Intelligence in Galactic Civil War

lord Martiya · Post by **lord Martiya** » 2007-09-06 05:09am

I have a question on the intelligence war between Rebel Secret Service and the Imperial one: besides the outcome of the war, what side won the intelligence war?
Yes, I know that Rebels striked two intelligence blows stoling the plans of both Death Stars, but in the first incident the Empire captured or killed all but five couriers and took advantage of the last five+Leia in locating the Rebel headquartier, and in the second incident was really an Imperial information poisoning triumph aimed to a lethal trap that near destroyed the Rebel fleet.
On the other side, Ozzel may was a Rebel spy: we know that Rebellion had agents in the Imperial military academies, and Ozzel was an instructor on Coruscant before the promotion at admiral. And in TESB Ozzel tried to dismiss the clues on the position of Echo Base with great superficiality, and his tactic to exit to the hyperspace too close to Hoth for not being detected and too distant for an istantaneous orbital bombardment was crucial in the Rebel escape: a bit too providencial for not possibly being a spy. And placing a spy under the nose of Darth Vader and with a high rank on his own flagship is a great intelligence triumph.
But I don't know much. What you think on it?

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2007-09-06 05:19am

The only informant in the ranks of the Imperial Higher Up's I know of is Rivoche Tarkin, daughter of Brigadier General Gideon Tarkin and the niece of Grand Moff Tarkin.

But Ozzel was simply looking to climb the ranks, by any means necessary.

Paradox244 · Post by **Paradox244** » 2007-09-06 09:09am

I'm not as knowledgable about this as I would like to be, but given that the rebel's intelegance allowed them to blow up the Death Star, I'd say that they did something right.

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2007-09-06 10:28am

Was Ozzel being a incompetent boob or was he really a Rebel double agent with nostalgia for the Old Republic? If Death Squandron was a crack warship battlegroup that really was best of the best, led by a harsh taskmaster like Vader, I wonder why somebody like Ozzel got commissioned as the Imperial with the highest official rank onboard the Executor in the first place...

TC Pilot · Post by **TC Pilot** » 2007-09-06 10:46am

Unquestionably Imperial Intelligence was superior.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2007-09-06 11:18am

well the Empire had Clone Intelligence and Republic Intelligence (yes they are seperate) to build on, while the Alliance to Restore the Republic had the intelligence agencies of Alderaan, Corellia, Chandrilla at first.

Tiriol · Post by **Tiriol** » 2007-09-06 11:20am

Big Orange wrote:Was Ozzel being a incompetent boob or was he really a Rebel double agent with nostalgia for the Old Republic? If Death Squandron was a crack warship battlegroup that really was best of the best, led by a harsh taskmaster like Vader, I wonder why somebody like Ozzel got commissioned as the Imperial with the highest official rank onboard the Executor in the first place...

At least during the events of Timothy Zahn's Allegiance novel Ozzel is described as incompetent, but not traitorous (although he and an ISB colonel did try to take out the Emperor's Hand indirectly). It appeared that he was lacking in courage and brain department - but treasonous? No.

The_Saint · Post by **The_Saint** » 2007-09-07 05:59am

I don't have the book handy, but in Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina it has a storm trooper recruit starting out as an AT-AT pilot and after using the tactic of kneeling to prevent fighters from flyng "under the legs where I cna't shoot them... they could tie my legs together with tow cables" and a high officer in attendance (who I *think* is Veers, would need to check the book) tells the Trooper to keep the tactic to himself and he gets side tracked to Tatooine......... where he has thoughts of turning to the rebels... maybe he'd give them the cable tying idea...

Anyway... shows both a storm trooper having second thoughts about the system and that someone high in the empire was keeping mum over important details that would later be used by the Rebellion.

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2007-09-07 07:33am

The_Saint wrote:I don't have the book handy, but in Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina it has a storm trooper recruit starting out as an AT-AT pilot and after using the tactic of kneeling to prevent fighters from flyng "under the legs where I cna't shoot them... they could tie my legs together with tow cables" and a high officer in attendance (who I *think* is Veers, would need to check the book) tells the Trooper to keep the tactic to himself and he gets side tracked to Tatooine......... where he has thoughts of turning to the rebels... maybe he'd give them the cable tying idea...

