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Post by InnocentBystander »

Molyneux wrote:
Hotfoot wrote:
Didn't you hear about what happened with Bioshock? Several thousand people couldn't start playing their game - you know, the one they had spent money to buy, money that they'd worked for - because the online authentication server went down. And that's not even counting the bullshit with the limited activations.
...you really are an idiot. First off, ValveSteam doesn't do limited activations. Secondly, while Steam did initially stumble, all of the glitches have since been worked out on a large scale. They've done this before.
Yes, and that 'initial stumble' kept people from playing the game they'd paid for. You don't see a problem with that?
I don't get it, do you feel like they owe you something for screwing up in the past? Should they abandon their business model because three years ago they fucked you out of a couple hours while you tried to activate half-life 2 or something?

I can understand that some people are miffed about whats happened, but its not like the system doesn't work or something.
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Post by weemadando »

My Steam broke a few days ago. Valve says that its a virus on my system causing the fault, but multiple scans showing clear and a new Steam install are still generating the same damn floating point error. FUCK!
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Post by weemadando »

And I just tried it again. THe latest update has revived it. Hurrah!
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Post by Ace Pace »

Flagg wrote:
What's pissing me off is that they are essentially making HL3 using the HL2 engine and making us pay more for it.
Uh...NO.
The HL2 engine, over time, has been significently enhanced, anyone playing HL2EP1 would have noticed this, and Episode 2 has some very neat features which did not exist in HL2.

The pricing annoys me, but i'm a sucker and i'll buy it up.
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Post by Flagg »

Ace Pace wrote:
Flagg wrote:
What's pissing me off is that they are essentially making HL3 using the HL2 engine and making us pay more for it.
Uh...NO.
The HL2 engine, over time, has been significently enhanced, anyone playing HL2EP1 would have noticed this, and Episode 2 has some very neat features which did not exist in HL2.

The pricing annoys me, but i'm a sucker and i'll buy it up.
It's still the HL2 engine, moron. You can dress up a pig all you want, but at the end of the day it's still Britney Spears.
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Post by TheMuffinKing »

So whats the problem with the HL2 engine? The developers themselves have said the engine hasn't been fully exploited yet. Great looking and functioning games can still be made, look at the history of the Quake2 and Unreal series of engines.

I think you are being a stupid cunt about this Flagg. Should I call your doctor and schedule an emergency anal stick removal?
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Post by Stark »

That's all that would matter: if HL2+knobs can compare to UE3.0 or Crysis or whatever.
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Post by Flagg »

TheMuffinKing wrote:So whats the problem with the HL2 engine? The developers themselves have said the engine hasn't been fully exploited yet. Great looking and functioning games can still be made, look at the history of the Quake2 and Unreal series of engines.

I think you are being a stupid cunt about this Flagg. Should I call your doctor and schedule an emergency anal stick removal?
Hey dipshit, if Quake 3 used the Quake 2 engine, don't you think people would have bitched? Moreover, if Quake 3 used the Q2 engine and was released in 3 parts over the span of 2+ years and you ended up having to pay $90+ for it, don't you think most people would have been even more pissed off?

That's right. Now, feel free to go fuck your sister or whatever the hell it is that inbred fucktards like you do for fun.
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Post by Ace Pace »

Stark wrote:That's all that would matter: if HL2+knobs can compare to UE3.0 or Crysis or whatever.
From what we've seen of TF2, Portal and EP2, I can say a yes.

Sure, it doesn't have the latest whizzbang, like accurate foilage, but honestly, the artists are still turning out amazing stuff on that and thats all that matters.
The UE2.5 engine had a very long life cycle because the artists using it knew how to extract every last bit of preformance from it and create some pretty stunning stuff. Same with the Source engine.

And Flagg, so you bitched when every Call of Duty game used the same engine? What about Medal of Honour? I mean they released basically expansions over a span of multiple years, paying 50 bucks for each...with no improvement.
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Post by Flagg »

Ace Pace wrote: And Flagg, so you bitched when every Call of Duty game used the same engine? What about Medal of Honour? I mean they released basically expansions over a span of multiple years, paying 50 bucks for each...with no improvement.
Except you got full games then, didn't you? Not that I actually purchased Call of Duty 2, or the Medal of Honor sequels. You know, because they were pretty much the exact same graphics engine with the exact same gameplay.

