Robotech live action movie

[Stark]

I'm trying to imagine a post-Transformers 'eight million fragments' VF-1 or SDF. It's not very awesome.

[Nephtys]

You know, the movie doesn't have to tell the whole story. Going up to the Battle of Saturn's Rings or the Battle of Sara Base would be plenty to fill a movie, tell a relatively complete story, and leave room for a sequel (arguably the weakest point on the plan ).

Pfft. That'd make too much sense. Non-initiated viewers will have to ask 'Why is that spaceship a giant robot? Is that an F-14? Why is it flying through space? What's with the Giants in the Pickle Fleet that's following them? Did that girl just kick their asses with a pop song?

Etc. You can't start midway through. Without at least making massive changes to the plot (which is probably for the best, tbh.)

[Knife]

You know, the movie doesn't have to tell the whole story. Going up to the Battle of Saturn's Rings or the Battle of Sara Base would be plenty to fill a movie, tell a relatively complete story, and leave room for a sequel (arguably the weakest point on the plan ).

Pfft. That'd make too much sense. Non-initiated viewers will have to ask 'Why is that spaceship a giant robot? Is that an F-14? Why is it flying through space? What's with the Giants in the Pickle Fleet that's following them? Did that girl just kick their asses with a pop song?

Etc. You can't start midway through. Without at least making massive changes to the plot (which is probably for the best, tbh.)

Uhm, I think he meant; start from the begining and end the two hour movie at Saturn or Mars with the rest being a sequel.

[Nephtys]

You know, the movie doesn't have to tell the whole story. Going up to the Battle of Saturn's Rings or the Battle of Sara Base would be plenty to fill a movie, tell a relatively complete story, and leave room for a sequel (arguably the weakest point on the plan ).

Pfft. That'd make too much sense. Non-initiated viewers will have to ask 'Why is that spaceship a giant robot? Is that an F-14? Why is it flying through space? What's with the Giants in the Pickle Fleet that's following them? Did that girl just kick their asses with a pop song?

Etc. You can't start midway through. Without at least making massive changes to the plot (which is probably for the best, tbh.)

Uhm, I think he meant; start from the begining and end the two hour movie at Saturn or Mars with the rest being a sequel.

I probably should clarify. I meant there's a lot of background material that needs to be explained for it to make sense. Else they change things in the name of accessability and you get uh.. The 'Wing Commander Movie' (shudders, curls up to cry at the memory).

[Knife]

I probably should clarify. I meant there's a lot of background material that needs to be explained for it to make sense. Else they change things in the name of accessability and you get uh.. The 'Wing Commander Movie' (shudders, curls up to cry at the memory).

I don't see why. Granted it's been a while so maybe I'm missing something, but a quick blurb kind of like the books about Zor and sending the SDF to earth right before an Invid attack would probably do the trick, coupled with the landing of the SDF 1 on Macross island and what happened inside with Global and crew....

Then the scenes of Folker talking to Rick about the construction of the Veritechs and the reason behind them on launch day should cover the basics pretty damn well before the *pew pew pew* starts.

[GuppyShark]

I still find it hard to believe that Sunrise and Studio Nue would let their designs be used.

They let them be used for Robotech - toys and a TV series. And be festooned across lunchboxes, etc. Why would a tabletop wargame be hard to believe? Merchandising is just another revenue stream.

But go ahead and post some proof. Nobody else does.

Please post some proof that FASA commited theft. Burden of proof is on you with such an accusation.

It was settled out of court. That fact has never been disputed. FASA were of the opinion that it would bankrupt them to try the case, and that's frankly not hard to believe given they were a niche market wargaming company.

"If they were right, they'd have gone anyway and sued for damages!"

A multi-language license versus an animation studio/merchanidising property... yeah, I'd think twice before risking my tabletop wargaming company on that. One vague word and you could be toast.

[Uraniun235]

I'm trying to imagine a post-Transformers 'eight million fragments' VF-1 or SDF. It's not very awesome.

You know they're going to try and make it "modern" by using something like the F-22 as the basis for the transformer plane, and you know it's going to suck.

[VF5SS]

I'm trying to imagine a post-Transformers 'eight million fragments' VF-1 or SDF. It's not very awesome.

Clearly this is going to be a movie where the every hinges upon finding the all powerful PROTOCULTURE and then using it to destroy the big bad with some lip service at the end to set up for a sequel.

[VF5SS]

I believe this is the court case for Harmony Gold vs. FASA.

I guess it is a licensing snaffu. However, if FASA had models and artwork (most likely the boxart since 99% of early Battletech art is just retouched boxart from the models) I don't think that grants them the right to include lineart (as seen in several books), which is a separate piece. Even now, Big West owns the DESIGNS in Macross, while Tatsunoko owns the animation itself as they footed the bill for the show when it hit hard times.

[Sidewinder]

Telling the entire story in a two hour; or even 2 1/2 hour format would indeed be next to impossible. The best bet would either be an all new story designed to fit into a movie's run time; or a series of movies about each of the generations. Which is more likely though?

