To Shep and the Drakafic guys: After the Domination Falls

[Big Orange]

No, Janissary tanks run on petrol ICEs - I'm pretty sure it's impractical to use a steam engine for a tank, as you need a good power-weight ratio to move all that armor around. However, their APCs and trucks run on cheaper steamer engines.

I wonder if the Janissaries and CF soldiers alike go around on horses and they also use horse drawn carriages to supplement their supply convoys or combat formations? They don't sound so horse heavy as the Nazi Germans, but the Domination's armies should be somewhat more archaic in comparison to the fully geared up US Military of the later war years. And steampowered vehicles still seem rather quaint and I doubt they'll fare very well on the Belarus/Ukranian steppes in the depths of winter...

That's the thing - they ARE underrated. The Janissaries are, in equipment and basic training, at least, very much similar to equivalent Allied troops, with lots of SMGs, semi-auto carbines and rifles.

A minority of the frontline Janissary formations are perhaps pound to pound better armed, experienced and equipped than most of their opposition in Europe, playing a integral role in the Domination's initial military successes against the regional powers such as Soviet Russia and Fascist Italy, despite being secondary troops.

On the other hand, they don't get all the shiny toys, though, and less support, and are used in more tactically and strategically primitive ways, with head-on assaults into the enemy to 'soften them up'. And in many ways, head-on assaults *AREN'T* so obsolete and suicidal as they're portrayed as being - Marina had a nice and in-depth article on how the frontal assault was an effective plan of attack throughout history, which I fear is lost now with DS' hard crash. After all, if you have more men than the enemy, and more momentum behind your men's frontal attack, they will, more likely than not, break the enemy.

The fact that the Draka don't care too horribly much about their slave-soldiers' lives makes this tactic all the more deadly effective, really.

So they're kinda of like the Imperial Japanese Army only with better AFVs, better infantry weapons and more solid logistics? I do wonder how they're so fanatical to fight dearly for their owners, if they're slaves, but Zor did mention about Janissaries getting far more privileges than regular serfs. And there has to be some Drakan officers that use them with more strategic finesse and comparative care, not frivolously throwing away hundreds of men to take a small ridge all the time - they're not playing hero, they're just sparing enough good soldiers for later battles and aiming at killing far more enemy troops than their own, even if they are "just" serfs.

As said, the Draka only have so much in the way of Citizens, and therefore they have to make the best use of them. This is especially effective for them, seeing as they don't have to keep nearly all their female population back on "The home front" to keep producing munitions and such like every other nation, as they have their serf population to do it for them.

Who is the highest ranking woman? As mentioned before, you should really flesh out the personalities of all these high ranking Drakans, rather than have this generic blob of 2D baddies...

[KlavoHunter]

I wonder if the Janissaries and CF soldiers alike go around on horses and they also use horse drawn carriages to supplement their supply convoys or combat formations? They don't sound so horse heavy as the Nazi Germans, but the Domination's armies should be somewhat more archaic in comparison to the fully geared up US Military of the later war years. And steampowered vehicles still seem rather quaint and I doubt they'll fare very well on the Belarus/Ukranian steppes in the depths of winter...

Nay on the horses (pun, lol). Sometime in the 1930s, the Janissary Corps is fully motorized. There's sufficient trucks for the Draka to push their war forward, rather than relying on horse transport like the Germans historically did. Remember, this is the Dominate - they have FAR more industrial potential than Germany ever did. They have the ability to create endless masses of simple autosteamer trucks on serf-served Combine assembly lines.

You have to understand, though, steam engines in this timeline were more heavily developed and used than in OTL - Autosteamers were the way to go up until WW1 or so. The big changeover to ICE engines came after WW1, when Ford, who had been producing ICE aircraft engines (which had a higher power-weight ratio than Triple-Expansion Steam Engines), combined their existing expertise in building autosteamers on assembly lines with the newer ICE engines, and basically re-invented automobiles.

The Draka are the people who stick mainly with their well-developed steam engines, because, frankly, they're far easier to build than an ICE engine. Why would a Combine bust down their lucrative autosteamer production line to convert to ICE, when they would need to retrain all their serfs, and have all this trouble in the process of starting up new production, when they can just keep on making the same basic autosteamer truck that they have been for the past decade?

Thus why the Draka are actually sort of behind in ICE engines, causing the slowing of their previously highly-mobile armor after 1936's Hond III uparmor, and the even worse Hond IV which doesn't have the engine power to move as anything other than a heavy tank until 1942 when they reverse-engineer a Soviet Diesel engine.

A minority of the frontline Janissary formations are perhaps pound to pound better armed, experienced and equipped than most of their opposition in Europe, playing a integral role in the Domination's initial military successes against the regional powers such as Soviet Russia and Fascist Italy, despite being secondary troops.

