Battletech Vs. Star Trek

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Post by Hotfoot »

Damn, didn't realize this had veered off into another mech vs. tanks thread. Ah well.

First things first, the Clans have no problem bidding with each other when facing "honorless" enemies. Don't know if they've altered this post-3060, as that's when I stopped really paying any attention to the Storyline (with the destruction of Smoke Jaguar and the restoration of the Star League), but prior to that, and with the initial invasion of the Inner Sphere, they would constantly bid with each other to see who could conquer a planet with the least amount of forces. An interesting concept, but it smacks of an unhealthy dose of arrogance, which is in part what allowed for their defeats.

Next, I enjoy Heavy Gear very much myself, and out of the available mecha worlds, it is by far the most realistic and true to life. However, being the most realistic mecha universe is a bit like "Disco's Greatest Hits". :wink Naturally, when I'm playing, I engage my willing suspension of disbelief to allow for the existance of mecha, which isn't too difficult, as at least Heavy Gear is, for the most part, highly consistant with both itself and reality, except for a few things here and there. Of course, I prefer playing in the Heavy Gear world, rather than the tactical game, so it kind of evens out.

Finally, the entire concept of "peeling the onion" is crap. If a lot of smaller shots are more dangerous that one big shot, then please, explain the brutal effectiveness of the Guass Rifle, Arrow IV (which, by its own definition is just one big shot), Thunder LRMS, PPCs, Large Lasers, and so on. Suddenly, "peeling the onion" is no longer so valuable, and bigger, badder weapons are back in. On top of that, in the rules for the Btech tactical game, if you do enough damage to any one section of a battlemech with one shot in one turn, there's a chance of the shot punching through the armor and damaging the internals without stripping off all the armor on that section! Wait, what happened to peeling the onion? Could it have been cheap psuedo-scientific technobabble to justify total nonsense? Gee, I wonder.... :roll:

In short, Btech doesn't even manage to be internally consistant. No wonder they're being pitted against Star Trek. :P
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Post by The_Nice_Guy »

Hotfoot wrote:On top of that, in the rules for the Btech tactical game, if you do enough damage to any one section of a battlemech with one shot in one turn, there's a chance of the shot punching through the armor and damaging the internals without stripping off all the armor on that section! Wait, what happened to peeling the onion? Could it have been cheap psuedo-scientific technobabble to justify total nonsense? Gee, I wonder.... :roll:
Uhhh, not very correct there. The armor still has to be 'peeled' off before the internals are damaged, no matter if it's a piffly machine gun, a PPC, or a honking big HGR slug. I think you shoiuld read up the rules again.

What you might be referring to are the 'chinks' in the armor represented by certain roll results when we're determining hit locations. I hate those roll results, BTW. But they have nothing to do with the amount of damage inflicted. Even a single point damage by a PBI with a LAW might(theoretically speaking) exploit the chink and kill the mech. So the analogy here is that the onion has soft spots. :P

Special equipment like armor piercing autocannon ammo which had suddenly reappeared can also bypass the magic armor. :shock:

Also, a few threads for those interested in this particular topic of BT on why weapons are so sucky in range, armor is so damn strange(2 mm thick on spaceships!?!), and why unarmored infantry cannot be killed by large lasers even if they are only 1.2 kilometers away :lol: , and a whole myriad of other things we know is wrong with BT and then try to come up with (im)plausible explanations for.

http://www.classicbattletech.com/w3t/sh ... ew=&sb=&o=
http://www.classicbattletech.com/w3t/sh ... ew=&sb=&o=

The second thread has a rather interesting armor subdiscussion where a meterials engineer explains why BT armor is frankly quite impossible to exist. It's under the topic "My take on the magic armor of CBT".

Some suggestions made were 'extremely brittle armor", "two layer scales of Wundersteel and Uber Boron Nitride", "extremely flexible amor". My take on it is that we just accept that it's super advanced armor, don't describe it, and acept it as is. When all else fails, the ostrich tactic! :D

Take note, that weapons and armor in BT is the same for tanks and mechs. Ditto for engines and the like. Everything that can be mounted on mechs can also be installed on vehicles.