An all new story. Doing the multigenerational part of 'Robotech' would be too much of a pain in the ass.

[CycloneRider052]

I believe this is the court case for Harmony Gold vs. FASA.

I guess it is a licensing snaffu. However, if FASA had models and artwork (most likely the boxart since 99% of early Battletech art is just retouched boxart from the models) I don't think that grants them the right to include lineart (as seen in several books), which is a separate piece. Even now, Big West owns the DESIGNS in Macross, while Tatsunoko owns the animation itself as they footed the bill for the show when it hit hard times.

Aha. There it is.

I think part of Harmony Gold's issue is that they're not sure yet if they're still allowed to use the Macross designs in any animation. Apperantly stuff like comics and games are ok; but animation is up in the air. It was also brought up during the podcast that HG isn't sure if that extends to the live-action movie, if that is indeed the case; you can expect the mecha and whatnot to be redesigned.

[Nephtys]

I'm trying to imagine a post-Transformers 'eight million fragments' VF-1 or SDF. It's not very awesome.

You know they're going to try and make it "modern" by using something like the F-22 as the basis for the transformer plane, and you know it's going to suck.

You mean like Macross 7? Where we have F117s that turn into stealth robots? Or modern flat-top style carriers with angled decks that turn into robots? Or the modern YF-23 knockoff that was the.. uh. YF-21 Sturmvogel?

[CycloneRider052]

I'm trying to imagine a post-Transformers 'eight million fragments' VF-1 or SDF. It's not very awesome.

You know they're going to try and make it "modern" by using something like the F-22 as the basis for the transformer plane, and you know it's going to suck.

Or because licensing would force them to. All in all, it's still too early to tell. As much as I like the VF-1 design, it would be nice for the movie to go with all new designs as part of an attempt to move Robotech away from its rather messy origins and onto something that can stand on its own merits and not have all those pesky troubles that combining the 3 seperate shows caused.

[CycloneRider052]

I'm trying to imagine a post-Transformers 'eight million fragments' VF-1 or SDF. It's not very awesome.

Clearly this is going to be a movie where the every hinges upon finding the all powerful PROTOCULTURE and then using it to destroy the big bad with some lip service at the end to set up for a sequel.

How is that any different from the all powerful sound energy, anima spiritia or whatever the fuck they're calling it now magically destroys the space vampires before they drain the universe of all its juju?

[VF5SS]

How is that any different from the all powerful sound energy, anima spiritia or whatever the fuck they're calling it now magically destroys the space vampires before they drain the universe of all its juju?

I was making fun of the Transformers movie.

[Nephtys]

I'm trying to imagine a post-Transformers 'eight million fragments' VF-1 or SDF. It's not very awesome.

Clearly this is going to be a movie where the every hinges upon finding the all powerful PROTOCULTURE and then using it to destroy the big bad with some lip service at the end to set up for a sequel.

How is that any different from the all powerful sound energy, anima spiritia or whatever the fuck they're calling it now magically destroys the space vampires before they drain the universe of all its juju?

Because that magic music demon vampire dimension crap is something tacked on in a sequel series. No hint of it at all in the original material, or Macross Plus, the only sequel so far worth a damn.

Meanwhile, Protoculture as a plant/powersource is involved as a core element of all 3 Robotech subshows.

[Uraniun235]

I'm trying to imagine a post-Transformers 'eight million fragments' VF-1 or SDF. It's not very awesome.

You know they're going to try and make it "modern" by using something like the F-22 as the basis for the transformer plane, and you know it's going to suck.

You mean like Macross 7? Where we have F117s that turn into stealth robots? Or modern flat-top style carriers with angled decks that turn into robots? Or the modern YF-23 knockoff that was the.. uh. YF-21 Sturmvogel?

Alls I know is that the only Macross material I've been able to really get into (and finish) was SDF Macross and DYRL. M7 went way too far with the "teen/pop music" bullshit, Plus was slow and didn't do much for me, and the few minutes of Zero that one of my friends showed me instantly turned me off.

[Durandal]

If they take the same direction with a Robotech movie that they took with the new Battlestar Galactica (that is, eliminate the campy shit, take the overall plot and make a grittier, militaristic version), then it could be very good. Granted, not every character has to be an alcoholic, but a movie could do without the "In order to defeat our enemies, we must broadcast pop music" shit.

Considering how damn important the Rick/Lisa/Minmei or Hikaru/Misa/Minmay love triangle is in 'Robotech' and 'Macross', it's doubtful they can cut out the "Lynn Minmay saves the world!" bit. (I prefer a victory by force of arms, but I'd also like SOME faithfulness to the original works.)

Why does Minmei need to save the universe to preserve that love triangle?

Here's the rub; with Battlestar Galactica, even after all the changes, at its core was still the basic premise of "the last surviving fragments of humanity are running away, trying to stay alive, and praying they manage to run into Earth some day".

That's not campiness. That's a post-apocalyptic plot in space.

The premise of Macross seems like it is itself basically campy... so if we take that away, what exactly is Macross going to be about besides transforming F-14s and teenaged lovers?

