Immortality Morality

[Ar-Adunakhor]

Due to an act of magic you have been granted the following powers. After the description of said powers will be the meat of the problem, namely what you would do in the situation. Feel free to answer parts of the questions and skip others, or add in your own observations. I am very interested in seeing what the denizens of SDN have to say on this.

*Poof*
You have been granted Regenerative Immortality! What is Regenerative Immortality you ask?

The good:

• You do not age! Neither your mind nor your body will be adversely affected by the passage of time, but you will be able to learn/remember/ect. normally.
• If you are mentally or psycologically handicapped you are able to choose if you will 'fix' it and to what extent.
• Every time you 'die' your body is instantly repaired to the state of your fully functional 20-30 year old (you choose when) self without an interruption of concious thought.
• If vaporized, a new body is created somewhere safe (determined through magical voodoo to truly be safe) with the same non-interruption of concious thought. If being repeatedly killed (the frequency of death used to activate this is your choice) the same new-body situation happens.
• You are able to throw a 'kill-switch' to kill yourself and reincarnate in a safe place (magical voodoo again) in the event of being bound/tortured/held captive/ect..
• If you truly want to, you can instantly and permanantly end your existence. You are the only one who can do this and it can only be done when you are in a normal mental state. Torture qualifies as an abnormal mental state, as do mind-altering drugs of any type.

The bad:

• Death is not free and mass is conserved. The magic kills one completely random person somewhere on Earth every time you die and consumes their body in order to repair yours. If needed, more people will be killed for more materiel to repair your body. If the person had more mass than you, the leftovers are left to rot wherever the person was before dying. A new 'source' person is used for every death and the person used always dies, even if only a few atoms were used.
• You still feel all the pain and have all the crappy experiences that come with death.
• The only way to repair non-lethal damage to your body that cannot normally be healed (natural healing and drugs/surgery/medical practices both work) is to kill yourself. When you die you will be fully repaired.
• When you run out of humans, you run out of lives.
• Science never can and never will understand any principle behind RI, and it will never benefit through researching it. At best you could minimize the time, money, and effort wasted trying to do so.

The variations:

• Suppose that when you die you can make the new body any way you wish. Want angel wings that let you fly? The magic can do it. Same rules as before, and every change requires a suicide.
• Suppose that it is Generic Sapient Species X from Galaxy Across the Universe CLXXIII that feeds your regeneration and by act of plot we will never encounter them. Ever. Assume they breed and have the same resources as humans for the purposes of "running out of lives".
• Suppose that every time you 'die' you have a 1 in 1,000,000 chance of actual death.
• Suppose that the people who replace you in death are not random but instead are drawn from those closest to you (family, friends, ect.) and move to those you are less close to once they are exhausted.
• Suppose the converse of the above.
• Suppose that guilty murderers/rapists/bad people (defined by your criteria) are killed in exchange for your immortality.

Now, based on the above would you and your lifestyle change? How? Why?

Would you reveal your immortality or conceal it? Bear in mind that through death you are able to escape from captivity should you wish to, and with the variations you could look like anything or anyone.

Regenerative Immortality is on very shaky moral grounds with many moral and ethical codes. How would you resolve this? Would you end yourself due to the potential to harm humanity by killing those more useful than you? Would you not care because this is you we are talking about? Would you say "Screw this!" and change your moral code?

What about the variations? Would always killing strangers make it more acceptable if were going to end yourself before? Criminals? Sapient Aliens?

Suppose you run out of your preferred variation kill-group. Would you expand your criteria if otherwise it meant your death?

And no, you don't keep the scars caused by the wounds that kill you.

[Justforfun000]

Damn. I was getting excited at just the Good points and hoping for those. lol.

You HAD to throw in moral dilemmas.

[Andrew_Fireborn]

... Right, so priority one is gathering resources.

Using what would appear, for a good long while, to others a healthy life, to accrue a large pocket of wealth, acquire a few large, diversified corporations to ensure net profitability. With proper planning and investment, it could be possible in under forty years. At that point, it would become more apparent that I was not aging to those around me. However, due to the benefits, this revelation it would be negligible.

At that point, I would begin moving my assets towards stellar exploration and exploitation. And utilizing extra finances for... personal amusement. Add in a few philanthropic acts to get and keep the public opinion high.