A decent majority of early-war Janni formations will be of excellent quality, make no mistake. But as they get worn down in brutal fighting in Russia (Made even worse by the Janni medical service, which isn't very good), the units have to be reformed from new recruits, which degrades their quality.

This becomes worse as the war goes on, as the "Trusted" Janissary stock from the Police Zone becomes more and more depleted, and they have to rely on less-reliable Janissary levies from the more recent conquests.

So they're kinda of like the Imperial Japanese Army only with better AFVs, better infantry weapons and more solid logistics? I do wonder how they're so fanatical to fight dearly for their owners, if they're slaves, but Zor did mention about Janissaries getting far more privileges than regular serfs. And there has to be some Drakan officers that use them with more strategic finesse and comparative care, not frivolously throwing away hundreds of men to take a small ridge all the time - they're not playing hero, they're just sparing enough good soldiers for later battles and aiming at killing far more enemy troops than their own, even if they are "just" serfs.

Yes - Janissaries get privileges that ordinary serfs don't, which is one reason for them to fight. Two, the Draka are pretty cunning - the Janissaries get a direct cut of the plunder from those they defeat, so they have an incentive to fight, and fight hard.

Besides which, by 1940, the Draka have, what? Their Police Zone serf-stock bred 8 generations into slavery? The serfs literally don't know that there is another way of life. It's just how things have always been - they're going to be loyal. I realize this is going to be hard to accept, as a person who was born into freedom and constantly taught about the rights of man and the power of the human spirit to resist oppression. But by now, the serfs *ARE* going to believe it. The Draka are good at what they do.



Now, don't get me wrong, there ARE going to be some stupid Draka officers who just throw away their Janissaries' lives for minimal gains. They're a minority, and would probably be weeded out for incompetence by their peers.

The Draka - hell, any commander of any military from any time and any nation - is going to want to kill as many of the enemy while losing as few of his own as possible. They're going to try to avoid waste of Janissaries. After all, Janissaries surviving this battle victorious can be used in the next, rather than all your Jannis ending up dead now and Citizens taking those bullets later.

So, yes, they would be attempting to conserve their Janissaries - but losing them just isn't very much of a blow, really. They'd rather not have to send "We Regret To Inform You..." letters back home to the plantations to tell Ma and Pa Draka why their boy died, when 10 Janissaries could have done it for him.

Who is the highest ranking woman? As mentioned before, you should really flesh out the personalities of all these high ranking Drakans, rather than have this generic blob of 2D baddies...

If I'm not mistaken, the highest ranking woman is Archon Olufa Palme. (Edit: According to Evil, her first name is supposed to be Edwina. Hmm.)

On the other hand, yes, you ARE right. We don't have any personalities up at the top. We're going to work on that - Shep's putting together a Create-A-Snaketm spreadsheet to give us the randomly-generated basics of a Draka. From there, we can start creating personalities...

[MKSheppard]

James Hermansson

Born October 8, 1891

Inducted into the Drakian Army on August 5, 1909

Dates of Rank:
E1 Junior Monitor August 5, 1909
E2 Monitor November 3, 1909
E3 Senior Monitor June 10, 1910
E4 Junior Decurion November 2, 1911
E5 Decurion December 4, 1912

Inducted into OCS June 2, 1913

O1 Junior Tetrarch August 31, 1913
O2 Senior Tetrarch May 28, 1914

Re-Enlisted for Second 5 Year Term of Service July 10, 1914. (poor bastid; then again, he'd be recalled anyway)

O3 Centurion April 2, 1916
O4 Cohortarch March 2, 1918 (Battlefield Promotion)

Allowed to be released from Army: June 2, 1919

EDITOR'S NOTE: My "Roll a Snake (TM)" sheet says that the highest rank he achieved was an O3, but I decided to bump him up another grade, because of WWI. It said that he left instead of seeking a third term of service; so he was released in June 1919, as the Draka finally reached peace.

He has a talent for learning languages, and can quickly master them in a relatively fast time. He is however quite proud of himself, and has an obsession with compulsively vowing to screw over people who he feels have wronged him. This has led to him rising quite fast in the Drakian bureaucracy, postwar, as he is a master of paper warfare. He's made quite a lot of enemies, though.

As of Fall 1941, he's fifty years old and......

Do any of you have any suggestions for where this guy should slot into, or various improvements for first name, etc?

---------------

Basically, the way I imagine it is:

Upon reaching 18 every Drakian male (women are drafted from 1905 onwards); is subject to a draft lottery; which is designed to keep the yearly draft from draining away ALL of the young citizens who come of age each year. Basically, between 18 and 21, you WILL be drafted for a five year term.

(The Draka aren't making the mistake of a two year term; where people who are just at the point of becoming effective soldiers get released, causing them to spend their entire second year to train replacements)

You get sent to Basic as an E1, and upon completing it, you get insta-promoted to E2.