How so? An alien space shit crashes on Earth, humans use it to travel to achieve space travel. The previous owners come back to Earth find it and decide to try and take it back by force; war ensues. You can argue about plausibility or coherence, but that's not what I'd consider campy.

Campiness is when you exaggerate things, usually for humor, but sometimes, humor is just a side-effect. The Robotech narrator, for example, was campy. He was there to try and increase excitement, but he was campy because it was overdone.

[Uraniun235]

That's not campiness. That's a post-apocalyptic plot in space.

I didn't say that it was. That's my point; the essence of Battlestar Galactica remained even after all of the campy material was stripped away. I'm not convinced the same would be true of Macross; the campy elements of the show are where a lot of the fun comes from. I'm skeptical that it would work nearly as well for it as it did for neoBSG, especially considering that you're trying to inflict grittyness on a show with starships and space-F-14s that transform into giant humanoid robots.

God damnit, space opera is supposed to be fun. What the hell is with you people and insisting that it be serious business?

[Ford Prefect]

Alls I know is that the only Macross material I've been able to really get into (and finish) was SDF Macross and DYRL. M7 went way too far with the "teen/pop music" bullshit, Plus was slow and didn't do much for me, and the few minutes of Zero that one of my friends showed me instantly turned me off.

For god's sake man go and watch Macross Plus. It is happens to be quite awesome.

[Darwin]

For god's sake man go and watch Macross Plus. It is happens to be quite awesome.

Yes, but..

Miniseries version or movie version?

[Ford Prefect]

For god's sake man go and watch Macross Plus. It is happens to be quite awesome.

Yes, but..

Miniseries version or movie version?

I only know one major difference between the movie and the OVA, which is Guld's dogfight against the Ghost, which is more awesome in the movie. However, I've only seen the OVA, which was good enough in itself (the OVA is all I appear to be able to get here, anyway).

[CycloneRider052]

Clearly this is going to be a movie where the every hinges upon finding the all powerful PROTOCULTURE and then using it to destroy the big bad with some lip service at the end to set up for a sequel.

How is that any different from the all powerful sound energy, anima spiritia or whatever the fuck they're calling it now magically destroys the space vampires before they drain the universe of all its juju?

Because that magic music demon vampire dimension crap is something tacked on in a sequel series. No hint of it at all in the original material, or Macross Plus, the only sequel so far worth a damn.

Meanwhile, Protoculture as a plant/powersource is involved as a core element of all 3 Robotech subshows.

No doubt. Macross Plus is the only decent thing to come out of the franchise since DYRL.

That's a problem because? Yes the way protoculture works is not ever really fully explained in the series itself, but for the most part it is internally consistent. Its simply the one resource that everyone wants but only comes from one place. Sounds a bit like the Spice Melange to me. Currently the only powers attributed to protoculture are an extremely efficient form of fusion and as a catalyst for genetic manipulation. While parts of the article are out of date it does give the best explanation of protoculture to date. The article in question IS referenced during one of the chapter openers in "Before the Invid Storm" so I would imagine that according to Harmony Gold's own rules of canon; that would make this particular item a secondary source since it does appear in an official work.

[CycloneRider052]

Protoculture is the energy derived from the heat given off from the seeds of the Flower of Life, when prevented by pressure from reproducing. The energy is produced by a process of cold fusion, when a lithium- and deuterium rich solution permeates the seeds and their environs. A protein chain within the seeds squeezes the lithium-6 and deuterium atoms into close proximity. Bosons, the resultant compressed atoms, are not affected by the effective repulsion of the Pauli principle. Only electrostatic barriers to fusion need to be overcome. This solution, which also includes several seed based nutrients, is known as the Protoculture Matrix....Maintained in bio-stasis, the seeds gradually surrender their stores of energy; the richer the lithium-deuterium solution, the quicker the depletion. For sustained energy, a moderate solution and moderate pressure are needed. However, as the solution begins to accrue carbon as a result of the fusion, the seeds recieve nutrition sufficient to germinate. Thus the Flowers of Life end up consuming the matrix. And without the Invid or the pollinators to help fertilize the new growths that sprout in the containment vessels, the plants are effectively useless for the generation of energy.

-Peter Walker, The Truth Behind Protoculture

This is the original excerpt from the novel; the article linked above was finished several years later. The excerpt itself is taken from one of Walker's postings in alt.tv.robotech in about 1996.

[SAMAS]

Like hell! Robotech was one of the shows that introduced me to anime, and I'd rather take it, warts and all, than not know Macross at all.

Robotech was the show that got me into anime when I was younger. It was the first anime I ever saw. It doesn't matter that it started the anime boom in the west - it's still terrible, and a terrible example of 'translation'. Taking three different series and trying to make them one, inserting ridiculous plot elements and so on is a poor thing to do. 'Then don't do it' is a perfectly reasonable thing to say when considering it.

And I disagree. Especially if I was the one who paid the money and went through the trouble to get the rights to distribute it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to just sit on it just to please some purist fucks ten years down the line.

I didn't say Robotech wasn't flawed. I just said that I didn't give a damn about them.