ST vs. SW

[Ender]

If yall are going to SW EU. I'll just have to use ST EU. won't that be fun?

ST doesn't have an EU, dumbass.

There are a considerable number of Trek novels out there. Including crossovers with the X-men.

[Darth Servo]

Back, I still hate work.

anyways.

Phasers do vape people. That is canon. (thanks to it being said so in episodes and movies.)

Provide quotes stating that they vaporized, though it is irrelevant as characters have also claimed the existence of temperatures below 0 Kelvin. Not to mention that one need only watch the show to see they do not vaporize their objects. They disappear, but they are not vaporized.

In ST6: The Undiscovered Country, they talk about vaporizing things with phasers, not that it makes any difference since as you, me and about a dozen others have pointed out, disappearing into thin air w/o any vapor is not vaporization.

[General Zod]

ST doesn't have an EU, dumbass.

There are a considerable number of Trek novels out there. Including crossovers with the X-men.[/quote]

There is no crossover with the X-Men. Clearly you are hitting Einy's bong too much. *Jedi handwave*

[Darth Lucifer]

If yall are going to SW EU. I'll just have to use ST EU. won't that be fun?

ST doesn't have an EU, dumbass.

There are a considerable number of Trek novels out there. Including crossovers with the X-men.

I'll rephrase. Star Trek has "canon" and "non-canon". That's it. Nothing else.

[Darth Servo]

Phasers do vape people. That is canon. (thanks to it being said so in episodes and movies.)

When visuals and dialogue are in conflict, it is generally better to go with the former for objective analysis, since the latter can be highly subjective.

Example: Cmdr. Shelby in BOBW made an estimate that a Borg Cube can still function even if 75% of it was inoperative. But ST:FC clearly contradicts this. On top of that, she had never encountered the Borg up until that very episode.

Hell, its not even necessary to say there's a contradiction. Its rather obvious that "vaporization" has turned into a slang term in Star Trek and not used literally.

Oh, and your example--trekkies continue to insist on taking Shelby's statement literally too, regardless of what happened in FC.

[lord Martiya]

Back, I still hate work.

anyways.

Phasers do vape people. That is canon. (thanks to it being said so in episodes and movies.)

Show evidence of vapor.

If yall are going to SW EU. I'll just have to use ST EU. won't that be fun?

Yes, for us in smash you again.

Oh did mention ST ship weapons can do more damage than a nuke?
Based on movie evidence SW capital ship weapons are below nuke level fire power.

I'm hoping you're joking.

And remember bigger isn't always better.

Yes, but in battle more powerful and more well directed is always better. And this is a BIG advantage of SW.

and what weapons did boba fett's ship have?

Four blasters cannons, at least two of them capable of melting asteroids in single shots and mere split-seconds, two missile launchers capable of launching various missiles beside proton torpedoes, concussion missiles and the AA missile used in AOTC, and a mine layer armed with mines powerful as the 275 photon torpedoes of the Enterprise-D.

BTW, why you call yourself 'Evil Shadow'? I'm a lot curious.

[chitoryu12]

Hell, its not even necessary to say there's a contradiction. Its rather obvious that "vaporization" has turned into a slang term in Star Trek and not used literally.

That's also related to lasers in Star Wars. It's obviously just a slang term because blaster bolts bare some resemblance to lasers, which was likely a weapon used many millenia before the invention of primative plasma weapons.

[PeZook]

Phasers do vape people. That is canon. (thanks to it being said so in episodes and movies.)

No vapor, no vape. Others said that, but I will say something else: So?

What's your point here? SW still wins on the ground by the virtue of their enemies fighting in pajamas. At an open battlefield, imperial troops kill because their weapons can be used effectively beyond 10 meters.

In close quarters, there won't even be a firefight, just one thermal detonator per room.

Oh did mention ST ship weapons can do more damage than a nuke?