It's typically expected that you'll reach roughly E-4 to E-5 Rank during your mandated 5 year term, unless you're an incompetent.

E-5 through E-6 ranks are seen as a stepping stone to OCS; basically, if you show good leadership skills as an Sergeant equivalent, you get the option of OCS.

At the end of your five year term you get the option of re-upping for a second five year term. However, only about 30% of all Draka chose to stay in for a second term (this is based on USMC retention rates in 1996 but given a 10% boost).

If our lovely Mr. Hermansson had chosen to stay in, this would be his future record:

O5 Junior Merarch January 14, 1927
O6 Senior Merarch June 22, 1931

1st General Officer Promotion Board May 26, 1936 (Selected)

O7 Junior Chiliarch May 27, 1936 (45 years old)

Basically, the Drakian military looks a lot like the Israeli military at the lower levels; where you have E4s and E5s walking around with only three years of experience.

[Pablo Sanchez]

A decent majority of early-war Janni formations will be of excellent quality, make no mistake. But as they get worn down in brutal fighting in Russia (Made even worse by the Janni medical service, which isn't very good), the units have to be reformed from new recruits, which degrades their quality.

But I assume that janissary units in general are going to suffer from extremely inconsistent morale and poor initiative. Say, a Janni unit that receives orders will carry them out to the letter rather than adapt to changing circumstances, and in an enemy breakthrough Janni units will react unpredictably. Like a unit might make suicidal breakout attempts until it's completely destroyed, or stay completely immobile and fight to the death even if a breakout would have been advisable, or succumb to mass panic instantly and run up the white flag, depending on the direction of the wind that day.

Whatever the virtues of the Janissary system, it's going to encourage the specific aforementioned vices even more severely than the early war Soviet Army.

[KlavoHunter]

But I assume that janissary units in general are going to suffer from extremely inconsistent morale and poor initiative. Say, a Janni unit that receives orders will carry them out to the letter rather than adapt to changing circumstances, and in an enemy breakthrough Janni units will react unpredictably. Like a unit might make suicidal breakout attempts until it's completely destroyed, or stay completely immobile and fight to the death even if a breakout would have been advisable, or succumb to mass panic instantly and run up the white flag, depending on the direction of the wind that day.

Whatever the virtues of the Janissary system, it's going to encourage the specific aforementioned vices even more severely than the early war Soviet Army.

You're not entirely correct on this.

Janissary formations are led by Citizen officers. I'm not quite sure at what level they start appearing. Personally, I'd guess at the Century (Company) level, but we could have Citizen officers for the Janissaries all the way down at the Tetrarchy (Platoon) level.

And this, much like the Indian troops in British service, makes the Janissaries still rather tactically flexible. Morale starts to collapse, though, after their Citizen officers are killed in action. And once the Janissaries start really running out of officers to direct them, yes, we are going to see indecisiveness on their parts - after all, nobody really has authority to tell everyone else what to do The Janissaries are trained to function in a hierarchical environment, not some officer-less Communist military wet dream. They just don't think to take the initiative beyond "Hey, we could circle around that side of the wall to flank that machine-gun, instead of going in head-on!"

[Big Orange]

Nay on the horses (pun, lol). Sometime in the 1930s, the Janissary Corps is fully motorized. There's sufficient trucks for the Draka to push their war forward, rather than relying on horse transport like the Germans historically did. Remember, this is the Dominate - they have FAR more industrial potential than Germany ever did. They have the ability to create endless masses of simple autosteamer trucks on serf-served Combine assembly lines.

The Janissary Corps being fully motorized with archaic steam powered trucks would have its advantages and disadvantages, but I wouldn't be surprised that in certain circumstances (like pushing up through the high Georgian passes) the Domination's army units would still use hardy pack mules and horses if the autosteamers have serious problems going along very harsh mountain roadways and narrow, rocky dirt tracks (or get snowed in). And some Drakan recon units (both Janni or CF) would often be mounted on horseback as well, being more low key than armoured cars, jeeps and motorbikes...

Thus why the Draka are actually sort of behind in ICE engines, causing the slowing of their previously highly-mobile armor after 1936's Hond III uparmor, and the even worse Hond IV which doesn't have the engine power to move as anything other than a heavy tank until 1942 when they reverse-engineer a Soviet Diesel engine.

In the sadly temporarily defunct Writer's Bible it implicitly stated that the Domination had a border skirmish with the Soviet's in 1937 (why didn't it end in full invasion?) and that is more than enough time to reverse-engineer captured Soviet diesel engines, but I guess it took a long time
until 1942 for the Domination to fully upgrade their massive tank force with more reliable diesel engines. And while they'll certainly be behind everybody in the wide use of ICE engines, their aircraft tech would initially be comparable to Russia, Japan and Germany (but they'll never be ahead of Britain or America in aviation) so they could adapt their competent aircraft engines for their Hond tanks instead.