As for the pseudo-technobabble jibe, well, doesn't that describe 95% of almost all sci-fi? :P

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Post by Sea Skimmer »

closet sci-fi fan wrote:something regarding battletech tech that was taken from a spacebattles debate: ww2 era tanks vs battletech

From "The Machinery of War", by Sigurd Mallory, Blue Star Press circa 2732)
This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. It seems the following was never considered, this list not complete of course but pointing out the bullshit in every other line would be a pain.

[1] Using the damn armor on tanks, which would be much harder to hit with such burst of fire while caring far heavier protection
[2] Using the damn armor material for shells
[3] Using fucking HESH rounds, which work by transmitting shock through the armor to knock a scab off the back
[4] We have guided anti armor missiles the size of large fire extinguishers today, why the fuck do they need to use swarms of unguided ones after hundreds of years of improvements in computers?
[5] Mecha have better mobility why exactly? Physics are against it; they are also against them landing better then a tank in an airdrop.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Sea Skimmer wrote:
closet sci-fi fan wrote:something regarding battletech tech that was taken from a spacebattles debate: ww2 era tanks vs battletech

From "The Machinery of War", by Sigurd Mallory, Blue Star Press circa 2732)
This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. It seems the following was never considered, this list not complete of course but pointing out the bullshit in every other line would be a pain.

[1] Using the damn armor on tanks, which would be much harder to hit with such burst of fire while caring far heavier protection
[2] Using the damn armor material for shells
[3] Using fucking HESH rounds, which work by transmitting shock through the armor to knock a scab off the back
[4] We have guided anti armor missiles the size of large fire extinguishers today, why the fuck do they need to use swarms of unguided ones after hundreds of years of improvements in computers?
[5] Mecha have better mobility why exactly? Physics are against it; they are also against them landing better then a tank in an airdrop.
Here is how to deal with technology in BTech.

Disengage brain.

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Post by Pablo Sanchez »

Alright, here's another random point for tanks that I just thought of:

It would be very fucking hard to put sloped armor on a mech. It is very easy to do so on a tank. This is a huge advantage.
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Post by MKSheppard »

closet sci-fi fan wrote:something regarding battletech tech that was taken from a spacebattles debate: ww2 era tanks vs battletech
Snip drooling mecha drivel

Gee, anyone even thought about putting that uber armor onto an M1A2
and then testing the upgraded M1A2 against that damn mech in a REAL
fight?
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Post by The Dark »

Hotfoot wrote:Damn, didn't realize this had veered off into another mech vs. tanks thread. Ah well.