Who knows, too many variables... but ultimately I'd use it to steer mankind towards space and hopefully enlightenment... But, I don't think the latter would happen even with a billion more years to the species name.

[FedRebel]

Now, based on the above would you and your lifestyle change? How? Why?

I would focus more on investment and learning to become an expert hacker

the immortality angle would also permit me to exploit avenues for gaining wealth that are otherwise too risky

Would you reveal your immortality or conceal it? Bear in mind that through death you are able to escape from captivity should you wish to, and with the variations you could look like anything or anyone.

I would conceal it, either way (the "stock" scenario or the variations) exposing my talents publicly would lead to undue attention

The variations permit me an avenue to more easily adopt a new identity, that is all

Regenerative Immortality is on very shaky moral grounds with many moral and ethical codes. How would you resolve this? Would you end yourself due to the potential to harm humanity by killing those more useful than you? Would you not care because this is you we are talking about? Would you say "Screw this!" and change your moral code?

I would not abuse the regenerative aspect, I would only use it if it was truly necessary.

Overall my goal would be to become wealthy enough that I can become a recluse living on a private island (so I wouldn't have to worry about the IRS) whenever I go to the mainland (well after I was supposed to die off) I'd claim to be a descendant of myself with all supporting documents (forged ofcourse, but valid enough to pass inspection) to prove lineage, should it be necessary

What about the variations? Would always killing strangers make it more acceptable if were going to end yourself before? Criminals? Sapient Aliens?

strangers, criminals, and aliens wouldn't be too much of a concern (out of sight, out of mind)

Family would bring a level of concern, however were that variation forced my overall plans wouldn't change much as I plan to limit regeneration whenever possible, all this would do is make the decision to change more difficult

Suppose you run out of your preferred variation kill-group. Would you expand your criteria if otherwise it meant your death?

How would i know when I run out?



I'm saving the variations for last since they appear to be 'optional' packages

The variations:

• Suppose that when you die you can make the new body any way you wish. Want angel wings that let you fly? The magic can do it. Same rules as before, and every change requires a suicide.

This would make changing identities far easier, should it be required for me to drastically change my appearance

[*]Suppose that it is Generic Sapient Species X from Galaxy Across the Universe CLXXIII that feeds your regeneration and by act of plot we will never encounter them. Ever. Assume they breed and have the same resources as humans for the purposes of "running out of lives".

How would I know when I "run out"?

Anyways it's out of sight, out of mind domain

[*]Suppose that every time you 'die' you have a 1 in 1,000,000 chance of actual death.

That makes choosing to die inorder to escape dangerous situations or in order to alter appearance a far more challenging decision

overall, since my plans are to limit use of it as much as possible, I view this as an acceptable risk

[*]Suppose that the people who replace you in death are not random but instead are drawn from those closest to you (family, friends, ect.) and move to those you are less close to once they are exhausted.

This makes things difficult and limits use of regeneration to emergency situations which I'd avoid at all costs

[*]Suppose that guilty murderers/rapists/bad people (defined by your criteria) are killed in exchange for your immortality.[/list]

Out of sight, out of mind, and they deserve to die

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The obvious moral way to go about this is to immediately sequester yourself in such a fashion that your death is an exceptionally unlikely event, and remain that way for your entire natural life. Should your death become something that is certain to be a regular occurrence, you should terminate yourself.

With any luck you'll get several hundred to several thousand years of living deep inside a fortified bunker palace out of it.

[Starglider]

Did you rip this off from 'Planescape: Torment'?

Obviously this would make Taking Over The World (tm) much easier, and after I've done that I'd make everyone else immortal (and maybe enlightened) anyway, using Science! (r) rather than magic, so the 'curse' would become irrelevant.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

Well, first, no more constant J-walking. I want to live a good near-eternity without killing others. The escape powers will only be used if absolutely necessary to guarantee my life and health (ie, captured and tortured constantly, or trapped under an avalanche). I don't think for a minute I'd be altruistic enough under those sorts of circumstances to commit suicide to prevent others dying.

Second, awesome! I put my talents now towards accumulating a very, very large sum of money so I can live off the interest later. What's 40 years of a job I hate next to an eternity?