And that's not to say I have an issue with HL2 or it's engine. Valve makes good games, when they bother to release them. I just take issue with the fact that their "episodic sequel" is taking forever and is costing me more than if they had just made HL3.
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Post by Covenant »

After seeing Bioshock, I'm really wishing people squeezed more life out of late-era engines than just jumping to the next one. Bioshock's lack of support for Shader Model 2 is really just unacceptable, and I downloaded the mod to let me play it on a 2.0 card, and sadly, the game runs really well. And I say sadly because the only thing keeping me from full enjoyment of the game is their insistance on using a new engine, and also not using that engine to it's full extent by making it compatible with a later-era card.

Regardless, playing the game in a diminished graphical quality also started showing holes in the appearence, and these are things I never felt about Halflife 2. I think that even an outdated game engine, if it is used properly, can deliver an excellent game experience. At a nice sexy framerate, Halflife 2 looks great and plays smoothly, and the starkness of the environments can be dressed up quite adequately by someone who chooses to do so.

Foliage, light glow, fuzzy soft shadows and all that other nonsense is lovely but irrelevent in the heat of combat, and I think a gussied up Halflife 2 engine could deliver a wonderful game even today, especially if you weren't banking so heavily just on visuals. I prefer a highly nimble game engine that doesn't get choppy or clip objects to one that churns out great screenshots but mixed effects. After watching the spasmatic ragdoll physics of "THE BEST GAME EVER," Bioshock, I had a greater appreciation for some of the subtlety in the source engine that made it such an evenly enjoyable experience.

Metroid Prime 3 is a good example. The game's visuals are hailed as fantastic for a shooter (on a console), but honestly they're nothing the gamecube version didn't have. Halflife 3 could do better than Prime 3, easy, even on the HL2 engine. I think a slick framerate on top of solid visuals is going to lead towards a better game experience. Otherwise people will get choppy gameplay or need to tone down the graphics to play it properly... which just botches the goal. So Prime 3's decision to do last-gen visuals but get 60 fps seems to be a smart one... even if, honestly, they could have ripped off Prime's graphics a little less blatantly.

Crysis is obviously sex-in-pictures in terms of the beauty of what we see, but I honestly can say that while good, immersive graphics give me a lovely sense of immersion, capable and slightly older graphics still have plenty of capacity to get me involved, especially if they're using the slimmer engine to do more at once. Bioshock, lighting and such aside, just didn't seem to show off it's U3 engine in a very positive light.
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Post by Ace Pace »

I'm thinking that we really need Epic to release UT3 for the UE3 engine to really have a chance to shine. Gears of War was a very good technical show off, but it was limited in what it could display. UT3 has no such limitations.
And I say sadly because the only thing keeping me from full enjoyment of the game is their insistance on using a new engine, and also not using that engine to it's full extent by making it compatible with a later-era card.
You'll be happy to note that an old SM2 card is perfectly fine for UT3, and hell, I recall the minimum specifications being a 9800Pro. And minimum in the UT games is actually playable from my experiance.
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Post by TheMuffinKing »

Flagg wrote:
TheMuffinKing wrote:So whats the problem with the HL2 engine? The developers themselves have said the engine hasn't been fully exploited yet. Great looking and functioning games can still be made, look at the history of the Quake2 and Unreal series of engines.

I think you are being a stupid cunt about this Flagg. Should I call your doctor and schedule an emergency anal stick removal?
Hey dipshit, if Quake 3 used the Quake 2 engine, don't you think people would have bitched? Moreover, if Quake 3 used the Q2 engine and was released in 3 parts over the span of 2+ years and you ended up having to pay $90+ for it, don't you think most people would have been even more pissed off?

That's right. Now, feel free to go fuck your sister or whatever the hell it is that inbred fucktards like you do for fun.
HAHAHA! Quake 3 WAS little more than the quake 2 engine. How are you going to end up paying over $90? You know what never mind my point still stand you are a douchce.
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Post by Flagg »

TheMuffinKing wrote:
Flagg wrote:
TheMuffinKing wrote:So whats the problem with the HL2 engine? The developers themselves have said the engine hasn't been fully exploited yet. Great looking and functioning games can still be made, look at the history of the Quake2 and Unreal series of engines.

