My Windows busted?

[Edward Yee]

Basically sometime during the loading (Windows logo / progress bar) on my HP laptop during boot, the screen will quickly 'cut' to a BSOD, but then it reboots immediately before I can read it. At the same time, safe mode gets me nothing but endless/incomprehensible lines, so it looks like the only thing that works is setup (F10) and HP QuickPlay.

Also, before I shut down, I noticed things like some file corruption error messages which I was planning to respond to, but the battery was almost out.

Any idea what the heck could/is up? Heat wasn't felt, btw.

Problem with simply starting clean is, I have a "recovery partition" from which discs were to be made, rather than physical discs.

[Beowulf]

You = hosed.

[Edward Yee]

Arrgh... no calling HP or anyone about this? As I'm wondering whether anyone else has had this problem, for one. (For example, HP support has a set of questions relating to blue screen, but it won't stay around long enough for me to see what the error message is.)

And am I hosed on Windows alone? *Wonders if an OS ISO + the original product code would be okay with the big MS* As long as I can get my files back, I suppose I can lose the files. (I have a Vista Home Premium disc, fortunately.)

EDIT: I found that for $14.95+tax, HP can send a recovery disc for Windows XP MCE and has drivers on-site. I just hope that file recovery won't be an issue...

[Edi]

Is the machine stuck in an eternal boot loop? IF it is, you're generally fucked and must resort to the magical incantation of format c: to solve your problems.

Also, what antivirus software are you using? That might be important.

[Edi]

EDIT: I found that for $14.95+tax, HP can send a recovery disc for Windows XP MCE and has drivers on-site. I just hope that file recovery won't be an issue...

Using the recovery CD will reset the computer to factory defaults. MEaning it will wipe your files. You need a Linux Live CD disk to boot it up, then copy your stuff to a USB drive or external HD and then wipe the comp or use the recovery disk. OR have some friend working at a comp shop who can take the HD out, hook it up to something and vacuum your files out of there.

You're looking at a complete reinstall of the machine no matter what else you do.

[Edward Yee]

Eternal boot loop... if it won't let me see what the BSOD message is, and then try to troubleshoot from there, then I guess so.

For antivirus... was AVG Free. Bleh. Hadn't gotten any hits in a while.

EDIT: I found that for $14.95+tax, HP can send a recovery disc for Windows XP MCE and has drivers on-site. I just hope that file recovery won't be an issue...

Using the recovery CD will reset the computer to factory defaults. MEaning it will wipe your files. You need a Linux Live CD disk to boot it up, then copy your stuff to a USB drive or external HD and then wipe the comp or use the recovery disk. OR have some friend working at a comp shop who can take the HD out, hook it up to something and vacuum your files out of there.

You're looking at a complete reinstall of the machine no matter what else you do.

Hmm... would the PC Recovery (recovery discs made by me if I had done) have done the same? As for some reason, I'm thinking that that -- and my 120GB having been divvied up into 100 GB/12 GB partitions -- may carry over with a HP-sent recovery.

As for file recovery -- I suppose I could find a USB enclosure for this drive, but I hope that doesn't violate warranty or CompUSA's TAP support plan. And what's Linux Live? (I have an external USB drive, btw.)

[General Zod]

Linux Live is a version of Linux that will let you run the OS straight from the CD without installation. (Such as Knoppix or Mandriva). It's a handy tool for figuring out whether your problem is a hardware one or a pure OS issue, and it will let you get your files off the machine.

[Edi]

Eternal boot loop... if it won't let me see what the BSOD message is, and then try to troubleshoot from there, then I guess so.

Then nothing you can do but reformat.

For antivirus... was AVG Free. Bleh. Hadn't gotten any hits in a while.

Not what I thought it might be then. HP machines running WinXP may have some severe reactions to certain customizations of F-Secure software in some cases.

Hmm... would the PC Recovery (recovery discs made by me if I had done) have done the same? As for some reason, I'm thinking that that -- and my 120GB having been divvied up into 100 GB/12 GB partitions -- may carry over with a HP-sent recovery.

I'm not sure if the partitioning stays, but I would not bet on it. The recovery disks tend to reimage the whole drive.

As for file recovery -- I suppose I could find a USB enclosure for this drive, but I hope that doesn't violate warranty or CompUSA's TAP support plan. And what's Linux Live? (I have an external USB drive, btw.)

A Linux LiveCD is some distribution like Knoppix that you can run from the CD without needing to install. So boot up the machine with that, hook up an external hard drive via USB, vacuum the stuff up and then you can reformat with no worries. Don't need to worry about warranty either, since you've not messed with the hardware.