Finally, rocks! I have all the time I'll ever need to do what I've always considered impractical. I can learn Farsi, Afrikaans and Greek. I can travel to every country under the sun. I can get a Master's Degree in every field and write dozens of novels no one will ever read. Fantastic.

[Adrian Laguna]

I think moral degeneration is inevitable within a few centuries.

[Temjin]

I try to live out the first life as long as possible. If I die, I choose not to reincarnate.

The idea of extending my own life at the expense of prematurely ending another's is morally reprehensible to me, no matter who the victim of it is.

[Jaevric]

The variations:

• Suppose that when you die you can make the new body any way you wish. Want angel wings that let you fly? The magic can do it. Same rules as before, and every change requires a suicide.

I wouldn't do anything that bizzare, not to mention obvious. Any physical changes I made to myself would be minor and unobtrusive.

[*]Suppose that it is Generic Sapient Species X from Galaxy Across the Universe CLXXIII that feeds your regeneration and by act of plot we will never encounter them. Ever. Assume they breed and have the same resources as humans for the purposes of "running out of lives".

Honestly, wouldn't bother me in the least. I'd have no emotional connection to them of any sort, and no ability to relate to them. You may as well tell me a single-celled algae is going to die every time I'm regenerated.

[*]Suppose that every time you 'die' you have a 1 in 1,000,000 chance of actual death.

Meh. The odds of permanently dying are so small as to not be worth worrying about. I wouldn't intentionally go out and try to get myself killed anyway, since it seems like it would be an unpleasant experience.

[*]Suppose that the people who replace you in death are not random but instead are drawn from those closest to you (family, friends, ect.) and move to those you are less close to once they are exhausted.

I'd permanently end my own existence immediately. Wealth and immortality are fun and all, but knowing that anyone I met and grew close to could die due to my own actions or inactions? No thanks.

[*]Suppose the converse of the above.

I just don't know. I'd probably die a few dozen times and decide between the bad memories and the knowledge that I was killing people who may or may not deserve it, decide immortality is overrated and permanently end my existence.

[*]Suppose that guilty murderers/rapists/bad people (defined by your criteria) are killed in exchange for your immortality.

Immortality, here I come! If I'm guaranteed that only people who really committed specific crimes would die to regenerate me, I wouldn't worry all that much about it. I figure I'm doing society a favor at the same time as I'm doing myself one, and it's not like I'm ever going to run out of "bad people." I'd set the threshold fairly high; serious crimes where intent to do physical harm existed, not property-type crimes, and even still I don't think I'd run out of "supplies."

Now, based on the above would you and your lifestyle change? How? Why?

It wouldn't change. Dying seems like it would suck even if it wasn't permanent, and I don't have any really unhealthy habits that might lead to me experiencing it more often than otherwise. Nor do I have an overwhelming urge to try to get myself killed through sheer excessive indulgence just to see what it's like.

Would you reveal your immortality or conceal it? Bear in mind that through death you are able to escape from captivity should you wish to, and with the variations you could look like anything or anyone.

Conceal it. Revealing it would just cause problems.

Regenerative Immortality is on very shaky moral grounds with many moral and ethical codes. How would you resolve this? Would you end yourself due to the potential to harm humanity by killing those more useful than you? Would you not care because this is you we are talking about? Would you say "Screw this!" and change your moral code?

What about the potential to help humanity by killing those less useful to me, or who are a real threat to society? What about the sheer number of people who are living lives of day-to-day misery in third world hellholes who starve to death or die of AIDs every day, and using them up just hastens the process slightly? There are billions of people on the planet, and I'd have to die an awful lot to make a significant dent in the population. The chances of the guy who is would have found a cure for AIDs or become lead the world into real space travel being the guy the magic kills off for my benefit are pretty slim. Probably less likely than the odds of that same person being struck by lightning or eaten by a shark, much less killed in a car wreck or something equally mundane.

What about the variations? Would always killing strangers make it more acceptable if were going to end yourself before? Criminals? Sapient Aliens?

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Suppose you run out of your preferred variation kill-group. Would you expand your criteria if otherwise it meant your death?