I think you are being a stupid cunt about this Flagg. Should I call your doctor and schedule an emergency anal stick removal?
Hey dipshit, if Quake 3 used the Quake 2 engine, don't you think people would have bitched? Moreover, if Quake 3 used the Q2 engine and was released in 3 parts over the span of 2+ years and you ended up having to pay $90+ for it, don't you think most people would have been even more pissed off?

That's right. Now, feel free to go fuck your sister or whatever the hell it is that inbred fucktards like you do for fun.
HAHAHA! Quake 3 WAS little more than the quake 2 engine. How are you going to end up paying over $90? You know what never mind my point still stand you are a douchce.
Evidence that the Q3 engine was little more than the Q2 engine?

Episode 1: $19.99

Episode 2: $44.99

And we can assume Episode 3 will be $19.99. So it's $80+ before taxes, $90+ after.

And try not to type while boning your sister.
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Post by Lonestar »

Hotfoot wrote:Yes, they are selling the Orange Box in stores. You'll still have to do the usual online registration bit, of course.

That pissed me the Hell off, and turned me off of Valve forever. It kinda sucks when you live on a Navy ship and internet for your laptop isn't easy to get to. After that, I swore never to by Valve again.

HL2 wasn't even that good. :(
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Post by Ace Pace »

Flagg wrote:
Evidence that the Q3 engine was little more than the Q2 engine?
It definetly was far more then Q2. Most of the subsystems of the Q2 engine recieved substantial rewrites, noteable among those subsystems is the AI system(written by a modder hired by iD) and the graphics system. Much of the engine was redesigned to be easy to modify by licensees and modders, which up to then, wern't a large focus at iD.
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Post by Hotfoot »

Flagg wrote:What pissed me off about requiring a net connection was when I first moved up here and had to wait 2 weeks to get internet hooked up. I had gotten Episode 1 shortly before moving up here and was planning on playing it once I got moved in. I understand Valve wants to protect their games, but there has got to be some middle ground for situations like that.
Oh noes! You had to wait a little while to play the game because you were in a rare situation. Boo-fucking-hoo. It still comes down to you getting pissy that you didn't bother reading the requirements and getting mad as a result. Why should I feel bad for you at all? This is like you telling me that you bought a game that required a new sound card and you couldn't play for a week while the one you bought online was shipped to you.
Molyneux wrote:Yes, and that 'initial stumble' kept people from playing the game they'd paid for. You don't see a problem with that?
For all of what, maybe a week? Big fucking deal. MMOs have ALL kinds of problems with server load in the first month of operation. That you had to wait a few days to play your game a few years ago is so inconsequential as to not fucking matter as far as I'm concerned. I mean seriously, are you so fucking wrapped up in the "gotta have it now" meme that waiting a few days is going to fucking kill you? Are you so worthless that you can't survive if you don't have it right fucking now? Moreover, because this problem happened in the past, back when the business was starting, they should be held accountable for it now, when they've had several game releases since with no such issues?

Wow, you're a fucking genius, kid.
Well, let's see. Your initial post doesn't offer a link or reference of any kind...and a quick visit to the official Valve website only mentions Portal as being part of the Orange Box. A quick Google search turns up the Wikipedia entry, which only mentions Portal as being offered as part of the Orange Box...and a few rumors.

Yeah, I'm a real idiot for not taking an unsourced post at face value. Jackass.
Hey dipshit, didn't you read this part of my post?
Hotfoot wrote:Meanwhile, if you want to buy Episode 2, Portal, and TF2 seperately, it will cost you $70. Yeah, that's right, Portal and TF2 are no longer packaged with Episode 2, and to top it off, Episode 2 is $10 more than Episode 1!
Shove the "I don't believe you because it's unsubstantiated" bullshit while you're at it. It's fucking obvious from your post that you just didn't bother to read the OP. I mean, fucking hell, "And are they offering Portal solo? That might be worth buying, the freeware game it's based on was fun." at no point says anything remotely like "Hay guyz iz Hotfoot rite about Portal bein sprte?" So spare me your self-righteous bullshit and just admit you didn't bother reading what I wrote.
Lonestar wrote:That pissed me the Hell off, and turned me off of Valve forever. It kinda sucks when you live on a Navy ship and internet for your laptop isn't easy to get to. After that, I swore never to by Valve again.