A decent majority of early-war Janni formations will be of excellent quality, make no mistake. But as they get worn down in brutal fighting in Russia (Made even worse by the Janni medical service, which isn't very good), the units have to be reformed from new recruits, which degrades their quality.

This becomes worse as the war goes on, as the "Trusted" Janissary stock from the Police Zone becomes more and more depleted, and they have to rely on less-reliable Janissary levies from the more recent conquests.

The Janissary Corps at their height would easily be comparable to the fully mortorized elements of the German Heer and Waffen-SS from 1940 to 1943, but their Red Army opposition would go through a similarily harsh attrition rate as well and I doubt the Soviet high command would care about a Red Army conscript anymore than their Drakan counterparts would about a Janissary trooper (although as said before, Drakan/Soviet commanders aim at keeping their army units intact, trying to inflict more damage on the other side). How bad is the medical care for Janissaries? I wouldn't be shocked if Red Army medical care was overall just as dreadful...

It would be getting pretty nasty for Citizen Force alone, let alone for Jannis, with the WarDir recruiting Drakan citizens who are either younger adolescents or late middle aged. The Janissary Corps would also draft serfs from unsuitable age demographs as well, if the WarDir kept concentrating on recruiting from the more “assimilated “ serfs and then get desperate enough to make Eurasian POWs into Janissaries...

Yes - Janissaries get privileges that ordinary serfs don't, which is one reason for them to fight. Two, the Draka are pretty cunning - the Janissaries get a direct cut of the plunder from those they defeat, so they have an incentive to fight, and fight hard.

As said earlier, I wonder if you get serf engineers and scientists? Personal man servant serfs or serfs in administration must be highly priviliged and educated as well (think Posca from Rome).

Say, a Janni unit that receives orders will carry them out to the letter rather than adapt to changing circumstances, and in an enemy breakthrough Janni units will react unpredictably. ---- Whatever the virtues of the Janissary system, it's going to encourage the specific aforementioned vices even more severely than the early war Soviet Army.

But this is where the Citizen Force comes in, where you have first class soldiers who act semi-independently and are good at seizing the initiative, while their Janissary colleagues add extra numbers to massed attacks, hold the line, suck up most of the counter attacks and follow up the more dynamic Citizen Force breakthroughs. And I wouldn’t say the Janni brigades would be anymore useless at adapting on the battlefield than any Red Army unit would (is the Red Army in better shape than it was in the OTL, with no loony like Stalin bumping off half the competent officers and even NCOs?).

[KlavoHunter]

The Janissary Corps being fully motorized with archaic steam powered trucks would have its advantages and disadvantages, but I wouldn't be surprised that in certain circumstances (like pushing up through the high Georgian passes) the Domination's army units would still use hardy pack mules and horses if the autosteamers have serious problems going along very harsh mountain roadways and narrow, rocky dirt tracks (or get snowed in). And some Drakan recon units (both Janni or CF) would often be mounted on horseback as well, being more low key than armoured cars, jeeps and motorbikes...

You still are caught up in the idea that "steam = obsolete, lol!". When it's not. The Draka (and for that matter, much of the rest of the world) have refined steam engines the way that ICE engines were refined OTL.

But that aside, yes, there probably would be some horse-mounted units for various reasons, and there ARE dedicated mountaineer units in the Citizen Force. It just wouldn't be a Germany-like case of "They're FORCED to use pack mules and such because they don't have enough trucks".

In the sadly temporarily defunct Writer's Bible it implicitly stated that the Domination had a border skirmish with the Soviet's in 1937 (why didn't it end in full invasion?) and that is more than enough time to reverse-engineer captured Soviet diesel engines, but I guess it took a long time until 1942 for the Domination to fully upgrade their massive tank force with more reliable diesel engines. And while they'll certainly be behind everybody in the wide use of ICE engines, their aircraft tech would initially be comparable to Russia, Japan and Germany (but they'll never be ahead of Britain or America in aviation) so they could adapt their competent aircraft engines for their Hond tanks instead.

Defunct? Guess again, Shep has new hosting. http://www.stardestroyer.net/Armour/She ... index.html

As for the precise state of Drakian ICE development, I'm not the expert.

However, the primary AFV engine used by the Draka is a copy of the American.... oh, let me just quote it.

Other changes to the design involved replacing the original French weapons with Drakian-produced weaponry; and replacing the twin engine design of the Char 2C, in which each track was powered by it's own 200/250 hp engine via an electrical transmission with a single Kurenwor Lion liquid cooled V12 engine providing 400 hp.