What nuke? Of what power? It's obvious you're thinking by names, not by numbers and quantifications.

In you mind, a weapon's "power" is defined by its name. Unless I'm wrong - you're welcome to show me wrong, actually.

Based on movie evidence SW capital ship weapons are below nuke level fire power.

Again, what nuke and of what power? Sure, they're below power of some nukes, while way above others. A heavy turbolaser, for example, can put out more power than all Earth nuclear arsenals ever created.

Now, this is the result of observation and calculations. How about you present yours?

And remember bigger isn't always better.

Obviously. Except that statement isn't true where building and powering mile-long starships is concerned.

[lord Martiya]

Hell, its not even necessary to say there's a contradiction. Its rather obvious that "vaporization" has turned into a slang term in Star Trek and not used literally.

That's also related to lasers in Star Wars. It's obviously just a slang term because blaster bolts bare some resemblance to lasers, which was likely a weapon used many millenia before the invention of primative plasma weapons.

Or maybe is related to a laser component absent in the standard blaster (and a laser is present in the turbolasers).

[Lord Revan]

Ok I hate debating but man you're just too stupid to pass

Phasers do vape people. That is canon. (thanks to it being said so in episodes and movies.)

no Vapor, no vaporiation. Jeez man did you grow in barrel or something, ever heard that people use slang or that language can evolve?

If yall are going to SW EU. I'll just have to use ST EU. won't that be fun?

or we can go just with the offical definations of canon that says there's no such thing as ST EU but there is SW EU if you don't like it take it up with Paramount Pictures or Lucasfilm

Oh did mention ST ship weapons can do more damage than a nuke?
Based on movie evidence SW capital ship weapons are below nuke level fire power.

and the evidence for this is? Sorry boy, but I won't belive it without evidence and "because I say so" doesn't count as evidence

And remember bigger isn't always better.

and?

and what weapons did boba fett's ship have?

2 tail cannos, 2 mid ships anti fight guns, missile laucher and a minelayer with unknown numbar of seismic charges and that's only going by the movies

[Chardok]

Just so I can get this straight..

In ST, to a trekkie, someone says "Phasers Vaporize" so a trekkie will say "SEE! THEY VAPORIZE!" even though onscreen clearly shows it's *not* vaporization.

In SW, to a trekkie, someone calls a weapon a Turbolaser and so it MUST be a laser, even though it acts nothing like one.


So...Is this typical of a trek debater? They take speech as gospel and damn observed effects?

[General Zod]

So...Is this typical of a trek debater? They take speech as gospel and damn observed effects?

It's typical of the stupid ones at least. Notice the similarities between the style of debate used by religious fundamentalists. Plenty of arguments from ignorance, no limits fallacies and constant backpedaling.

[Havok]

So...Is this typical of a trek debater? They take speech as gospel and damn observed effects?

Uh...Welcome to STvsSW Chardok.

Out of curiosity, what exactly does happen to the bodies of the max power phaser hits? Disintegration? Atomization?

[Lord Revan]

So...Is this typical of a trek debater? They take speech as gospel and damn observed effects?

Uh...Welcome to STvsSW Chardok.

Out of curiosity, what exactly does happen to the bodies of the max power phaser hits? Disintegration? Atomization?

never (truly) explained beond "they disapear with a flash of light".

[Darth Lucifer]

So...Is this typical of a trek debater? They take speech as gospel and damn observed effects?

Basically, yes. This explains the "no lasers" fallacy, the "Borg cubes can function if 75% of it was damaged" line of thought and many other tired, worn-out arguments typical of rabid Trektards.

[chitoryu12]

So...Is this typical of a trek debater? They take speech as gospel and damn observed effects?

Uh...Welcome to STvsSW Chardok.

Out of curiosity, what exactly does happen to the bodies of the max power phaser hits? Disintegration? Atomization?

Read the main site. Mike had a page on possible explanations.