HL2 wasn't even that good.
This is the first legitimate complaint in regards to the online activation system, but even so, you have to admit you're in a very special case here. The vast majority of computer gamers, once they got their inexpensive broadband, are virtually never offline, save in instances of blackouts or moving. Since such events are temporary and often involve the disruption of other services, well, you get the idea.
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Post by Flagg »

Hotfoot wrote:
Flagg wrote:What pissed me off about requiring a net connection was when I first moved up here and had to wait 2 weeks to get internet hooked up. I had gotten Episode 1 shortly before moving up here and was planning on playing it once I got moved in. I understand Valve wants to protect their games, but there has got to be some middle ground for situations like that.
Oh noes! You had to wait a little while to play the game because you were in a rare situation. Boo-fucking-hoo. It still comes down to you getting pissy that you didn't bother reading the requirements and getting mad as a result. Why should I feel bad for you at all? This is like you telling me that you bought a game that required a new sound card and you couldn't play for a week while the one you bought online was shipped to you.
I did know the requirements and was not expecting not to have internet for 2 weeks. What fucking pissed me off was that despite the fact that I legally purchased the game and had the fucking box sitting in front of me, I still couldn't play my game. This would have been fine for a game like WoW, where internet access is required for a very good reason, namely that the gameplay takes place in an online environment. The same cannot be said for HL2.

And I don't give a flying fuck if you feel bad for me or not. I didn't feel bad for me, I was pissed off at Valve for valueing security over their customers.
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Post by DPDarkPrimus »

Flagg wrote:
TheMuffinKing wrote:
Flagg wrote: Hey dipshit, if Quake 3 used the Quake 2 engine, don't you think people would have bitched? Moreover, if Quake 3 used the Q2 engine and was released in 3 parts over the span of 2+ years and you ended up having to pay $90+ for it, don't you think most people would have been even more pissed off?

That's right. Now, feel free to go fuck your sister or whatever the hell it is that inbred fucktards like you do for fun.
HAHAHA! Quake 3 WAS little more than the quake 2 engine. How are you going to end up paying over $90? You know what never mind my point still stand you are a douchce.
Evidence that the Q3 engine was little more than the Q2 engine?

Episode 1: $19.99

Episode 2: $44.99

And we can assume Episode 3 will be $19.99. So it's $80+ before taxes, $90+ after.

And try not to type while boning your sister.
This pissing contest between you two is irrelevant, because Half-Life 2 and its Episodes use the Source engine.

Go have angry sex somewhere else.
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Post by Flagg »

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
Flagg wrote:
TheMuffinKing wrote: HAHAHA! Quake 3 WAS little more than the quake 2 engine. How are you going to end up paying over $90? You know what never mind my point still stand you are a douchce.
Evidence that the Q3 engine was little more than the Q2 engine?

Episode 1: $19.99

Episode 2: $44.99

And we can assume Episode 3 will be $19.99. So it's $80+ before taxes, $90+ after.

And try not to type while boning your sister.
This pissing contest between you two is irrelevant, because Half-Life 2 and its Episodes use the Source engine.

Go have angry sex somewhere else.
Oh well, I apologize for not remembering that HL2 uses the Source engine at 2 in the morning. Anything else, or are you going to take your pedantic bullshit and fuck right the hell off?
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Post by Hotfoot »

Flagg wrote:I did know the requirements and was not expecting not to have internet for 2 weeks. What fucking pissed me off was that despite the fact that I legally purchased the game and had the fucking box sitting in front of me, I still couldn't play my game. This would have been fine for a game like WoW, where internet access is required for a very good reason, namely that the gameplay takes place in an online environment. The same cannot be said for HL2.

