SD.net Starships

[timewarp]

Ok, ANY individual spacefaring vessle I want?

Then I pick, THE DYSON SPHERE.

I dont care what ships, bases, or super weapons they have, nothing short of the Sun Crusher is gonna win against that thing.

The only problem is it moves uber slow, and has no exterior weapons.

But then, uber slow to something 2AU wide is still pretty fast.

And there always ramming as a weapon. While not canon, the book Sphere showed its hull to be able to withstand a planetary impact.

And I'm talking an earthsized planet with a comparable [SP] moon.

Really? 'Cause all you have to do is make a hole in it with a Death Star, and start sending Star Destroyers in after you. Once everyone inside is dead, the giant sphere no longer matters, does it?

[Typhonis 1]

Actully any huge hole in the sphere that isnt immediately patched may be a massive problem. Whats keeping the atmosphere from bleeding through said newly formed hole and out into space?

[Alien-Carrot]

the origianl episode indicated (but never actually stated) that the sphere was built from the converted material of 75,000 to 100,000 entire solar systems. (encluding the stars)

According to research, including papers by dyson himself, for a solid state sphere to be stable, it would have to be 100,000k thick at the least.
And this assumes the sphere to be made of superstrong building materials such as buckminsterfullerene.

Actully any huge hole in the sphere that isnt immediately patched may be a massive problem. Whats keeping the atmosphere from bleeding through said newly formed hole and out into space?

Already addressed in the episode. Force fields. Both the extreme outer and inner 1k portions of the sphere were said to be composed of machinery designed to keep the sphere habitable. When the star crashed through, the spheres machinery compensated by placing an extremely tall, (20k i think) force field around the hole. After the star re-entered through the same hole, automated machinery began repairing the wound. The Horta captain calculated that the repairs would be completed with several months.

If thats true, a hole the size of a planet could be repaired in only a few days.

Really? 'Cause all you have to do is make a hole in it with a Death Star, and start sending Star Destroyers in after you. Once everyone inside is dead, the giant sphere no longer matters, does it?

And how many star destroyers do you think it would take to BDZ the enterior of the sphere?

A Dyson sphere in the solar system, with a radius of one AU would have a surface area of at least 2.72e17 km^2, around 600 million times the surface area of the Earth. The sun has a energy output of around 4e26 W, of which most would be available to do useful work.

How long does it take to slag a planet?

It is also known that the attack (on caamas) took less than a day, although we don't know how much less

So assume it takes 12 hours, how many ships?

The use of three star destroyers in this incident as well as the attack on Dankayo may indicate that when it is necessary to eliminate all witnesses, three vessels are required. Given a single ship's inability to fire on ships leaving from the opposite side of the planet, this is not surprising.

bothawui incident

Say you send in 30 stardestroyers. that 10 planets in 12 hours. it would still take 120 MILLION DAYS. Good luck with that.


Now the only problem is again, slow speed, and no exterior weapons.


I wonder if the empire is interested in buying the galaxys largest mobile naval base. Imagine a couple hundred 1/4 power superlasers built into the outer shell of that thing.

Plus a couple billion heavy turbolasers.

[Alien-Carrot]

Really? 'Cause all you have to do is make a hole in it with a Death Star, and start sending Star Destroyers in after you. Once everyone inside is dead, the giant sphere no longer matters, does it?

now that i thin about it, the deathstar itsself could fit through that hole, and with its firepower added in, it would only take 119 million days.

[Peptuck]

Bah. All you'd need to take that Dyson Sphere out is Centerpoint Station - assuming you could haul it around to where the dyson sphere is located - or the ultimate wankfest that is the Sun Crusher.

Enjoy your supernovas.

[Darth Tanner]

it would have to be 100,000k thick at the least

The ST Dyson sphere isn't that thick as I remember it, both doors of the airlock are clearly visible from the outside. Although I suppose it could have multiple doors along the access corridor, as far as I can remember the Ent didn't have to deal with such a long corridor.