In service, the Lion proved to be remarkably trouble-free, which was not surprising, considering that it was an illegal copy of the American Liberty 12 engine provided to the Allies during the Great War, and formed the foundation of Drakian armored fighting vehicle engine design in various guises for the next fifteen years

So as you can see, they work with the Liberty 12 for a good long while in various guises, but by 1937 or so when they want to stick it into the Hond IV, they find that it's just not good enough to maintain the same cruiser tank mobility they've been getting previously. Not to mention how it slows down when they keep it in the Hond IIIB and -C!

Another problem that arose was insufficient engine power; the project was held up for nearly an entire year from 1938 to 1939 as the Armour Board sought the ideal engine for the "Mark Four". In large part, this was due to the massive weight increase from the Mark Three's 33 tons to the Mark Four's 53 tons with no corresponding increase in engine power; as the Lion V engine remained stubbornly stuck at 360 horsepower at the accepted reliability levels, which would have given the new tank a horsepower/ton ratio of only 6.79, compared to the earlier Mark Three's 9. Finally, after several failed engine prototypes, production of the Mark Four was authorized by the Armour Board with the caveat that production be switched over to an appropriate engine as soon as it was developed.

The Janissary Corps at their height would easily be comparable to the fully mortorized elements of the German Heer and Waffen-SS from 1940 to 1943, but their Red Army opposition would go through a similarily harsh attrition rate as well and I doubt the Soviet high command would care about a Red Army conscript anymore than their Drakan counterparts would about a Janissary trooper (although as said before, Drakan/Soviet commanders aim at keeping their army units intact, trying to inflict more damage on the other side). How bad is the medical care for Janissaries? I wouldn't be shocked if Red Army medical care was overall just as dreadful...

Now you're getting to be more spot-on.

It would be getting pretty nasty for Citizen Force alone, let alone for Jannis, with the WarDir recruiting Drakan citizens who are either younger adolescents or late middle aged. The Janissary Corps would also draft serfs from unsuitable age demographs as well, if the WarDir kept concentrating on recruiting from the more “assimilated “ serfs and then get desperate enough to make Eurasian POWs into Janissaries...

All true.

As said earlier, I wonder if you get serf engineers and scientists? Personal man servant serfs or serfs in administration must be highly priviliged and educated as well (think Posca from Rome).

I'm fairly certain that this is not a practice the Draka use. However, I could easily see some brilliant Citizen-scientist keeping a private stable of well-educated serfs as scientists and engineers to do a lot of his work for him, and he gets the credit

But this is where the Citizen Force comes in, where you have first class soldiers who act semi-independently and are good at seizing the initiative, while their Janissary colleagues add extra numbers to massed attacks, hold the line, suck up most of the counter attacks and follow up the more dynamic Citizen Force breakthroughs. And I wouldn’t say the Janni brigades would be anymore useless at adapting on the battlefield than any Red Army unit would (is the Red Army in better shape than it was in the OTL, with no loony like Stalin bumping off half the competent officers and even NCOs?).

Again, correct. The Janissaries are based on mass, the Citizens are based on maneuver.

Also, as far as I remember, under Krasnov there are no massed purges of the officer corps Stalin-style. There are purges, but they're far more restrained.

[montypython]

The Draka mod for HOI2 Armageddon has a leader list attached, but don't know how good it is.

On the tech end of things, I would expect tech exchanges between Imperial Japan and the Draka to help facilitate development.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

Considering how rapidly the Draka advanced (approaching absurdity in Stirling's work) in the sciences, would there be the same race to capture Draka scientists as there was for German ones in our timeline? Or would that be futile?

(Actually, that might make a cool story; a Draka scientist trying to escape from the advancing Soviet army so he can be captured by the British instead)

Also, since I know Stirling himself apparently discussed the series on DS himself (too bad that hard crash happened, or I wouldn't be asking this), what were his thoughts on these matters?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Considering how rapidly the Draka advanced (approaching absurdity in Stirling's work) in the sciences, would there be the same race to capture Draka scientists as there was for German ones in our timeline? Or would that be futile?

(Actually, that might make a cool story; a Draka scientist trying to escape from the advancing Soviet army so he can be captured by the British instead)

Also, since I know Stirling himself apparently discussed the series on DS himself (too bad that hard crash happened, or I wouldn't be asking this), what were his thoughts on these matters?

All those discussions still exist. We have a full backup of the entire website from February, and extensive backups of various sections from dates later than that, despite the whole thing being compounded by my computer hard-drive failing only a couple weeks later when it still had most of the recovered data on it. So we're pretty good. The issue is a financial and hosting one at the moment; expect to see DS.com back up in, oh, maybe a month.

[Pablo Sanchez]

You're not entirely correct on this.

Janissary formations are led by Citizen officers. I'm not quite sure at what level they start appearing. Personally, I'd guess at the Century (Company) level, but we could have Citizen officers for the Janissaries all the way down at the Tetrarchy (Platoon) level.