He did, but Veers didn't tell him to keep it to himself, he had him transferred to the Stormtrooper Corps, his name was Davin Felth or 'Look, Sir! Droids!' Sandtrooper, he destroyed the Sandcrawler and the Lars Homestead, he's also the ST who shot his commander in the back at Docking Bay 94. Then he started selling information to the Rebs.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2007-09-07 10:23am

I still can't see how an AT-AT would be able to kneel.

Warsie · Post by **Warsie** » 2007-09-07 01:05pm

Big Orange wrote: If Death Squandron was a crack warship battlegroup that really was best of the best, led by a harsh taskmaster like Vader, I wonder why somebody like Ozzel got commissioned as the Imperial with the highest official rank onboard the Executor in the first place...

The power vacuum formed after Yavin allowed Ozzel to rise so highly; seen the "Revisionist DS" thread; millions died, possibly billions of Imperials on the DS. Much of the High Command and "The Empire's most aggressive admirals" (X-wing series) died

drachefly · Post by **drachefly** » 2007-09-07 03:05pm

FTeik wrote:I still can't see how an AT-AT would be able to kneel.

Why not? It's how people get on and off in the absence of special docking facilities. They are troop transports, after all.

They might reverse their knees to do it, but that's no problem.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2007-09-07 05:54pm

I would say the winners of the "intelligence war" could very well be the Bothans, who IIRC played Both sides and despite being set up by the Empire into the trap at Endor, the battle was still won and the Bothans became a big player in the New Republic.

Adam Reynolds · Post by **Adam Reynolds** » 2007-09-08 05:51pm

drachefly wrote: Why not? It's how people get on and off in the absence of special docking facilities. They are troop transports, after all.

They might reverse their knees to do it, but that's no problem.

the main site wrote wrote: One mystery about the AT-AT is its method of troop deployment. We've only seen people debark from an AT-AT once, and that occurred in ROTJ when Luke Skywalker was escorted from an AT-AT's "head" into a special elevated platform (you can see the walker approaching the platform in the picture at right). This didn't solve the mystery at all, since the AT-AT cannot expect to have special elevated platforms ready whenever someone wants to get out! Some of the official literature describes the walker "kneeling" in order to unload troops from a rear hatch, but no rear hatch is visible. Furthermore, the process of kneeling down to debark troops is extremely difficult to conceptualize. Its ankle joints don't appear to have enough freedom of motion to permit such a maneuver, and the very idea is questionable since it would involve a temporary loss of mobility. It's hard to imagine anyone deliberately designing an armoured transport in such a manner, but the official literature is not unanimous on this claim.

The SWICS shows troopers lining up to jump out of a side hatch near the back of the walker body, in much the same way as modern paratroopers jump out of an aircraft's side door. It explains that "AT-AT walkers can unleash their assault forces in several rapid waves using drop-lines with attached harnesses." This makes much more sense than the physically, tactically and logically questionable idea of the walkers kneeling to unload, since the AT-AT would lose none of its combat capabilities during this process. Troopers on speeder bikes could simply fly out of the side hatch, while other troopers could either slide down the drop-lines or use jet-packs and/or repulsor harnesses to deploy from the side hatch with a modicum of air mobility, so that there is no risk of being crushed by the AT-AT's elephantine feet if they deploy while it is in motion.

This speaks for itself

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2007-09-09 06:55pm

Adamskywalker007 wrote:This speaks for itself

Despite being well verse in this field, I'm afraid Mike is not in charge of what is canon and what isn't in the Star Wars franchise.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-09-09 07:00pm

General Schatten wrote: Despite being well verse in this field, I'm afraid Mike is not in charge of what is canon and what isn't in the Star Wars franchise.

The idea of kneeling AT-ATs on the battlefield has always been stupid. I don't hate the EU on a whim, you know - ignoring dumb shit from WEG is pretty much SOP.

Duckie · Post by **Duckie** » 2007-09-09 07:25pm

As stupid as the idea is, Mike's objection that the knee joints aren't flexible enough makes the assumption that they kneel on their knees and feet and not on their shins like it's been shown. [Edit: Although, how they stand back up is a mystery.]

It's still retarded though, since it would freeze the walker in place and make it rather vulnerable- not to mention kneeling would still make it too high up to jump out of. I'd install a retractable ramp myself, and just have it slow down or stop moving and people get off that way, although the parachute jump out also makes sense if you don't want to stop the thing to disembark troops.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-09-09 11:46pm

Wait, art shows them kneeling like a cat, with their shins tucked under the hull, and not feet-flat with the legs bent at the knees? Dear me.