I wonder if the empire is interested in buying the galaxys largest mobile naval base

Its not mobile. The non-canon novel has it adjusting itself to miss a Borg neutron asteroid but it still can't move its host star. The series has no evidence that it moves at all other than to maintain its position relative to its host star.

Although the Empire would certainly be interested in it for the science and shear quantity of materials involved it is at the end of the day immobile and unarmed. It could be converted into a stationary star base but to do so would require a massive amount of new hardware installed (guns/ship servicing) and all that investment would be solely reliant on the location of the sphere remaining of tactical use. Using it as a military station is unfeasible as the amount of firepower you would need to bolt onto its exterior to provide even a small amount of coverage would be ridiculous.

Imagine a couple hundred 1/4 power superlasers built into the outer shell of that thing.

Why not just put that money into mobile SD fleets.

All ST novels are non-cannon by Paramount policy, and although the novel in question was quite good it still doesn't count.

Out of interest there's also a series of novels in which Sela and some aliens of the moment install a fully functional cloaking device on the Dyson sphere!

assuming you could haul it around to where the dyson sphere

I thought it could target locations a considerable distance from itself through hyperspace, when it annhilates the Hapan and Vong fleets several sectors away for example. Was there ever any mention of its actual range?

[Knife]

A little bit late, but perhaps I'd take a landable craft (maybe the defient) and a bunch of Edo and some girls from Risa and either go found a colony all by myself and 'drop a lot of hats' or try to settle into SW life on a nice little planet somewhere.

[fusion]

Assumed that the empire could move the sphere, I would use it for the ultimate wank-fest. Just remove the sun and add a hypermatter reactor size of thats sun and a million super lasers. Imagine the possibility, even Wankitine will bow down to me!!!!!

[Starglider]

the origianl episode indicated (but never actually stated) that the sphere was built from the converted material of 75,000 to 100,000 entire solar systems. (encluding the stars)

Evidence? Incidentally this is basically impossible without ridiculously advanced and power-consuming forcefields, since the whole thing would collapse into a black hole during construction, and in any case the Jenolan would be squashed flat when it crash landed on it.

According to research, including papers by dyson himself, for a solid state sphere to be stable, it would have to be 100,000k thick at the least.

Stable how? The star in the centre is stabilised by differential radiation pressure, probably suplemented with reaction control thrusters. The structural integrity of the sphere is based on strength not thickness. What is this 'stable' you're talking about?

And this assumes the sphere to be made of superstrong building materials such as buckminsterfullerene.

The sphere is equally implausible at any thickness, because increasing the thickness increases mass and stress at the same rate it increases strength. All thickening the sphere will do is increase your 'payload' mass (i.e. mass of interior features it can support) assuming your materials meet the minimum mass threshold in the first place.

After the star re-entered through the same hole, automated machinery began repairing the wound. The Horta captain calculated that the repairs would be completed with several months.

Ignoring the fundamental wank of manufacturing 'carbon-neutronium' at that rate, this is using mass from where?

[Stark]

Regardless of it's construction, wouldn't holes in the sphere destabilise it's mass and cause it to collapse?

[Starglider]

Regardless of it's construction, wouldn't holes in the sphere destabilise it's mass and cause it to collapse?

Get with the program Stark. This is Star Trek. In the face of any kind of structural plausibility issue, the Darkstar-approved response is to chant 'force fields, force fields, force fields' until your opponent gives up and goes away.

[drachefly]

Anyway, I don't think the dyson sphere counts as 'standard configuration'.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

All ST novels are non-cannon by Paramount policy, and although the novel in question was quite good it still doesn't count.

Out of interest there's also a series of novels in which Sela and some aliens of the moment install a fully functional cloaking device on the Dyson sphere!