[Edward Yee]

Not what I thought it might be then. HP machines running WinXP may have some severe reactions to certain customizations of F-Secure software in some cases.

Funny, but any documentation or knowhow about what causes eternal boot loops? (Ran a hard-drive self-diagnostic from setup that reported nada.)

I'm not sure if the partitioning stays, but I would not bet on it. The recovery disks tend to reimage the whole drive.

Fair enough... but I wonder if the recovery discs will include said partitioning in their images?

A Linux LiveCD is some distribution like Knoppix that you can run from the CD without needing to install. So boot up the machine with that, hook up an external hard drive via USB, vacuum the stuff up and then you can reformat with no worries. Don't need to worry about warranty either, since you've not messed with the hardware.

Any links to a LiveCD? (Thank you for your answer as well, Zod.)

But won't I violate warranty if I go with the comp shop option or do it myself, though? (I still need my warranty to cover at least the battery by the end of this year, since storage capacity went down by 45% since manufacture to now.)

I also have a Vista Home Premium disc (the express upgrade 'version'). Should I upgrade from the disc and hopefully avoid a reformat, or order the recovery media from HP anyway?

[General Zod]

Any links to a LiveCD? (Thank you for your answer as well, Zod.)

Mandriva One. You can also google Knoppix and find it easily enough.

I also have a Vista Home Premium disc (the express upgrade 'version'). Should I upgrade from the disc and hopefully avoid a reformat, or order the recovery media from HP anyway?

Wait until you've verified the cause of the problem before wasting a Vista key.

[Sharp-kun]

Tried the repair option on your Windows CD?

[Edward Yee]

Sharp-kun, there isn't a Windows XP MCE disc, which is part of the problem. Instead, the laptop has a partition set aside from which recovery discs could be burned -- 19 CDs, 4 DVDs, or 2 DVD DL's. Unless you mean seeing if a Windows XP disc of another edition could help? (I am also alternately considering the installation of another edition of XP to supersede MCE, but am ready to shell out the money for a recovery disc if forced, I guess.)

Thank you for the link, Zod! *Kneels* Unfortunately, I don't know what you mean by wasting a Vista (express upgrade) key, and I have no idea how to verify the cause of the eternal boot loop thing (nor did I know about it).

[General Zod]

Sharp-kun, there isn't a Windows XP MCE disc, which is part of the problem. Instead, the laptop has a partition set aside from which recovery discs could be burned -- 19 CDs, 4 DVDs, or 2 DVD DL's. Unless you mean seeing if a Windows XP disc of another edition could help? (I am also alternately considering the installation of another edition of XP to supersede MCE, but am ready to shell out the money for a recovery disc if forced, I guess.)

Thank you for the link, Zod! *Kneels* Unfortunately, I don't know what you mean by wasting a Vista (express upgrade) key, and I have no idea how to verify the cause of the eternal boot loop thing (nor did I know about it).

Vista only lets you install one instance of it per key. So if you install the OS on your computer and it turns out the drive or other hardware is fucked up, you have to buy a new key in order to use Vista again. Using a Live Linux distro will help verify whether it's hardware or OS related, as that way if you're still getting error messages, it's not the operating system and you may need replacement parts.

[Vendetta]

If you haven't burned the recovery discs or otherwise deleted that partition, the recovery partition should still be bootable. There'll be a boot time keypress that switches over to it. (F11 is a common one). HP's recovery system, if it's the same in the US range as the EU ones, has a non-destructive recovery mode, where it doesn't format the drive and dumps the old drive contents in an archive folder you can recover them from (it's not perfect, especially if the drive was approaching full, but it's better than nothing).

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Tried the repair option on your Windows CD?

The repair option is a joke. It takes forever to repair, if it even succeeds.

[RThurmont]

The repair option is a joke. It takes forever to repair, if it even succeeds.

Still worth a shot though, I'd propose. I recently had a glitch with one of my Windows installs similiar to this, albeit caused by filesystem corruption. A filesystem set to be mounted at boot got corrupted, and Windows would try to repair it, but fail every time. Amusingly enough, the filesystem in question was _not_ the "C drive". To solve the problem, I reverted to a backup image I had of the HD.

[Howedar]

I recall having this weird flash-BSOD thing a few years back. It actually shows you a long hex string that identifies the error. It dumps this error code somewhere. I don't remember where, but you can dig it up from command line and look at it, then go search for the long hex string error code.

Certainly do not reformat it yet.

[Edward Yee]

Updates:
1. I tried the PC Recovery program that HP does have, which does in fact use non-destructive mode as the default -- but that did not fix the problem.