Well, there's actually a legitimate question here, especially as the war goes on, as to how many junior officers are actually available to the Drakans, and which ones go to the Janissary corps. In a lot of armies capable leadership at the junior levels is in short supply, and casualties are often heaviest among junior officers.

How does one become an officer in the Janissary corps as opposed to a leader of citizen troops? This is an important question, because it doesn't seem like a lot of slick young officers would be volunteering to serve Janissaries, unless there were some incentive to do so. Maybe the heavy use of Janissaries on the front lines leads to more opportunity for promotion?

[Sea Skimmer]

Considering how rapidly the Draka advanced (approaching absurdity in Stirling's work) in the sciences, would there be the same race to capture Draka scientists as there was for German ones in our timeline? Or would that be futile?

They’ll be a race, not only because the Draka do have some advanced technology but also because the allies simply DON’T know what they have in many cases given the huge size of the secretive Draka Empire. However by the time the allies are overrunning the south of Africa, most research teams would have been dispersed, and unlike Nazi Germany it would be hard to for the allies to know who the top researchers ever where. Most of them would have an easy time blending into whatever remains of the general population.

Also, since I know Stirling himself apparently discussed the series on DS himself (too bad that hard crash happened, or I wouldn't be asking this), what were his thoughts on these matters?

He didn’t like us trashing some of his more extremely absurd technological ideas, like compressed air power to every home, but he seemed generally enthusiastic about the amount of work being put into a Draka series fan fic.

[Steve]

He didn’t like us trashing some of his more extremely absurd technological ideas, like compressed air power to every home, but he seemed generally enthusiastic about the amount of work being put into a Draka series fan fic.

As I recall, he was mostly courteous and friendly, engaging in some give and take, and Marina was horrified when Shep kept ragging on him about tank minutae.

[Black Admiral]

How does one become an officer in the Janissary corps as opposed to a leader of citizen troops? This is an important question, because it doesn't seem like a lot of slick young officers would be volunteering to serve Janissaries, unless there were some incentive to do so. Maybe the heavy use of Janissaries on the front lines leads to more opportunity for promotion?

IIRC it's mentioned - or at the least implied fairly heavily - in Under The Yoke that part of the normal progression for a Drakian Army officer means doing a stint in the Janissary Corps. The precise reasons for that are not, though, mentioned in any detail that I recall.

[KlavoHunter]

He didn’t like us trashing some of his more extremely absurd technological ideas, like compressed air power to every home, but he seemed generally enthusiastic about the amount of work being put into a Draka series fan fic.

As I recall, he was mostly courteous and friendly, engaging in some give and take, and Marina was horrified when Shep kept ragging on him about tank minutae.

Don't you mean flying tank minutae? I seem to recall a discussion on how the simple physics of the Stirling-written Rhino made it impossible to fly without some ridiculous amount of engine power, due to needing to be armored against 20mm all over.

Fortunately, he did seem rather alright with us tearing his work apart and stuffing it back together.

[Big Orange]

You still are caught up in the idea that "steam = obsolete, lol!". When it's not. The Draka (and for that matter, much of the rest of the world) have refined steam engines the way that ICE engines were refined OTL.

But that aside, yes, there probably would be some horse-mounted units for various reasons, and there ARE dedicated mountaineer units in the Citizen Force. It just wouldn't be a Germany-like case of "They're FORCED to use pack mules and such because they don't have enough trucks".

But the Drakans like cutting corners with their bulk manufacturing involving serfs, so the majority of autosteamers would be basic units of a older design. But it would be typical that you would get much more modern autosteamers and ICE automobiles for citizen use (it would be cool to see what a officer staff car for either the WarDir or SecDir looks like).

I'm fairly certain that this is not a practice the Draka use. However, I could easily see some brilliant Citizen-scientist keeping a private stable of well-educated serfs as scientists and engineers to do a lot of his work for him, and he gets the credit

But if the Drakan citizens trust a section of their serfs to be well armed and trained infantrymen, it wouldn't be unreasonable to have highly gifted, educated serfs in important roles as administrators and scientists, where they help citizens in the same way Janissaries serve a vital role in bulking up the Dominate's military (perhaps three quaters of the Citizen Force is dedicated to aircraft, tank and artillery units, with relatively few citizen infantrymen left over).

And looking at the Drakan flags (here> http://www.stardestroyer.net/Armour/She ... kaFlag.htm ) I wonder if the distinct yellow star that supposedly symbolises "the purity of the Drakian race" would be the Dominate's universal uniform, vehicle and aircraft logo, not unlike Nazi Germany's Balkenkreuz cross or the red star of the Soviet Union?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Would anyone want me to finish my Drakian works?

[KlavoHunter]

But the Drakans like cutting corners with their bulk manufacturing involving serfs, so the majority of autosteamers would be basic units of a older design. But it would be typical that you would get much more modern autosteamers and ICE automobiles for citizen use (it would be cool to see what a officer staff car for either the WarDir or SecDir looks like).