I think that was one of the 'Double Helix' books in the 'New Frontier' storyline. Though how it could be anywhere near the size of the canon dyson sphere is beyond me, as there wasn't even a star inside this one . It had a breatheable atmosphere in the centre, where the cloaking device was

[Stark]

Get with the program Stark. This is Star Trek. In the face of any kind of structural plausibility issue, the Darkstar-approved response is to chant 'force fields, force fields, force fields' until your opponent gives up and goes away.

True, I'd forgotten that any huge multiple-stellar mass arranged around a star would clearly be submerged in subspace and thus as stable as any regular size structure. Looking at things intuitively is far superior to crunching the numbers on astoundingly large structures, as we well know.

What terrifies me most is I think I *remember* the ST novel where Sela cloaks some huge artificial alien planet. That is an unknown horror clutching at my mercifully fleeting memory.

[Starglider]

What terrifies me most is I think I *remember* the ST novel where Sela cloaks some huge artificial alien planet.

Did this require a huge array of cloaking field generators powered by several thousand oversized warp cores, or did she use a handy tabletop device with a self-contained power suppy?

[Darth Tanner]

Did this require a huge array of cloaking field generators powered by several thousand oversized warp cores, or did she use a handy tabletop device with a self-contained power suppy?

It was a single large version of the device Kirk steals. About the size of a house if memory serves. It was in no way connected to the exterior of the Dyson sphere. Also it was highly explosive for some reason.

Also I think it important to note that she built this thing while a renegade from the Romulan Star Empire and with the resources of only a couple of warbirds.

As far as I can remember it was powered by the star within the Dyson sphere directly.

landable craft (maybe the defient)

Is the Defiant landable? I didn't think Star Fleet built its ships to land or even operate within an atmosphere.

[Starglider]

Also I think it important to note that she built this thing while a renegade from the Romulan Star Empire and with the resources of only a couple of warbirds.

Is the Defiant landable?

According to the fluff (e.g. DS9 tech manual) yes. I don't recall it ever landing in the series though.

I didn't think Star Fleet built its ships to land or even operate within an atmosphere.

Voyager lands about once a season, managing to look vaguely ridiculous every time it does so.

[KlavoHunter]

A Romulan D'Deridex Warbird. Cloaking, modern warp drive... and a simply ENORMOUS volume of empty space in between her upper and lower hulls.

Cribbing ideas from the Gallofree Yards' most famous model of transport, I just close up the open front and back of the Warbird's open center with force fields...

... and become the SD.net Alliance's (or whatever we call ourselves) most enormous freighter.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Just like the SD.net SSD thread, but now we're nearly essentially insignificant.

We each get a Star Trek starship (does it really matter what kind? Take your pick from any species encountered, so long as it's in a standard configuration and not from the future) and its loyal crew, placed anywhere in the SW galaxy we want, at any point in time from just before ANH up to just after tESB. We get to confer with each other before choosing where and when to be placed.

I have some thoughts, but I'd like to see what others come up with first.

The full production version of the Doomsday Machine, as seen in Vendetta. If anything bad happens to my body, it will encase me in crystal, neurally linked to the ship; and it has an anti-proton beam capable of generating an explosion of at least 10^32 joules every so often, and has multidirection emitters for less powerful anti-proton beams which can nonetheless cut apart Borg Cubes with casual ease.

That means that I can actually stand up to significant Imperial fleet elements, and probably make myself useful to the Empire, as a matter of fact. Warping into Coruscant space and nailing them before they can raise their planetary shields to kill the Emperor is, however, another alternative, and one that certainly offers plenty of opportunity for me. The neutronium hull should stand up very well to what can be thrown at me by conventional ships, the suicide ramming down the maw option was fixed from the prototype, and it's small enough that it can't be easily targeted by anti-planetary weapons.

[Peptuck]

Warping into Coruscant space and nailing them before they can raise their planetary shields to kill the Emperor is, however, another alternative, and one that certainly offers plenty of opportunity for me.

Coruscant's planetary shields are always raised.