[lord Martiya]

So...Is this typical of a trek debater? They take speech as gospel and damn observed effects?

It's typical of the stupid ones at least. Notice the similarities between the style of debate used by religious fundamentalists. Plenty of arguments from ignorance, no limits fallacies and constant backpedaling.

I was stupid enough to study in a catholic school, I can confirm. To make an example, in my class there was a girl who copied all from us, but because the teachers decided that she was the best student, they refuse every evidence and that fact known from the ENTIRE school. Before that school, I was deeply religious. Now I want join the Evil Atheist Conspirancy.

Out of curiosity, what exactly does happen to the bodies of the max power phaser hits? Disintegration? Atomization?

Here on the main site you can read an analisys with a possible explanation.

[Havok]

*snip Sherlock*

*snip Watson*

Well yes, thank you. But as I'm sure you've noticed, that info hasn't been updated for almost 9 years. I was looking for either new info, or something confirmed.

I know it is retarded, but I tend to assume that people that post here have read the main site and when they ask a question such as I did it is with the knowledge that they have already read it and are looking for new info.

Yes, I know that is lame.

[Ted C]

Phasers do vape people. That is canon. (thanks to it being said so in episodes and movies.)

Phasers do not vaporize people. If they did, the person would turn into a scalding-hot, noxious-smelling clould of vapor with obvious effects on its surroundings. Since we never see such effects in a phaser "vaporization" incident, whatever phasers do to make people disappear, it's not vaporization.

Any characters who say that a phaser can or did "vaporize" someone must be using the term figuratively, not literally.

If yall are going to SW EU. I'll just have to use ST EU. won't that be fun?

Just dull. Lucasfilm recognizes the SW EU as canon material; Paramount does not recognize the ST EU as canon material. How many times must people beat your skull with this information before you understand.

Oh did mention ST ship weapons can do more damage than a nuke?

While its seldom seen, it is apparent that Federation weapons can achieve yields comparable to nuclear weapons. This is not surprising, since any civilization capable of interstellar space travel must be capable of this kind of power generation.

Based on movie evidence SW capital ship weapons are below nuke level fire power.

An absurd claim, since the vaporization of asteroids alone (in TESB) demonstrates energy yields comparable to nuclear weapons.

And remember bigger isn't always better.

You think this is some kind of revelation?

and what weapons did boba fett's ship have?

Blaster canons, missiles, and "seismic charges" capable of shattering huge asteroids with ease. A bounty-hunter's ship has demonstrated greater firepower than Federation capital ships.

[Peptuck]

Back, I still hate work.

anyways.

Phasers do vape people. That is canon. (thanks to it being said so in episodes and movies.)

No, they make things vanish,a nd judging by everything we see, theya re a tremendous waste of power and stillc an't penetrate even light cover.

If yall are going to SW EU. I'll just have to use ST EU. won't that be fun?

You dripping sack of stupid. The Star wars EU is considered canon by Lucasfilm, while there is no EU for Star Trek, which is either "canon" or "not canon".

Oh did mention ST ship weapons can do more damage than a nuke?
Based on movie evidence SW capital ship weapons are below nuke level fire power.

Clearly the concept of "reduced levels of firepower" has no meaning to you.

And remember bigger isn't always better.

*facepalm*

A 155mm howitzer is going to do a little bit more damage than a .22 pistol.

and what weapons did boba fett's ship have?

Seismic charges and blasters that have done more damage than any conventional Star Trek weapon to date.

[Darth Wong]

Just so I can get this straight..

In ST, to a trekkie, someone says "Phasers Vaporize" so a trekkie will say "SEE! THEY VAPORIZE!" even though onscreen clearly shows it's *not* vaporization.

In SW, to a trekkie, someone calls a weapon a Turbolaser and so it MUST be a laser, even though it acts nothing like one.


So...Is this typical of a trek debater? They take speech as gospel and damn observed effects?