First things first, the Clans have no problem bidding with each other when facing "honorless" enemies. Don't know if they've altered this post-3060, as that's when I stopped really paying any attention to the Storyline (with the destruction of Smoke Jaguar and the restoration of the Star League), but prior to that, and with the initial invasion of the Inner Sphere, they would constantly bid with each other to see who could conquer a planet with the least amount of forces. An interesting concept, but it smacks of an unhealthy dose of arrogance, which is in part what allowed for their defeats.
True, but they won't try dueling enemies unless they get called out (and the Feds would neither know of this nor have armored units of any type).
Next, I enjoy Heavy Gear very much myself, and out of the available mecha worlds, it is by far the most realistic and true to life. However, being the most realistic mecha universe is a bit like "Disco's Greatest Hits". :wink:
LOL. True. There is no completely realistic mecha right now, though I did read something in PopSci a while back about some company developing construction robots.
Naturally, when I'm playing, I engage my willing suspension of disbelief to allow for the existance of mecha, which isn't too difficult, as at least Heavy Gear is, for the most part, highly consistant with both itself and reality, except for a few things here and there. Of course, I prefer playing in the Heavy Gear world, rather than the tactical game, so it kind of evens out.
PM with inconsistencies, if you don't mind? I've only got about half the books, and no storyline ones, since my FLGS is crap. And of course, there must always being willing suspension of disbelief in any advanced science fiction, particularly those with: mecha, FTL, force fields, and hand-portable directed energy weapons (just the first ones to come to mind as highly improbable).
Finally, the entire concept of "peeling the onion" is crap. If a lot of smaller shots are more dangerous that one big shot, then please, explain the brutal effectiveness of the Guass Rifle, Arrow IV (which, by its own definition is just one big shot), Thunder LRMS, PPCs, Large Lasers, and so on.
Or artillery.
In short, Btech doesn't even manage to be internally consistant. No wonder they're being pitted against Star Trek. :P
ROFL. They're about equal on the internal consistency, ST had the advantage in space propulsion, BT has the advantage in ground warfare. I still find it amusing how the JCML (Jovian Chronicles Mailing List, a group that uses the same rules as Heavy Gear) calculated the firepower of a PPC off the damage ratio between a BT Machine Gun and an HG Heavy Machine Gun. Turns out a PPC is a x18 weapon...rather low powered for such large vehicles (and the heaviest armored 'Mech converted[the Hunchback] has 25/50/75 armor, or roughly the same as a Mammoth, which is slightly less than half the size).
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Post by Hotfoot »

The_Nice_Guy wrote: Uhhh, not very correct there. The armor still has to be 'peeled' off before the internals are damaged, no matter if it's a piffly machine gun, a PPC, or a honking big HGR slug. I think you shoiuld read up the rules again.

What you might be referring to are the 'chinks' in the armor represented by certain roll results when we're determining hit locations. I hate those roll results, BTW. But they have nothing to do with the amount of damage inflicted. Even a single point damage by a PBI with a LAW might(theoretically speaking) exploit the chink and kill the mech. So the analogy here is that the onion has soft spots. :P
Eh, mixed up the rules for armor and the rules for making an engine go critical. Still, if multiple shots work better than one shot, it doesn't explain why those big one-shot weapons do so much damage. By all rights, it should be impossible for the Gauss rifle to work (as well as any other one-shot wonder), and yet it does, quite well.
Special equipment like armor piercing autocannon ammo which had suddenly reappeared can also bypass the magic armor. :shock:
Yes, after a thousand years, they have finally developed armor-piercing ammunition. Maybe if they handn't wasted their time on making walking houses that can carry amazingly low-quality guns, they could have developed an M1-A1. :P
Also, a few threads for those interested in this particular topic of BT on why weapons are so sucky in range, armor is so damn strange(2 mm thick on spaceships!?!), and why unarmored infantry cannot be killed by large lasers even if they are only 1.2 kilometers away :lol: , and a whole myriad of other things we know is wrong with BT and then try to come up with (im)plausible explanations for.

http://www.classicbattletech.com/w3t/sh ... ew=&sb=&o=
http://www.classicbattletech.com/w3t/sh ... ew=&sb=&o=

The second thread has a rather interesting armor subdiscussion where a meterials engineer explains why BT armor is frankly quite impossible to exist. It's under the topic "My take on the magic armor of CBT".

