9 million stormtroopers

[Ritterin Sophia]

From where does this idiotic thinking come from?
Is it the realisation that actually the protagonists would have been pretty meaningless if not for lots of dumb luck?

Well, most of them just don't pay attention to the movies, notice that people still say 'LOLZ St0rm7r00p3rs r innacrate' because they weren't paying attention to Tarkin & Leia outright saying that Luke & Co were deliberately let go, one right after the other.

[FTeik]

Are they lacking the imagination of the scale of the Empire?

Because Star Wars fans are the opposite of the fans of every other series, they're antifans, wanting everything to be weaker.

From where does this idiotic thinking come from?
Is it the realisation that actually the protagonists would have been pretty meaningless if not for lots of dumb luck?

Thank all goodness that I discovered SD.net, before soaking up this shit.

They saw the movies (the OT to be precise) and for some reason assume, that the worlds seen there (Tattoine, Hoth, Endor, Besping) are the standard for the GFFA and not the backwater of the galaxy.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Are they lacking the imagination of the scale of the Empire?

Because Star Wars fans are the opposite of the fans of every other series, they're antifans, wanting everything to be weaker.

From where does this idiotic thinking come from?
Is it the realisation that actually the protagonists would have been pretty meaningless if not for lots of dumb luck?

Thank all goodness that I discovered SD.net, before soaking up this shit.

That's because they have small minds and lacking sense of scale? Kinda like that Admiral who distrusted the Force.

[Stravo]

Less. The Imperial Sourcebook states that the Empire holds sway over 50 million colonies, protectorates, etc. in addition to its main 1 million worlds. So, that's 0.18 stormtroopers per planet.

Going by the 25,000 ISD claim (which itself is pretty minimalistic), each carrying 9,700 stormtroopers, there should be 242.5 million troopers stationed on ISDs alone.

The Empire can NOT possibly control that many worlds with that few stormtroopers. Who the hell is responsible for this number?

Karren *shudders* Travis

Uh no. You can blame George Lucas for that. Let's remember the source of the low number of clone troopers before we go ripping into authors who have to toe the line writing for a universe owned and created by someone else. AOTC is the true source of this mess.

As to the 25.000 ISD claim, I thought that was a fan generated number and not an official number.

[Publius]

Gilad Pellaeon specifically cites 25,000 Star Destroyers in the old Imperial fleet in Specter of the Past. Any fan who had performed even a cursory level of analysis prior to generating a number would not have arrived at so low a figure, in light of the fact that the Imperial Sourcebook observes that Sector Groups have a minimum of 24 Star Destroyers and goes on to say that the Galactic Emperor controls "thousands" of Sector Groups.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Uh no. You can blame George Lucas for that. Let's remember the source of the low number of clone troopers before we go ripping into authors who have to toe the line writing for a universe owned and created by someone else. AOTC is the true source of this mess.

As to the 25.000 ISD claim, I thought that was a fan generated number and not an official number.

Er.. you have actually read that Insider short story right?

[Stravo]

Uh no. You can blame George Lucas for that. Let's remember the source of the low number of clone troopers before we go ripping into authors who have to toe the line writing for a universe owned and created by someone else. AOTC is the true source of this mess.

As to the 25.000 ISD claim, I thought that was a fan generated number and not an official number.

Er.. you have actually read that Insider short story right?

Can't say that I have but when AOTC states there are 3 million units ready for action and GL has stuck to that figure what can Travis really do? I'm not defending her because of her bullshit histronics that arose from the debate regarding her short story (1 clone trooper = thousands of wardroids, Mandolrian bullshit, etc) but at the same time she just can't rewrite what the creator established as a number from which to base all of this off of.

[Darth Servo]

Well, most of them just don't pay attention to the movies, notice that people still say 'LOLZ St0rm7r00p3rs r innacrate' because they weren't paying attention to Tarkin & Leia outright saying that Luke & Co were deliberately let go, one right after the other.

I've seen morons try to rationalize that by insisting that was just refering to the fact that only four TIEs attacked the Falcon. Never mind that those two statements are hardly the only canon support for letting Leia and company go.

Imperial Officer over intercom: We've captured a freighter entering the remains of the Alderaan system. Its markings match those of a shipt that blasted its way out of Mos Eisley.
Vader: They must be trying to return the stolen plans to the Princess. She may yet be of some use to us.

Stormtrooper 1: Do you know whats going on?
Stormtrooper 2: Maybe its another drill.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Uh no. You can blame George Lucas for that. Let's remember the source of the low number of clone troopers before we go ripping into authors who have to toe the line writing for a universe owned and created by someone else. AOTC is the true source of this mess.