I figured out Trektards a long time ago. Hint: look at the way Christians read the Bible. Now look at the way Trekkies think. See the resemblance?

[Peptuck]

SSFPheonix - the guy who we're suspecting is Evil Shadow in ST.com - posted this on ST.com at about the same time Evil Shadow posted here. Look what nuggets of hilarity he's bringing to the table.

Watch the freaking movie again, The SSD is not fired on by the entire fleet or even 1/4 of the fleet intill Ackbar tells them "Concentrate all fire on that super star destroyer." and then its mainly taking out by two fighters. One blows up the "forward screen generator" and the other rams the bridge killing the SSD.


BWhahaha. ST shields, weapons, and armor are vastly superior to SW. I mean an asteroid the size of a beach ball can threaten a SD? wtf? isn't that a battleship? ST Ships can move asteroids bigger than that and not be even worried about whats if it hits them.

All SW ships have crappy shields, armor, and a jamming field. ST transporters are hard to block, its going take more than that.

Wait you mean some people NEVER MAKE MISTAKES? yeah right.

I'm military mindish and in my right mind, And I still pick ST over SW. Yeah I have looked at phasers and guess what? I like them better than those crappy blasters. Lack of tactics? Have you even seen a ST episode? They use tactics unless of course taking cover and setting ambushes aren't tactics.

In SW Capital ships hardly move once they are in range, which is kinda stupid. I mean big ship + not moving = cannon fodder.

In ST though, capital ships move around and use tactics. OMG no wonder Military people prefer ST combat to SW.

Borg would adapt to SW weapons after one shot, which means all those energy weapons SW has would be useless against them. After that Its pretty much the end for SW. Kirk, I hate to admit, would kick storm trooper ###.

[Paradox244]

Hint: look at the way many Christians read the Bible. Now look at the way Trekkies think. See the resemblance?

Fixed. Not all of us are literalists. But the similarity between the viewpoints is something I had never thought about before. It also seems that, like many fundies, rabid trekkies will use material with absolutly no sense of the context (such as the "lasers don't effect shields" arguement.)

[lord Martiya]

Watch the freaking movie again, The SSD is not fired on by the entire fleet or even 1/4 of the fleet intill Ackbar tells them "Concentrate all fire on that super star destroyer." and then its mainly taking out by two fighters. One blows up the "forward screen generator" and the other rams the bridge killing the SSD.


BWhahaha. ST shields, weapons, and armor are vastly superior to SW. I mean an asteroid the size of a beach ball can threaten a SD? wtf? isn't that a battleship? ST Ships can move asteroids bigger than that and not be even worried about whats if it hits them.

All SW ships have crappy shields, armor, and a jamming field. ST transporters are hard to block, its going take more than that.

Wait you mean some people NEVER MAKE MISTAKES? yeah right.

I'm military mindish and in my right mind, And I still pick ST over SW. Yeah I have looked at phasers and guess what? I like them better than those crappy blasters. Lack of tactics? Have you even seen a ST episode? They use tactics unless of course taking cover and setting ambushes aren't tactics.

In SW Capital ships hardly move once they are in range, which is kinda stupid. I mean big ship + not moving = cannon fodder.

In ST though, capital ships move around and use tactics. OMG no wonder Military people prefer ST combat to SW.

Borg would adapt to SW weapons after one shot, which means all those energy weapons SW has would be useless against them. After that Its pretty much the end for SW. Kirk, I hate to admit, would kick storm trooper ###.

The only sane thing said is that Kirk could kick a stormtrooper, if the trooper is not wearing the armour.

[Batman]

Dude, Ripped-Shirt Kirk is the ULTIMATE unarmed combat force in the multiverse. Kirk-Fu could probably beat SUPERMAN!

On a more serious note what's this about a forward screen generator? What language version of the movie did the guy watch? Because both the US and the german release quite clearly state they lost the bridge deflector shield, as we're used to.