Some suggestions made were 'extremely brittle armor", "two layer scales of Wundersteel and Uber Boron Nitride", "extremely flexible amor". My take on it is that we just accept that it's super advanced armor, don't describe it, and acept it as is. When all else fails, the ostrich tactic! :D
Indeed. Well, looks like Whiskey Recon did the brunt of the work already. Ah well. One day, I will make a game in which realistic mecha are taken down by tanks of the same tech level.
Take note, that weapons and armor in BT is the same for tanks and mechs. Ditto for engines and the like. Everything that can be mounted on mechs can also be installed on vehicles.
However, vehicles are given nonsensical critical hit table which makes them twice as likely to get a critical hit than a mech, which flies in the face of all logic. Not only that, but for some reason, vehicular systems are more vulnerable on a main battle tank than a mech. Where a mech would only lose armor, a tank would lose some steering, lock a turret, or even become completely immobilized. Without a massive rewriting of the rules, tanks will never be even close to realistic in BattleTech.
As for the pseudo-technobabble jibe, well, doesn't that describe 95% of almost all sci-fi? :P
Well, if you include every piece of sci-fi ever written, published or not, then yes, I suppose 95% isn't too unrealistic a figure. Of course, being as vague as you are (95% of almost all? So, what? 95% of 80%? 75%? 55%?), you can say whatever you like and still be accurate to some degree. However, by the same token, I can also say with the same degree of accuracy that the same amount of sci-fi is poorly-written, unimaginative, unintelligent trash which is spewed out by people who wouldn't know what good fiction is, much less good science fiction, if it came up to them, kicked them in the nuts, clawed out their eyes, and bit off their hands. :roll:
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Post by Hotfoot »

The Dark wrote:True, but they won't try dueling enemies unless they get called out (and the Feds would neither know of this nor have armored units of any type).
Oh, I dunno. One Elemental versus Worf in one on one combat...should be an...interesting fight. :twisted:
LOL. True. There is no completely realistic mecha right now, though I did read something in PopSci a while back about some company developing construction robots.
Could be interesting, though how humanoid they'll be in the end will have to be seen.
PM with inconsistencies, if you don't mind? I've only got about half the books, and no storyline ones, since my FLGS is crap. And of course, there must always being willing suspension of disbelief in any advanced science fiction, particularly those with: mecha, FTL, force fields, and hand-portable directed energy weapons (just the first ones to come to mind as highly improbable).
Oh, nothing major, really. Just the tech used to make Gears feasible, really. The rest is pretty standard stuff. :wink:
Finally, the entire concept of "peeling the onion" is crap. If a lot of smaller shots are more dangerous that one big shot, then please, explain the brutal effectiveness of the Guass Rifle, Arrow IV (which, by its own definition is just one big shot), Thunder LRMS, PPCs, Large Lasers, and so on.
Or artillery.
Or Ortillery. :twisted:
ROFL. They're about equal on the internal consistency, ST had the advantage in space propulsion, BT has the advantage in ground warfare. I still find it amusing how the JCML (Jovian Chronicles Mailing List, a group that uses the same rules as Heavy Gear) calculated the firepower of a PPC off the damage ratio between a BT Machine Gun and an HG Heavy Machine Gun. Turns out a PPC is a x18 weapon...rather low powered for such large vehicles (and the heaviest armored 'Mech converted[the Hunchback] has 25/50/75 armor, or roughly the same as a Mammoth, which is slightly less than half the size).
Mammoths I think are much, much smaller than a Hunchback, or any mech for that matter. Still, that is quite amusing. On top of that, even the lightest weapons in Heavy Gear seriously outrange anything Btech has to offer. :twisted:
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Post by The_Nice_Guy »

Eh, mixed up the rules for armor and the rules for making an engine go critical. Still, if multiple shots work better than one shot, it doesn't explain why those big one-shot weapons do so much damage. By all rights, it should be impossible for the Gauss rifle to work (as well as any other one-shot wonder), and yet it does, quite well.
Well, those are very big and inefficient guns, after all... :)