Yeah, but in the "basic, older" sense, we mean "Solid and proven"

Amusingly, though, Shep and I were thinking of some mention of some limited-production, high-speed autosteamer. (That predictably some Citizen crashes one of only eleven made, resulting in horrible burns and scarring!)

But if the Drakan citizens trust a section of their serfs to be well armed and trained infantrymen, it wouldn't be unreasonable to have highly gifted, educated serfs in important roles as administrators and scientists, where they help citizens in the same way Janissaries serve a vital role in bulking up the Dominate's military (perhaps three quaters of the Citizen Force is dedicated to aircraft, tank and artillery units, with relatively few citizen infantrymen left over).

Personally, I don't know how to reconcile that right now. The fact is, even if they did have dozens of possible Einsteins living amongst their serf population, they'd need a proper education to actually put any of their innate talent to work. Seeing as a vast majority of serfs don't even know how to READ, it's going to be hard to start plucking the bright ones out of the chaff.

As for the proportion of Citizens in the various combat arms, you're still sorta off. Shep's been calculating the proportions with me very recently, it's eerie how much you seem to read our minds.

And looking at the Drakan flags (here> http://www.stardestroyer.net/Armour/She ... kaFlag.htm ) I wonder if the distinct yellow star that supposedly symbolises "the purity of the Drakian race" would be the Dominate's universal uniform, vehicle and aircraft logo, not unlike Nazi Germany's Balkenkreuz cross or the red star of the Soviet Union?

AGAIN with the mind-reading! Last night we were looking for various insignia for various things. Like divisional insignia, and the patches for entire armies. (For example, Army of Italia is going to be a dragon wrapping itself around a Draka-colored Italy all possessively, while looking up towards the rest of Europe, which is in a different color).

But, no, THIS is the primary insignia on all Drakian aircraft, tanks, etc.


There's more information at the bottom of this page about it, showing the evolution of the Dragon marking for aircraft (And presumably armor and everything else that needs the marking).

Would anyone want me to finish my Drakian works?

Oh, without question! Especially The Last Offensive

[phongn]

Would anyone want me to finish my Drakian works?

Yes.

[PeZook]

Would anyone want me to finish my Drakian works?

Oh, hell yes! I'm surprised you even had to ask

[Big Orange]

Personally, I don't know how to reconcile that right now. The fact is, even if they did have dozens of possible Einsteins living amongst their serf population, they'd need a proper education to actually put any of their innate talent to work. Seeing as a vast majority of serfs don't even know how to READ, it's going to be hard to start plucking the bright ones out of the chaff.

It would ironically be more expensive to have slaves than low paid workers in my mind, but civilian serfs would need to be educated on a certain level if they're operating moderately complicated industrial equipment and many other tasks that most "free" citizen employees in other countries do. The serf population would need to be reliably housed and fed, not being mistreated far too harshly and people who excel at basic tasks could be selected for better things including a decent education (a serf meritocracy if you will).

As for the proportion of Citizens in the various combat arms, you're still sorta off. Shep's been calculating the proportions with me very recently, it's eerie how much you seem to read our minds.

I assumed the citizens who are armed personnel would be present in all the military and law enforcement services of the Dominate, with many fighting citizens posted as officers in the Janissary Corps and also widely dispersed throughout the Dominate and occupied territories as SD policemen, leaving relatively few citizens as frontline CF combat troops who are not operating serious military hardware.

AGAIN with the mind-reading! Last night we were looking for various insignia for various things. Like divisional insignia, and the patches for entire armies. (For example, Army of Italia is going to be a dragon wrapping itself around a Draka-colored Italy all possessively, while looking up towards the rest of Europe, which is in a different color).

But the eight pointed Drakan star would be made into a universal metallic cap badge for all Drakan soldiers and police, right? And have you thought up what the Security Directorate's symbol is going to be?

But, no, THIS is the primary insignia on all Drakian aircraft, tanks, etc.


There's more information at the bottom of this page about it, showing the evolution of the Dragon marking for aircraft (And presumably armor and everything else that needs the marking).

I would see as the universal Drakan flag flown high for all military ships, encampments and facilities throughout the war, but it looks far too "messy" for military insignia to be put on tanks, aircraft and jeeps - WWI biplanes would have overpainted fussy insignia like that, but the more abstract looking Drakan wings that was supposedly introduced in 1943 should be introduced roughly a decade earlier...

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Would anyone want me to finish my Drakian works?

Oh, hell yes! I'm surprised you even had to ask :)

Well, that problem has been solved, as DRB has been updated.

[MKSheppard]

I would see as the universal Drakan flag flown high for all military ships, encampments and facilities throughout the war

Actually, I like it as the Naval Jack, which gets misidentified (like the CSA Jack) post war as the "universal" flag.

but the more abstract looking Drakan wings that was supposedly introduced in 1943 should be introduced roughly a decade earlier...

