursts then bugger off, as they say on the internets I'm in their base killing their dudes, not to mention lighting them up for anyone with TA to spare but they just wander off to find some tanks. Of course, if they do hang around they usually just sit there lazily trying to waste my guys (remember you can reinforce infantry while they are under attack), and they get an air-to-air strike for their trouble.

I also love playing as armour, but it only works if you've got some competent anti-air players backing you up.

ray245 · Post by **ray245** » 2007-09-04 12:57pm

Exactly, any armor attacks with AA support basically makes you unstoppable.

Only thing is, the AA guy will usually scare the choppers from attacking, and end up with less points and score. Unless you are really INTO teamwork.

But the real decent AA unit should be medium choppers, because they are the only unit that is FAST enough to chase down heavy choppers.

Anyway, is anyone goind to form a clan?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-09-04 06:19pm

Has anyone noticed that in the demo very few people use the Q-menu, or acknowledge or even notice the Q-menu request/indicators? You can be supporting armour with choppers, and some heavy AA will rumble up. You can drop an 'attention' or 'need ground assault' or 'need arty' on that AA: nobody will kill it. Even when the armour guy is screaming about the choppers killing him, they won't take a second to pop the AA so I can support them.

I've seen people derided for moving their 5-medium choppers away from a group of 3-mediums. This was right after the 5-squad used their stingers to wipe out some heavies: they had no A2A missile and had taken damage. Apparently, he should have let his squad get wiped out - those mediums were clearly a huge threat to in infantry down there, after all!

Skgoa · Post by **Skgoa** » 2007-09-04 06:22pm

he can allways take some medium artillery to the front, they are great when covered by tanks.

I'm still looking for people to play with on a regular basis, but I have a project going on at the moment and don't know how much time I will have when the new semester starts in october.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-09-04 06:28pm

Skgoa wrote:he can allways take some medium artillery to the front, they are great when covered by tanks.

What? Who can? When?

Laughing Mechanicus · Post by **Laughing Mechanicus** » 2007-09-04 06:31pm

Stark wrote:Has anyone noticed that in the demo very few people use the Q-menu, or acknowledge or even notice the Q-menu request/indicators? You can be supporting armour with choppers, and some heavy AA will rumble up. You can drop an 'attention' or 'need ground assault' or 'need arty' on that AA: nobody will kill it. Even when the armour guy is screaming about the choppers killing him, they won't take a second to pop the AA so I can support them.

It especially annoys me when they ignore requests for repairs. Last round I played some support player was trundling around a group of no less than three repair vehicles. But, of course, those were his own private repair vehicles and you can bet my medium choppers (the only thing keeping them alive) nor the heavy armour player nearby were getting any help from them at all. If I'm armour or air I usually end up TA requesting a couple of light transports just so I can repair my vehicles with any reliability.

Oh yeah, it's good fun if you can time dropping flares early enough so that the opening volley of AA missiles from enemy medium choppers all impotently spiral past your own medium choppers.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-09-04 06:45pm

Yeah, the effect seems to last after the flares have hit the ground, so you can avoid the whole lot if the shooter isn't paying attention. And what am I saying: of COURSE they're not.

I've honestly seen a support player drive around with FIVE repair vehicles and a single medium AA... and STILL ignore repair requests. He was hovering around waaaay at the back, where there was nobody, so fuck knows what his plan was.

ray245 · Post by **ray245** » 2007-09-05 01:57am

Stark wrote:Has anyone noticed that in the demo very few people use the Q-menu, or acknowledge or even notice the Q-menu request/indicators? You can be supporting armour with choppers, and some heavy AA will rumble up. You can drop an 'attention' or 'need ground assault' or 'need arty' on that AA: nobody will kill it. Even when the armour guy is screaming about the choppers killing him, they won't take a second to pop the AA so I can support them.

I've seen people derided for moving their 5-medium choppers away from a group of 3-mediums. This was right after the 5-squad used their stingers to wipe out some heavies: they had no A2A missile and had taken damage. Apparently, he should have let his squad get wiped out - those mediums were clearly a huge threat to in infantry down there, after all!

Well usually, it takes too long for AA vechicles to reach the tanks, unless t here is some medium choppers around.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-09-05 02:04am

What? I mention two things - people not using Q-menu, even to save themselves, and players decrying others for husbanding their units for battles they can actually win. How is that relevant to the time it takes AA units to reach tanks?

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2007-09-05 02:38am

Aaron Ash wrote:It especially annoys me when they ignore requests for repairs. Last round I played some support player was trundling around a group of no less than three repair vehicles. But, of course, those were his own private repair vehicles and you can bet my medium choppers (the only thing keeping them alive) nor the heavy armour player nearby were getting any help from them at all. If I'm armour or air I usually end up TA requesting a couple of light transports just so I can repair my vehicles with any reliability.

Oh yeah, it's good fun if you can time dropping flares early enough so that the opening volley of AA missiles from enemy medium choppers all impotently spiral past your own medium choppers.

I personally cant understand that mentality amongst some support players. When I play support, going for the AA/Repair option instead of Arty, I repair every single allied vehicle I come across. The TA flow from fixing allied units is so goddamn juicy that I gladly spend some of my time to fix 'em.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-09-05 02:42am

Yeah, repair and fortification give you score and TA for basically nothing. I don't understand why it's not more popular - with a humvee I usually win the 'repair' credit for a match... but repairing my bradleys.