Also, we have a certain concept in BT that is known as crit seeking, that is playing the mathematical odds by using weapons which scatter damage all over a mech to hunt out those chinks. Works almost as well as a honking big gun. :twisted:
However, vehicles are given nonsensical critical hit table which makes them twice as likely to get a critical hit than a mech, which flies in the face of all logic. Not only that, but for some reason, vehicular systems are more vulnerable on a main battle tank than a mech. Where a mech would only lose armor, a tank would lose some steering, lock a turret, or even become completely immobilized. Without a massive rewriting of the rules, tanks will never be even close to realistic in BattleTech.
However much we try to look for realism in BT, we have to remember that it's sci-fi, and a sci-fi setting that developed from a tabletop minature game that was designed to be fun, not totally realistic. Yes, it's realistic enough to attract a great deal of attention from gamers, but also not so realistic that it simply turns into another tank boardgame clone.
Well, if you include every piece of sci-fi ever written, published or not, then yes, I suppose 95% isn't too unrealistic a figure. Of course, being as vague as you are (95% of almost all? So, what? 95% of 80%? 75%? 55%?), you can say whatever you like and still be accurate to some degree. However, by the same token, I can also say with the same degree of accuracy that the same amount of sci-fi is poorly-written, unimaginative, unintelligent trash which is spewed out by people who wouldn't know what good fiction is, much less good science fiction, if it came up to them, kicked them in the nuts, clawed out their eyes, and bit off their hands.
I feel inclined to agree with you there. But I'll be a bit clearer and say that it's 95% of all sci-fi that's pseudo-technobabble. :P

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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

After thinking about this for a long, long time, and ignoring it as it was pitting, a technically advanced, militarily moronic society, with inconsistant figures. Agaisnt a force whose military technology is weaker then that of WWII units, and appears to know whtat thier doing with it, but is also extreamly inconsistant with their canon rules.

I would say Victory for Battle Tech, simply on the grounds that Word of Blake or Grey Death Legion on the GROUND, without using Mechs, would walk all over starfleet, and capture ships, createte interference (Preventing transporters) and probly steal ships.
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Post by The_Nice_Guy »

But... but... ST has Kirk! :lol:

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Post by The_Nice_Guy »

And oh yeah, Renegade Legion owns BT!!

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Post by Typhonis 1 »

the rules state that you need to increase the weight of a fusion engine when placing it in a tank to protect the crew from Radiation from it :roll: Sheesh and those cappacitors they mention weigh 1/10th as much as all energy weapons combined .pluss you need enought heat sinks to dissipate the heat and I believe you cant use the new Double strength heat sinks .
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Post by Kamakazie Sith »

The Yosemite Bear wrote:After thinking about this for a long, long time, and ignoring it as it was pitting, a technically advanced, militarily moronic society, with inconsistant figures. Agaisnt a force whose military technology is weaker then that of WWII units, and appears to know whtat thier doing with it, but is also extreamly inconsistant with their canon rules.

I would say Victory for Battle Tech, simply on the grounds that Word of Blake or Grey Death Legion on the GROUND, without using Mechs, would walk all over starfleet, and capture ships, createte interference (Preventing transporters) and probly steal ships.
Basically what you are saying that because ST is so inconsistent then BT should automatically win?
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

No I am saying that they are both inconsistant, but at least Battle Tech has more folks that can think in a guerillia/land war context they will be able to perform acts of sabotage more redily.
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Post by kheegster »

Aye...the warrior can be more important that the weapon he wields, especially when we're talking about hardened fighters vs. pussies who don't know shit...
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Post by Coalition »

Oh, I dunno. One Elemental versus Worf in one on one combat...should be an...interesting fight.
If the Elemental gets a grip, all I can say is Squish!

For Ground combat, Battletech better get out jamers to prevent transporter usage.

In space combat though, Battletech would get slaughtered. Battlespace rules state that if a nuke is detonated in the same hex as a Battlespace ship, all vessels in that hex are lost. (Hex size > ship length)

So if Battletech arrives, the best thing for them to do is talk to the Maquii, and get some upgraded engines (and a replicator), not to mention some engineering manuals.

The best way for them to get money - mercenary jobs as troopers.

I'd love to see the Maquii attack a Cardassian ship, and bring down the shields in one section.

"Gul Damar, we have boarders in deck 12, section 15."

"Send a dozen personnel there to deal with those pesky Maquii."

A few minutes later.

"Gul Damar, the door to the bridge is buckling. We have to set the self-destruct!"