Err... no, the statement was, '200,000 units ready, with a million more well on the way', Lucas Licensings stance was to keep no set number of troops (a unit can denote any number of things), until Miss Traviss came along.

[Stravo]

Uh no. You can blame George Lucas for that. Let's remember the source of the low number of clone troopers before we go ripping into authors who have to toe the line writing for a universe owned and created by someone else. AOTC is the true source of this mess.

Err... no, the statement was, '200,000 units ready, with a million more well on the way', Lucas Licensings stance was to keep no set number of troops (a unit can denote any number of things), until Miss Traviss came along.

You know I have to apologize, I got my facts mixed up and didn't realize that Travis actually solidified the 3 million clonetroop number whereas GL kept it vague. Its been awhile since I was involved in the clone numbers debate.

It would have been preferable if GL simply kept numbers out of the Clone Army introduction. We were never given numbers during the OT and that worked just fine.

[Isolder74]

Uh no. You can blame George Lucas for that. Let's remember the source of the low number of clone troopers before we go ripping into authors who have to toe the line writing for a universe owned and created by someone else. AOTC is the true source of this mess.

Err... no, the statement was, '200,000 units ready, with a million more well on the way', Lucas Licensings stance was to keep no set number of troops (a unit can denote any number of things), until Miss Traviss came along.

You know I have to apologize, I got my facts mixed up and didn't realize that Travis actually solidified the 3 million clonetroop number whereas GL kept it vague. Its been awhile since I was involved in the clone numbers debate.

It would have been preferable if GL simply kept numbers out of the Clone Army introduction. We were never given numbers during the OT and that worked just fine.

Indeed after all an unit could be from up to an entire Battalion to a Platoon of Clones. The idea that it was one clone is was was silly concept. Much more likely they were talking about at least a division.

[lord Martiya]

In the parade of Clonetroopers at the end of AOTC there are at least 22 transport in loading for deploying in battle, and if an Acclamator-class ship trasports 16000 troops, there are AT LEAST 352000 only in that parade. Clearly, Kaminoans referred to something bigger than units on one soldier.

[Havok]

Uh no. You can blame George Lucas for that. Let's remember the source of the low number of clone troopers before we go ripping into authors who have to toe the line writing for a universe owned and created by someone else. AOTC is the true source of this mess.

Err... no, the statement was, '200,000 units ready, with a million more well on the way', Lucas Licensings stance was to keep no set number of troops (a unit can denote any number of things), until Miss Traviss came along.

You know I have to apologize, I got my facts mixed up and didn't realize that Travis actually solidified the 3 million clonetroop number whereas GL kept it vague. Its been awhile since I was involved in the clone numbers debate.

It would have been preferable if GL simply kept numbers out of the Clone Army introduction. We were never given numbers during the OT and that worked just fine.

Man, you don't need to apologize. I've tried to cleanse my brain of that argument many times. Besides, we wouldn't be able to hear it over the sound of how awesome your AV is.

As for the units. I like to think that a unit is each age group that a certain facility produces, so in AOTC we would have seen four units, the babies in the incubators, the 10 year olds, the clones eating and the clones in armor.

200,000 with a million more on the way, assuming that the million are the clones that are fully grown, is a formidable force. You would need to get a number for how many clones are in an age group to figure out the exact number.

Another thing that has always bothered me was the movie is called ATTACK of the CLONES. In a galaxy with with numbers like; "a thousand thousand worlds", "for over a thousand generations" "I am fluent in over 6 million forms of communication" to have 3 million clones be able to "Attack" anything is just fucking silly.

[The Dark]

You know I have to apologize, I got my facts mixed up and didn't realize that Travis actually solidified the 3 million clonetroop number whereas GL kept it vague. Its been awhile since I was involved in the clone numbers debate.

It would have been preferable if GL simply kept numbers out of the Clone Army introduction. We were never given numbers during the OT and that worked just fine.

Basically what happened was that AOTC said units, and Traviss decided that unit meant an individual clone. For someone who claims to be a journalist with military experience, that's sheer idiocy. A Kaminoan speaking to another scientist might refer to a clone as a unit. However, the Kaminoan is speaking to a Jedi, which is a person they would consider a leader of the clone army, since a Jedi ordered the army. Thus, logically, a unit would be whatever the basic unit would be of clones. The most rational unit would be the clone legion of 9,216 troops, as that is the unit commanded by a Jedi. This would give roughly 1.8 billion clonetroopers as of Geonosis, and 11 billion clonetroopers just after AOTC. Three million units would be approximately 27.65 billion clonetroopers - still a fairly small number for the Empire's millions of worlds (it works out to about 540 CTs per world), but probably sufficient assuming the clonetroopers act as shocktroopers and other soldiers act as garrisons in the rear.

