Good Science in Sci-Fi

[Paradox244]

Any examples of good science in science fiction that you particularly noticed? For instance, I was playing Metroid Prime the other day, and I noticed that the Plasma Beam was similar to what a plasma weapon should be, a fast particle weapon. Anyone notice others?

[DogsOfWar]

About all I can think of is the stuff in 2001: A Space Odyssey. But that's probably not what you're looking for

[Spanky The Dolphin]

For instance, I was playing Metroid Prime the other day, and I noticed that the Plasma Beam was similar to what a plasma weapon should be, a fast particle weapon.

I don't think that's actually how it works.

[Starglider]

A surprisingly large amount of Stargate:SG-1 (and to a lesser extent, Stargate:Atlantis). It actually beats B5 on technical and scientific accuracy despite superficially seeming to include more fantastic elements. It includes genuinely interesting speculative science in a way that fans claim Star Trek does. Of course such fans are under the delusion that more technobabble = more science - I've lost count of the number of trekkies who've come up to me and rattled off their rationalisation of how Fed tech works based on sixty eight or so invented magical particles and materials, then acted hurt and offended when I point out this is an arbitrary word game rather than anything even vaguely connected to actual science.

[General Zod]

Any examples of good science in science fiction that you particularly noticed? For instance, I was playing Metroid Prime the other day, and I noticed that the Plasma Beam was similar to what a plasma weapon should be, a fast particle weapon. Anyone notice others?

Using a game where being able to transform a full sized human being into a compact sphere with no adverse side effects and somehow magically violating the conservation of energy is common probably isn't such a good example of "good science".

[Molyneux]

Any examples of good science in science fiction that you particularly noticed? For instance, I was playing Metroid Prime the other day, and I noticed that the Plasma Beam was similar to what a plasma weapon should be, a fast particle weapon. Anyone notice others?

Using a game where being able to transform a full sized human being into a compact sphere with no adverse side effects and somehow magically violating the conservation of energy is common probably isn't such a good example of "good science".

Metroids drain "life energy" from their prey. That alone keeps the series from being 'hard' sci-fi, as much as I love the games.

The silence of space in both Firefly and the Alien series (though not Alien: Resurrection) deserve mention.

[NecronLord]

I've a special mention for Dr Who's Rememberance of the Daleks when the Dalek technicians watch the Hand of Omega working, and rattle vaguely accurate terms about expansion, core collapse, neutrinos and so on. It doesn't take much work to get that kind of dialogue right, but it makes the scene so much better.

[Old Plympto]

The silence of space in both Firefly and the Alien series (though not Alien: Resurrection) deserve mention.

I'm afraid all the first three Alien movies have sound in space. I distinctly remember the Nostromo's thrusters firing after unhooking from the refinery, the drop ship engines roaring as it dropped from the Sulaco, and ... hmm I can't remember exact instances in Alien3. Need to watch that movie again.

[NecronLord]

For the most part, the Sulaco Drop scene is shot from the inside of the ship, or the deployment bay, or the atmosphere no? There should be sound in at least two of those.

[Old Plympto]

For the most part, the Sulaco Drop scene is shot from the inside of the ship, or the deployment bay, or the atmosphere no? There should be sound in at least two of those.

I'm thinking of the scene where the dropship is released from the bay and it pitches down, zooms past the camera and rolls for planetfall, in one single take. I remember the engines roaring past the camera. It appeared to still be in space (perhaps low orbit) at the time.

[Molyneux]

The silence of space in both Firefly and the Alien series (though not Alien: Resurrection) deserve mention.

I'm afraid all the first three Alien movies have sound in space. I distinctly remember the Nostromo's thrusters firing after unhooking from the refinery, the drop ship engines roaring as it dropped from the Sulaco, and ... hmm I can't remember exact instances in Alien3. Need to watch that movie again.

Oh...drat.
I haven't yet actually seen Alien or Aliens...and I was under the impression that Alien3 took place almost entirely on a planet. I guess I was fooled by "In space, no-one can hear you scream..."

[Old Plympto]

Oh...drat.
I haven't yet actually seen Alien or Aliens...and I was under the impression that Alien3 took place almost entirely on a planet. I guess I was fooled by "In space, no-one can hear you scream..."

Alien3 does take place on a planet for 99% of the movie. Hell it might even be as high as 99.9% of the movie. But two space scenes still stick out in my memory: the Sulaco jettisoning its hypersleep pod and the shot of the Weyland-Yutani spacecraft approaching Fiorina 161.

I honestly can't remember whether these scenes had sounds cause I haven't seen the movie for nearly a decade.

[Molyneux]

Sound in space is an artistic license thing anyway; it is just there for the viewers to have fun. So long as it doesn't change the plot, I am willing to look beyond it. Still, when someone gets it right (especially if he manages to make the silence artistically relevant, such as in 2001), it is really cool to see.

Another little thing I enjoyed was the boarding of the Klingon ship to assassinate the chancellor in Star Trek VI. The way the blood worked was really cool.