2. As for LinuxLive, I tried Mandriva One's 32-bit GNOME version, but that one wasn't able to find/use drivers for my wireless hardware, nor was it able to non-destructively install on my Windows partition. (If I recall correctly, an error message claimed 16 clusters were referenced multiple times.) By default running it off the CD resulted in it logging me automatically as a guest, with no access to the C: drive other than the above install attempt; I have yet to try the KDE (?) version or Knoppix.
Q: Would Linspire or Freespire be good alternatives in trying to access my files in the first place?

3. Went to my "local" CompUSA to inquire, where the (fortunately very helpful) employee at the Technical Services counter confirmed file corruption; unfortunately them doing the recovery/backup would be $99.99 on discs or $79.99 if I gave them a hard drive to use. He was negative though about attempting to repair with other versions of XP, and told me to check with HP first due to my specific needs.

As an interesting alternative to ordering a recovery disc ($14.95+tax) or going all the way with Vista, I found this:

3. If you have not already created an OS recovery disc, you will be prompted to create one before doing the upgrade. If necessary, the recovery disc can be used to re-install the original XP operating system.

4. You will be prompted to back up all user data files to external storage media. During the upgrade process, all files on the PC are deleted.

How does this sound?

[Howedar]

It sounds godawfully terrible. Knoppix knoppix knoppix. Alternately, you might want to look into something like BartPE. It's saved my ass a time or two.

[Edward Yee]

What about the linked-to WinPE (unless that has to be bought) or Ultimate Boot CD for Windows? (Based on BartPE.) I now have (all unburned) Knoppix, KDE 32-bit version of Mandriva is 2/3 done, and Freespire is 60%...

Chatting with a HP online tech at the moment...

[Edi]

One way to do things would be if you have a desktop computer in addition to the laptop, then all you need to do is buy an adapter that allows you to hook laptop hard drives into a desktop machine as a secondary drive and copy your stuff from there. It does require a fair bit of knowing what you're doing and it also might void the warranty on the HP, since it requires extracting the HD.

The prices for data backups sound just about normal for computer repair business.

[Edward Yee]

One way to do things would be if you have a desktop computer in addition to the laptop, then all you need to do is buy an adapter that allows you to hook laptop hard drives into a desktop machine as a secondary drive and copy your stuff from there. It does require a fair bit of knowing what you're doing and it also might void the warranty on the HP, since it requires extracting the HD.

The prices for data backups sound just about normal for computer repair business.

Do you mean using a USB 2.5" hard drive enclosure? Or rather, something like this or this?

The good news is, I was told by the tech support chat that the warranty would not be voided. The bad news is, my HDD is a SATA from Fujitsu instead of IDE/ATA.

[ammisan]

If you get your recovery CD, there is a chance you could do a repair install to overwrite the damaged files. Note that I say a chance, because it's sounding like your windows install has gone to the big Microsoft farm in the sky and only a full clean wipe and re-install (READ: all your information goes bye-bye) will fix that.

=( sorry to hear of this. Computer troubles suck.

[Edward Yee]

If you get your recovery CD, there is a chance you could do a repair install to overwrite the damaged files. Note that I say a chance, because it's sounding like your windows install has gone to the big Microsoft farm in the sky and only a full clean wipe and re-install (READ: all your information goes bye-bye) will fix that.

=( sorry to hear of this. Computer troubles suck.

That'd be the case if I had a OEM operating system disc. However, the recovery disc (I was told it would be one DVD from HP if I order) would not do a repair install, but rather the hard drive is returned to factory settings.

Tried a non-disc (running recovery from the partition) attempt to do "repair" without destroying my personal files, but that didn't help, so I'm now looking at any form of getting the files off the hard drive (onto a safe drive) I can... and hoping that they're not irretrievable even then.

[Edi]

One way to do things would be if you have a desktop computer in addition to the laptop, then all you need to do is buy an adapter that allows you to hook laptop hard drives into a desktop machine as a secondary drive and copy your stuff from there. It does require a fair bit of knowing what you're doing and it also might void the warranty on the HP, since it requires extracting the HD.

The prices for data backups sound just about normal for computer repair business.

Do you mean using a USB 2.5" hard drive enclosure? Or rather, something like this or this?

The good news is, I was told by the tech support chat that the warranty would not be voided. The bad news is, my HDD is a SATA from Fujitsu instead of IDE/ATA.

Yeah, that kind of adapters. I suppose they have adapters for SATA stuff too. You don't even need to actually mount the HD in a bay, just hook it up. Then copy your stuff and after that you can cheerfully wipe the HD and reinstall the machine from scracth.