[lord Martiya]

Simple curiosity: where the 9216 number of clones come from?

[Mange]

Simple curiosity: where the 9216 number of clones come from?

From the Insider #84 article Guide to the Grand Army of the Republic written by Karen Traviss and Ryan Kaufman and which describes the order of battle of the GAR. Of course, the figures does not match anything seen in neither AOTC or ROTS. For example, at the end of AOTC, we see clone troopers in formations of 624 men. Now, the article claims that a battalion has 576 troops and if we assume that the formations seen at the end of AOTC are battalions (and applying the same principles as the article), then a legion would have no less than 9,984 troops. A small difference perhaps, but I find it strange that visual evidence from the movies aren't used when it's so easy to use it.

[Coyote]

Didn't the World War Two Russian Army by itself have more soldiers than the "9 million Stormies"?

[Havok]

Didn't the World War Two Russian Army by itself have more soldiers than the "9 million Stormies"?

A point brought up every single time.

[phongn]

Didn't the World War Two Russian Army by itself have more soldiers than the "9 million Stormies"?

The Red Army had more than nine million military fatalities, for that matter.

[PainRack]

Uh no. You can blame George Lucas for that. Let's remember the source of the low number of clone troopers before we go ripping into authors who have to toe the line writing for a universe owned and created by someone else. AOTC is the true source of this mess.

Err... no, the statement was, '200,000 units ready, with a million more well on the way', Lucas Licensings stance was to keep no set number of troops (a unit can denote any number of things), until Miss Traviss came along.

That may have been their stance, but it wasn't Traviss who solidified 1.2 million. Shatterpoint already made it clear that there was only 1.2 million clones and the AOTC novelisation made it clear that 1.2 million individual clones was the supposed figure. Access to the AOTC screenplay draft also shows us that the number of clones at Geonosis were also meant to outnumber the droid army, although the back-data quickly changed.

The stance was that the GAR total strength would be undetermined, not the original army. Traviss problem was in making the GAR 3 million, when that ultimate strength was supposed to be vague, although most other authors were still running around with 1.2 million.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Didn't the World War Two Russian Army by itself have more soldiers than the "9 million Stormies"?

I don't have the David Glantz "Clash of the Titans" book with me, but supposedly, the Soviet Union could call upon 20 million or so trained reservists to fight.

[lord Martiya]

Simple curiosity: where the 9216 number of clones come from?

From the Insider #84 article Guide to the Grand Army of the Republic written by Karen Traviss and Ryan Kaufman and which describes the order of battle of the GAR. Of course, the figures does not match anything seen in neither AOTC or ROTS. For example, at the end of AOTC, we see clone troopers in formations of 624 men. Now, the article claims that a battalion has 576 troops and if we assume that the formations seen at the end of AOTC are battalions (and applying the same principles as the article), then a legion would have no less than 9,984 troops. A small difference perhaps, but I find it strange that visual evidence from the movies aren't used when it's so easy to use it.

Thank you.

[DesertFly]

Simple curiosity: where the 9216 number of clones come from?

From the Insider #84 article Guide to the Grand Army of the Republic written by Karen Traviss and Ryan Kaufman and which describes the order of battle of the GAR. Of course, the figures does not match anything seen in neither AOTC or ROTS. For example, at the end of AOTC, we see clone troopers in formations of 624 men. Now, the article claims that a battalion has 576 troops and if we assume that the formations seen at the end of AOTC are battalions (and applying the same principles as the article), then a legion would have no less than 9,984 troops. A small difference perhaps, but I find it strange that visual evidence from the movies aren't used when it's so easy to use it.

Maybe the extra 48 soldiers are support troops, and thus not counted as part of a battalion.... (I admit I don't know how support personnel are usually counted in real life.)

[phongn]

Support personnel are always counted as part of TO&E.

[Ender]

The Empire can NOT possibly control that many worlds with that few stormtroopers. Who the hell is responsible for this number?

Karren *shudders* Travis

Uh no. You can blame George Lucas for that. Let's remember the source of the low number of clone troopers before we go ripping into authors who have to toe the line writing for a universe owned and created by someone else. AOTC is the true source of this mess.

And it had been fixed by stating that units was not 1 per one and that there were millions of divisions and quintillions of droids.

THEN she retconned, and did so in the face of LFL saying no hard numbers.