True..."Undiscovered Country" is one of my all-time favorite movies, and that's one of the reasons. And it's bizarre how few films and series have taken advantage of silence in space to draw the viewer in with some appropriate music...perhaps Joss Whedon thought to do it in Firefly because he had experience of doing pretty much the same thing in "Hush"?

[Paradox244]

For instance, I was playing Metroid Prime the other day, and I noticed that the Plasma Beam was similar to what a plasma weapon should be, a fast particle weapon.

I don't think that's actually how it works.

The general presentation was what I meant, as it is not a slow moving, glowing blob.

[Paradox244]

Metroids drain "life energy" from their prey. That alone keeps the series from being 'hard' sci-fi, as much as I love the games.

Not the whole series, just that one example. The rest is nowhere near hard sci-fi, but that one example stuck out to me.

[Zor]

Planetes.

Zor

[Molyneux]

Planetes.

Zor

What?

Or to be a bit more verbose: What the heck is Planetes?

[Masami von Weizegger]

What?

Or to be a bit more verbose: What the heck is Planetes?

It's a manga/anime that's supposed to be quite realistic. Within the confines of manga, of course.

[Gil Hamilton]

It's a manga/anime that's supposed to be quite realistic. Within the confines of manga, of course.

It is quite realistic, though the manga has at least two really fantastic things.

One in it in that the engine that the big scientist in it was developing for the manned flight to Jupiter was a fusion engine that produced vastly more energy than one could possibly produce, to the tune that when Locksmith deliberately blew one of them up to figure out exactly how much energy he had to work with, it produced a very large multi-gigaton scale explosion that produced an enormous crater on the moon.

The other is that the author REALLY overstates the theoretical idea that you could make the space around Earth impassable due to debris; the so-called Kessler Syndrome. The second part of the 4th manga has a war in space between the United States and a future country where the bombs the US uses ends up producing millions of tons of debris in orbit around Earth, making it impossible to travel in some orbits because of the high risk of getting hit by some of it and your ship being destroyed.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Planetes, from what I've seen, is all hard sci-fi. You don't get anything beyond what we can expect from science and engineering this century. The Kessler Syndrome is nullified by LEO objects burning up eventually and I severely doubt you could make all of Earth orbit totally impassable without going really low. It's also not like you can't track and deal with the larger pieces and hope the smaller pieces aren't going fast enough.

A lot of the best hard sci-fi is written. You get the likes of 2001 or the Revelation Space series where the humans, mainly, have technology that obeys currently known laws of physics, but where there are elder races that do stuff which, to us today, is practically magic like building planet sized constructs, being able to tap space-time for energy and so on.

TV and movies are more often than not pretty slim on hard SF, likely because people think Star Wars when they think major league SF, and that, as with Star Trek, is more fantasy than anything, with very few actual workable concepts. You can forgive sound in space or FTL, though there are plenty of other things to niggle at the mind.

[Starglider]

Sound in space is an artistic license thing anyway; it is just there for the viewers to have fun.

With the exception of supposed 'plausible camera' direction (e.g. BSG), space scenes are usually observed from an impossible vantage point anyway. I see it as the cinematic equivalent of the omniscient narrator in written fiction. As such I have no problem with sound in space in external shots, as it's just an extension of the magical observer to being able to hear the sounds occuring in/on each ship (you could imagine them using laser vibration pickups if you like).

However it would be nice if the interior shots showed the /characters/ perceiving no sound in space, though in some circumstances (e.g. fighter cockpits) computer simulated sound is actually a fairly plausible way of giving the pilot better spatial awareness.

[Admiral Valdemar]

When you think about it, in deep space you'd see jack shit anyway and if you were using realistic ranges for weapons, you'd see even less bar the odd flash of light (again, why books are able to be more realistic since they don't rely on a visual medium for 50% of their story).

The SW detecting sound via EM emissions for helping pilots locate an enemy is a good way of getting around the purely artistic licence. Just don't go from that to sonic cannons that hit orbiting ships...

[Starglider]

When you think about it, in deep space you'd see jack shit anyway

Yes, the fill lighting is waaaaay too high, particularly obvious in the deep space scenes in B5 with shiny bright White Stars light years away from any star. Even in scenes taking place in solar systems, the shadows are usually way too soft (Generations was unusually realistic in this respect).

Just don't go from that to sonic cannons that hit orbiting ships...

What you say? Someone actually did this?

[Patrick Degan]

One source of fairly good science as a backdrop to the SF in a regular production is the various Gundam series: no ETs, no FTL, no teleportation, energy shields, or forcefield gravity or propulsion. The action is confined entirely to the solar system and depicts man living on Earth and in orbital habitats. Of course, you still have the impossible transforming space mecha, but in terms of setting they're one up in the plausibility department over most SF productions.

[Drooling Iguana]

What you say? Someone actually did this?

I think it was in an episode of the original Star Trek.