Perhaps the Snake Wings with the Yellow Star overlaid on them?

BTW, here are some divisional insigna possibilities:

[KlavoHunter]

It would ironically be more expensive to have slaves than low paid workers in my mind, but civilian serfs would need to be educated on a certain level if they're operating moderately complicated industrial equipment and many other tasks that most "free" citizen employees in other countries do. The serf population would need to be reliably housed and fed, not being mistreated far too harshly and people who excel at basic tasks could be selected for better things including a decent education (a serf meritocracy if you will).

Ah, but as for the provision of housing and food for the serfs that a Combine employs - they bundle the whole system up into one monopoly-ish system in which the serf-employees live, rather like the the "Company Towns" in the US and other parts of the world. The Combines have benefits over a conventional company in educating its workers - the only thing that can take their 'employees' away from them, after their investment in their education, is death.

Again, though, as for elevation of the best and brightest - I'm not sure on how it would work, if it'd happen at all. Obviously, the smarter serfs who grasp the workings of the factory and so forth end up elevated to foreman and whatnot. Ones who are even smarter intellectually-wise get taught to read and do the company's basic paperwork. Beyond that, I don't know.

I assumed the citizens who are armed personnel would be present in all the military and law enforcement services of the Dominate, with many fighting citizens posted as officers in the Janissary Corps and also widely dispersed throughout the Dominate and occupied territories as SD policemen, leaving relatively few citizens as frontline CF combat troops who are not operating serious military hardware.

We'd have to tally that up. However, we were talking about this last night, Shep and I, and we more or less hashed out what a "Police Legion" (for holding conquered territory) would look like. It'd be a mix of Citizens, OrPos, and Janissaries. Primarily, of course, it would be mainly foot- or motorized Janissary infantry, who go out and patrol and such. If shit hits the fan, though, the Citizens are the ones who do the majority of the reacting, and start suppressing things hard. These Police Legions citizens wouldn't be grade-A CF material - they'd probably be the ones who have flat feet or are somewhat nearsighted, and so forth.

You have to understand, that with a Citizen population roughly analogous to France, the Draka can afford to put a simply INSANE proportion of their Citizen population in arms, because they are, in large part, above their own economy, which is supported by the serfs. Rosie the Draka isn't needed to stay back in the Police Zone and be Rosie the Riveter - she's freed up to carry a T-9 and kill Russians. More domestic-side things that require Citizen attention can be safely taken care of by older Citizens, or those who simply don't physically fit the bill as frontline soldiers.

But the eight pointed Drakan star would be made into a universal metallic cap badge for all Drakan soldiers and police, right? And have you thought up what the Security Directorate's symbol is going to be?

Shep's liking it more and more, I'm still sorta undecided

I would see as the universal Drakan flag flown high for all military ships, encampments and facilities throughout the war, but it looks far too "messy" for military insignia to be put on tanks, aircraft and jeeps - WWI biplanes would have overpainted fussy insignia like that, but the more abstract looking Drakan wings that was supposedly introduced in 1943 should be introduced roughly a decade earlier...

It DOES make sense, to introduce the abstract wings-only marking earlier, but not so universally.

The Draka are narcissistic in the extreme. If it's a 'personal' piece of military equipment - like a tank, or an airplane, or a staff car that Citizens use, they'd want it with the full Dragon, Shield, and Chains.

On the other hand, I doubt they'd care so much about some canvas-covered Autosteamer truck that a serf drives around to do logistics, and that might instead get the simple wings stencil with red paint. Bam, done, it's obviously Draka, but the serf driving it doesn't really give a damn if it's not the Dragon in its full glory.

[MKSheppard]

Ones who are even smarter intellectually-wise get taught to read and do the company's basic paperwork. Beyond that, I don't know.

I'd imagine a few are taught the basics of engineering or mathematics; This is the 1940s, where Naval gun ballistics tables are crunched by thousands of girls sitting in an office in Washington DC with desktop calculators....

Said serfs would probably be expensive and quite rare and would most likely be sold or transferred back and forth between Combines as needs arise.

Primarily, of course, it would be mainly foot- or motorized Janissary infantry, who go out and patrol and such.

Also, quite a bit of horses though, with Cavalry units; especially in very unmotorizable areas like Marshes, Mountains, etc.

If shit hits the fan, though, the Citizens are the ones who do the majority of the reacting, and start suppressing things hard.

That wouldn't happen a lot though. Let's be honest. Even a cheap, only marginally bullet resistant warcar with a 7.62 MG in a turret is going to be more than enough to deal with partisans.

One problem is going to be insufficient manpower/mobility.

In Real life, a single Wehrmacht Security Division in Russia was responsible for 10,000 km^2 of territory. And those were FOOT mobile divisions.