(Maquii beamed over a half dozen troopers in powered armor, with a couple Maquii in environmental suits to guide them to the critical items.)
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Post by Slacker »

Battletech's technical background is absolutely and completely inconsistent. You need to remember that this was started as a game back in the 1980s to cash in on the first Mecha craze, and was made into a real universe only after people realized they really had something there.

That said, there's some absurdly pathetic elements to Btech, some rather impressive elements, and some that just make no sense. An example of the first would be the relation between armor and kinetic impacts, something LordChaos has argued makes Btech absurdly low teched. He also takes the original rules as the highest level of canon, ignoring what both most fans and the people who make CBT consider the highest level of canon-the sourcebooks and novels which portray the universe, of which the board game is a simulation of.

A "wow, that ain't bad" element of Battletech is their aerospace fighters. They have mass/power ratios that make Star Wars fighters look sad (setting aside Superscience affections like inertial dampening). A hundred ton fighter can easily accelerate at four or five gees, with a powerplant massing considerably less then a fifth of that 100 tons. Smaller fighters can hit as high as twelve gees, and this is a universe, again, that doesn't resort to superscience for very much.
There's also something to be said for durability in their construction. In the first book of the Blood of Kerensky trilogy, Tyra Miraborg, well, "Miraborgs" her <i>Shilone</i> fighter into the bridge of the Clan flagship <i>Dire Wolf</i>. Not to piss of any of the Warsies here (Yet, anyway. :D ) but you're talking about a fighter which masses almost three A-wings, and was accelerating over a distance considerably greater then what that A-wing pulled in RotJ. It impacted directly on the forward part of the bridge (The <i>Sovietskii Soyuz</i> class CA being the only Btech warship to have its bridge convienently designed like that), which was at the forward most extremity of the ship.

The resulting kinetic impact and rather spectacular explosion didn't even breach the airlock on the aft end of the bridge. In fact, the ship's HarJel system was able to seal the breach, long enough for a DamCon crew to look for survivors. The ship remained combat capable, and if not for the fact the IlKhan of the Clans had been standing on the bridge at the time, would've done diddly squat.

Of course, then there's just the plain absurd, like the fact that 29.62 tons of diatomic hydrogen fuel being sufficent to accelerate a 2.4 million ton dreadnought at 1 gee for a full 24 hours, but *eh*.


In terms of dimensions, Battletech builds its stuff considerably larger then Star Trek. Dimensions wise (Length/width/beam) the <i>McKenna</i> or <i>Texas</i> class BBs are actually about the same size as your bog standard Impstar Deuce. The <i>Leviathan</i> (the aforementioned 2.4 million ton monster) is actually smaller lengthwise, but is considerably larger in the other two dimensions.

And while 3050 or 3067 warship fleets are nothing to write home about, the 2765 era warship fleets are another story entirely. The Star League Defense Force had a <i>MINIMUM</i> of 15,000 jump-capable warships, the smallest larger dimensionally then an <i>Excelsior</i> class ship. This doesn't count combat capable dropships, of which the number is literally uncountable. They almost all tend to be larger then the <i>Defiant</i>, to boot. The SLDF built sixty of an escort carrier class (the <i>Riga</i>) at a single shipyard in less then twenty years, and that's far from the most produced design out there.

In addition to that number, you've got the fleets of the five Great Houses and the four primary Periphery states, which while considerably smaller individually then the SLDF, they'd add together to another 20,000 ships easily.

And while, yes, a nuke hitting a warship will *kill* that warship, no questions asked, take a real objective look at exactly how many warships in any universe would survive a direct surface-to-surface detonation from a fifty or sixty megaton warhead, with all their technobabble systems off. The fact that during the Amaris Coup and the First Succession War something like fifty or sixty worlds were completely depopulated and rendered lifeless (or nearly so) with nuclear warheads and orbital bombardment says something. The Combine used 250 megaton nukes like candy in their invasion of Dalkieth, and it wasn't even an important world.