Not that its going to matter when you can fire 10E32 joules, which is more firepower than the Death Star seems to pack.

[Starglider]

Not that its going to matter when you can fire 10E32 joules, which is more firepower than the Death Star seems to pack.

Anti-proton beams don't necessarily work against shields. If most of the energy comes from the proton-antiproton anhiliations at the target, rather than the kinetic energy of them beam, then they may very well suck against particle shielded targets. In this thread I theorised that this is why the Doomsday Machine's beam did so little damage to the Enterprise/Constellation, compared to its ability to carve up planets.

Where does the 10E32J figure come from?

[Stark]

I encourage everyone to read Vendetta, it's an awesome piece of 'let's make the Doomsday Machine really awesome' stuff. Non-canon and arguably doesn't fit continuity anyway, but hey.

Since the hull of the Doomsday Machine isn't the same 'neutronium' that Imperials use in their armour we don't really know anything about durability aside from a scene I dimly recall where Guinan-2 drives it through something like a blown up planet or some shit.

I also recall the ship being gradually overwhelmed by numbers and sustaining damage against regular ST ships. Is it worth looking at quotes?

I don't understand why 'Peptuck' thinks 10e32 is more firepower than the Death Star, when it's just the GPE of a regular planet. In Vendetta the Super Doomsday Machine goes Unicron, and we get a timeframe on the destruction. The DS does the same thing but in an instant.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The borg fully adapted to its weaponry AND sent like 10 - 20 "super cubes" made out of combinations of multiple of the normal cubes at it, and these were the early TNG borg being shown, not the watered down lame ones of Voyager, and despite all of that the sole damage to the ship came in the form of a small "scar" in the armour which was immediately and automatically sealed over by some form of liquid from inside the vessel, when every single borg ship AND the Enterprise had concentrated all of their weaponry on the same exact spot, after literally days of battering the thing, often with it just ignoring them. In the meantime I lost count but I think that it took out like 30 Borg Cubes of regular size and an equal number of Tholian ships, or more, never once being able to dock for repairs and constantly being hounded.

The anti-proton beams were effective on the smaller scale even from the spike-turrets against fully adapted Borg Cubes, and continued to blow them to pieces until the end of the book. In addition to diving directly through the core of the sun of the Tholian homeworld and an exploding planet, it rammed at least one of the super-cubes and still managed to accelerate to a warp speed so great that it ultimately just splattered itself against the physical constants of the universe. It took out a Tholian web spun by at least 80 ships with casual ease, and damaged most of them by firing at it with enough strength to engage in power-feedback that was ruinous to their weapons systems if not their hulls.

The thing would have been utterly unstoppable except that the Borg actually boarded it and damaged its command centres and the crystalline protection for the controlling entity. They were still defeated inside the ship, though, and it was only the basic total insanity and severe injuries of the director of the vessel which led it onto its suicide race against the physical constraints of the universe. Even as it was doing so, not only were its engines able to operate above spec but its damage was in the process of being prepared by the automated onboard systems. Oh, and it had finished all of the super-cubes by the time it did this, as well; the borg forces were utterly destroyed, and it was accelerating to continue its march of death toward borg territory.

[Jark]

I was going to suggest the Vendetta planet killer, but didn't know if it applied to this thread since it was a novel vessel.

It's been years since I read it, but didn't a Borg cube explode in the mouth of this planet killer, and it had no effect? Does anyone know how large this ship was as well? A piece of text is stuck in my head regarding its size when it was said that the spikes on the back of the ship looked like they could skewer a planet to the core.

Lastly, has anyone ever bothered to calc the pounding the planet killer would've taken as it dove through the Tholian star? Perhaps that can be used to guage just how much of a pounding it can take from Star Wars weaponry.

[drachefly]

As much as I liked Vendetta, if only because it let us see what Riker's deflector dish attack would have done had they not adapted, but I would consider it out of bounds.