I don't think so, but after a few thousand years of this, my ego may have grown sizeable enough that expending "one or two more lives" won't matter to me much. On the other hand, my preferred kill group would be sizeable enough that this isn't likely to be an issue unless I take up Russian Roulette as a hobby anyway.

[Guardsman Bass]

Obviously, I would try to avoid getting myself killed as much as possible, and take great care with my appearance (this might become more difficult as technology and identification becomes more complex, but presumably my skills at this would grow too, since I can't die).

I would first set up my own success, in the form of various bank accounts and other long-lasting investments (U.S. Treasury Bonds? I have the time to sit on them for a while.) Then it would be interesting to observe and dabble.

I think it might be interesting to watch how some family lines breed out. Not anything like eugenics, but maybe like picking 100 people, then subtly helping them out in various ways in the background, and then seeing how things turn out for them and their descendants as time goes on. You know, maybe in 150 years, that impoverished African farmer is now a wealthy businessman, or ruler of a country.

[Starglider]

[*]Suppose that it is Generic Sapient Species X from Galaxy Across the Universe CLXXIII that feeds your regeneration and by act of plot we will never encounter them. Ever. Assume they breed and have the same resources as humans for the purposes of "running out of lives".

Honestly, wouldn't bother me in the least. I'd have no emotional connection to them of any sort, and no ability to relate to them. You may as well tell me a single-celled algae is going to die every time I'm regenerated.

Presumably you have no problem with them identifying you as the source of their random deaths, hunting you down, imprisoning you in a padded cell for all eternity and maybe torturing you a bit just to get revenge for all the murders you committed.

[Adrian Laguna]

Presumably you have no problem with them identifying you as the source of their random deaths, hunting you down, imprisoning you in a padded cell for all eternity and maybe torturing you a bit just to get revenge for all the murders you committed.

One of the stated abilities is:

"You are able to throw a 'kill-switch' to kill yourself and reincarnate in a safe place (magical voodoo again) in the event of being bound/tortured/held captive/ect..."

With the powers given, one can laugh at the highest security measures in existence.

[Starglider]

"You are able to throw a 'kill-switch' to kill yourself and reincarnate in a safe place (magical voodoo again) in the event of being bound/tortured/held captive/ect..."

Yeah and the original post specified that it was impossible for these aliens to catch up with him anyway, my point was that if it could be done, under his moral system it would (presumably) be perfectly moral for the aliens to do so.

If your moral system 'I can be as much of a dick as I like as long as it only hurts strangers and/or people can't catch me', you have no basis for complaint when others apply the same moral system to you.

[RogueIce]

"You are able to throw a 'kill-switch' to kill yourself and reincarnate in a safe place (magical voodoo again) in the event of being bound/tortured/held captive/ect..."

Yeah and the original post specified that it was impossible for these aliens to catch up with him anyway, my point was that if it could be done, under his moral system it would (presumably) be perfectly moral for the aliens to do so.

If your moral system 'I can be as much of a dick as I like as long as it only hurts strangers and/or people can't catch me', you have no basis for complaint when others apply the same moral system to you.

True, though I doubt he'll care since he's made the decision under the benefit of a system that will not only let him get out of it, but as an added "bonus" take out another of this species at the same time (possibly one of the ones who tried to torture him).

It's apparently a whole lot easier to be a total dick when you can get away with it. Which probably explains Superman...

I suppose that's one of the lessons of this, if you want to think of it like that. If you've got some system like this where you can essentially get away with whatever you want and there really isn't shit they can do to you (especially under the original system, without some of the variations), how many people will really stick with a moral code and how many will use it to gain an advantage? And if in the course of it they need to off some random schmoe to regenerate for whatever reason...well tough luck.

[Adrian Laguna]

Yeah and the original post specified that it was impossible for these aliens to catch up with him anyway, my point was that if it could be done, under his moral system it would (presumably) be perfectly moral for the aliens to do so.

If your moral system 'I can be as much of a dick as I like as long as it only hurts strangers and/or people can't catch me', you have no basis for complaint when others apply the same moral system to you.

Ah sorry, I missed your point entirely.

[K. A. Pital]

Good way: slowly become an immortal God-Emperor via accumulating knowledge, wisdom, resources and power.