The industrial base at the time would be nothing to sneeze at either. You're talking about nearly three thousand worlds, with a combined population of four or five trillion, and it wouldn't have been devestated by three hundred years of war. Even in 3050, the Inner Sphere could probably outproduce the Federation in terms of sheer GNP, all things considered. The biggest problem is that most of that GNP during the Succession Wars was devoted to A: Maintaining a technical base that had been deliberately cripped by Comstar on no less then four occasions, B: Fighting the Succession Wars, and C: Maintaining the infrastructure neccesary to sustain the needs of nearly a hundred several billion people plus worlds that couldn't even grow their own food.

The original designers made something of a mistake when emphasizing how small the IS's JumpShip fleet was, while at the same time setting up worlds like Tharkad, New Syrtis, or Al Na'ir, all systems with populations in the billions range that couldn't feed their population. The fact that those numbers were maintaned in later publications-the FedCom Civil War Sourcebook, for example-but the "We've got no JumpShips' angle was dropped, seems to make things clear that the lack of JumpShips for military operations was a matter of being unable to divert transport from missions they literally couldn't be spared from as opposed to a simple lack of hulls.


But *eh*. Everyone at Spacebattles knows I'm an unabashed Battletech partisan. I'm not denying it. I also happen to have access to virtually every significant sourcebook ever written, and when one considers that the weight of fluff for the universe outweighs the stuff published for Star Trek and Star Wars put together, that's nothing to sneer at.
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Post by Vejut »

Dunno about "most fans", but at the places I frequent (solaris7, CBT like a year ago...), what happens in the game was considered to be what happened, not what was said in the novels, at least as far as tech goes...(i.e. Javlin is unstable according to TRO:3025, but it has no problems on the table. ) Same thing with, say, Phoenix Hawk Targeting systems (Fluffwise, the Tek Tru Trak was awesome...Std. in game), or Catapult jump jets (tend to heat up more than normal in the fluff, not so in the game).

Tanks would have made more sense military wise, no arguement, but as Slacker said--it's a game, made to cash in on the mecha craze. Besides, it's not like ST even has a ground army, much less tanks.
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Post by The Dark »

Just out of curiosity, does anyone on the board have the ORIGINAL 3025 Compendium, before the Harmony Gold/FASA lawsuit? I'd really like to get the data for the Phoenix Hawk and other RT mechs that BT used, since the company's out of business and I can't find the original version (plenty of revised, but no originals).
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Post by Vejut »

Yeppers...what you want to know?
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Post by Slartibartfast »

The Dark wrote:Just out of curiosity, does anyone on the board have the ORIGINAL 3025 Compendium, before the Harmony Gold/FASA lawsuit? I'd really like to get the data for the Phoenix Hawk and other RT mechs that BT used, since the company's out of business and I can't find the original version (plenty of revised, but no originals).
There's a program called MECHWORKS, it's a neat and lightweight program to design Mechs. There's also another one called BattleMech Designer, it's a bit nicer but somewhat cumbersome. Both have mech paks available with the complete list of Mechs, from 3025, 3050, 3055-58 and 3060.

You can find BMD here: http://www.goldstate.net/~eramey/ and the designs too. An advantage is that BMD has description fields for the companies that manufactured each thingy (comm, engines, weapons, etc) and has a quite decent printout.
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Post by Kamakazie Sith »

The Yosemite Bear wrote:No I am saying that they are both inconsistant, but at least Battle Tech has more folks that can think in a guerillia/land war context they will be able to perform acts of sabotage more redily.
I don't doubt that ST forces would get raped on the ground, however they have to get there first. In order to get to a UFP planet they will have to engage Starfleet....
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Post by The Dark »

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
The Yosemite Bear wrote:No I am saying that they are both inconsistant, but at least Battle Tech has more folks that can think in a guerillia/land war context they will be able to perform acts of sabotage more redily.
I don't doubt that ST forces would get raped on the ground, however they have to get there first. In order to get to a UFP planet they will have to engage Starfleet....
If Starfleet can get their one ship in the sector there in time :wink:.
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