Bad way: become an eternal guerilla soldier for whatever cause you find noble. This would actually be funny, since people whom you wish to kill in the struggle will be certainly amazed by your immortality. That solution sounds like Alucard

[RogueIce]

Bad way: become an eternal guerilla soldier for whatever cause you find noble. This would actually be funny, since people whom you wish to kill in the struggle will be certainly amazed by your immortality. That solution sounds like Alucard

Even better: under the "guilty people die so you come back" variation, it's left up to your standards as to who is guilty. So it's quite possible that you can decide your enemies are guilty of whatever grand crime so that each time they kill you, you're taking another of them to resurrect.

Won't that be a bitch for your foes?

[PeZook]

So...I essentially become a vampire, except I can move in sunlight. While some of my colleagues would love to become an inhuman monster with insane superpowers for the small, small price of feeding on the living, I would be unable to live with the guilt.

Nothing would change for me. I'll live through my natural life, start a family, raise a child, then off myself.

The only part where maybe immortality would be appreciated is when monsters like me are used to regenerate myself. I'd only use murderers, and only the particularly sadistic ones at that. Then I'd try to steer the world towards a brighter future, but I have little hope for humanity.

And, quite frankly, when my wife died of old age in my hands, I'd probably off myself anyway.

[Starglider]

True, though I doubt he'll care since he's made the decision under the benefit of a system that will not only let him get out of it, but as an added "bonus" take out another of this species at the same time (possibly one of the ones who tried to torture him).

Which will make it all the more ironic when I define him as the person most worthy of dying and he discovers that the only thing that can actually kill him is having his life sucked by the regeneration of another immortal. Good thing I thought of it first eh?

[K. A. Pital]

Even better: under the "guilty people die so you come back" variation, it's left up to your standards as to who is guilty. So it's quite possible that you can decide your enemies are guilty of whatever grand crime so that each time they kill you, you're taking another of them to resurrect.

Won't that be a bitch for your foes?

Ohhhh... that's much better than the Death Note - you can kill at will, but you're also immortal Actually, given the amount of truly bad people, I think it's rather hard for a person not to become Yagami Light 2.0 under such circumstances.

All world leaders before me would be a pale shadow, all religious figures - a zero, this would be a miracle of such gigantic proprotions that I would inevitably start a new world cult with me as it's eternal and undying leader, swiftly killing whoever I find evil enough to kill.

[PeZook]

All world leaders before me would be a pale shadow, all religious figures - a zero, this would be a miracle of such gigantic proprotions that I would inevitably start a new world cult with me as it's eternal and undying leader, swiftly killing whoever I find evil enough to kill.

Peace through power! Peace through power! All hail Kane!

Kane lives!

Sorry, I just couldn't resist

[Darth Tanner]

Roughly 150,000 people die every day, most of them through natural causes. If I need to take a life and are not so inclined to start playing judge jury and executioner with criminals then its easy to simply end someones life who's dieing anyways a second earlier.

The main problem I can see is that by not aging your going to have great problem fitting into society for any length of time. Relationships are going to be difficult and the state is going to become rather interested in you when your passport and other papers start to say your 200 years old.

The papers should be relatively easy to aquire forgeries of, or simply tell the gov it made a mistake with your date of birth, it's not like their going to expect you to be an immortal.

The relationship thing is still going to be a bitch though. Immortlaity is going to be lonely.

I think the main objective is going to be to aquire enough money to retire and live off the interest and then to bow out of society, concentrating on the arts and learning. Alternatively join the army.

[Invictus ChiKen]

Hmm what if someone sedated me then kept me under anesthesia forever? Or could this trigger the trapped kill switch?

If it doesn't... BOW BEFORE YOUR NEW GOD!

[Mr Bean]

All world leaders before me would be a pale shadow, all religious figures - a zero, this would be a miracle of such gigantic proprotions that I would inevitably start a new world cult with me as it's eternal and undying leader, swiftly killing whoever I find evil enough to kill.

Peace through power! Peace through power! All hail Kane!

Kane lives!

Sorry, I just couldn't resist

Kane lives in death!
Come to think of it, my first move MIGHT be a legal renaming to Kane.

Then the money, then the women, then the empire.

The only serious issue I would have with this immortality thing was if it was purely random, IE I might croak grandma a few months earlier or I might be killing a baby.