And I don't give a flying fuck if you feel bad for me or not. I didn't feel bad for me, I was pissed off at Valve for valueing security over their customers.
Translation: Wah, wah. Given the business model Valve has moved to, which largely involves digital distribution, the online registration makes sense. That it mildly inconvenienced you because you were too stupid to read the requirements on the box before you bought the game is hardly a concern of mine, nor should it be one of Valve. So you moved, big fucking deal. You had to wait a little longer to play. This isn't some big fucking crime like you keep wailing it is, you're just mad because instead of making you keep your CD in the tray and load up Starforce, they went with a one-time online registration with a personal level of freedom previously unheard of in regards to installations, backups, and new systems. Shit, do you not even understand that if your entire house burns to the fucking ground, gets washed away in a storm, or is nuked from orbit, all you have to do is get a new system and blammo, all your games are right there? Don't want to wait for the downloads? Well if you were smart and made backups, a feature built into Steam, you could just load them from that.

But hey, I guess a ten second online activation is too much to ask for that. You're right. I don't want to easily install the same game on two, three, or even four different systems. That's something that hurts me, the customer.

We live in the age of cheap internet. Even in America where fiber is late in coming, you can get online for a pittance each month. Chances are if you can afford a system capable of running HL2, you can afford net access. Most people who CAN afford net access do, in fact, get it. You gnashing and wailing over spending ten seconds online to register a game is ridiculous. The fact that you were in a period without net access is regrettable, but it's YOUR fault for not reading the requirements on the box, not Valve's for putting in the registration system. You assumed that you could play the game without any access to the net at all. You were wrong. You don't want to take responsibility for your mistake, so you're going to blame the company. Boo-fucking-hoo. If this were any other problem, you not having the right graphics card, processor, memory, or audio card, would you make the same argument? I mean, all that other stuff is listen on the requirements too, so if you can ignore one thing, why not ignore all? Why don't we blast Valve for not supporting 386s? Come on guys, it's horrible!

Yes, yes, I know, this is about an authentication process, not the game itself. Still, as far as protection methods go, this is pretty tame. No rootkits installed, no tracking of websites, no disabling of certain programs it doesn't like, no usurping any part of windows, etc. Ten seconds and it's done, that's it. Moreover, it gives you, the customer, the freedoms and rights you SHOULD have with regards to digital purchases, something which most companies do not give you. Hell, it even gives you extra protections and benefits! Sure, it had a hiccup in the first few days of release, big fucking deal. Sure, if you were moving and didn't have net yet, you missed out on a few days. Here's a bottom line question for you: Did this system make it impossible for you to play the game? This is not "Yeah, for a few days", yes or no. Did you get to play the game or did you not?
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Post by MKSheppard »

Hotfoot wrote:Given the business model Valve has moved to, which largely involves digital distribution, the online registration makes sense.
No it doesn't.

Matrix games works largely on Online distribution, and is in a very niche market, like Wargames. Yet all they need is a simple Serial number at install.

Wow, such frigging difficulty.

Valve requires us to install an anally intensive application which can for whatever reason decide to not let us play our games, called Steam.
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Post by Covenant »

Ace Pace wrote:You'll be happy to note that an old SM2 card is perfectly fine for UT3, and hell, I recall the minimum specifications being a 9800Pro. And minimum in the UT games is actually playable from my experiance.
I know, that's the worst part--the next gen engine is perfectly compatible with SM2, but bioshock just decided not to be. Hell, even Crysis is apparently SM2 compatible, but not the 'shock! Except that it IS, but you need a fan-made mod to do it so. How terribly lame is that?
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Post by Hotfoot »

MKSheppard wrote:No it doesn't.

Matrix games works largely on Online distribution, and is in a very niche market, like Wargames. Yet all they need is a simple Serial number at install.

Wow, such frigging difficulty.
Serial numbers are the most easily broken method of security it's not even funny. Valve's system, as I've noted above, also gives us, the consumer, a lot of freedoms, as well as utility. This is about striking a balance between allowing the company to get paid for producing the product, allowing the consumer to have their fair use rights, and making the game easy to manage. Steam actually does really well on all three marks, and while it does have it's quirks, it's hardly this world-ending program like you seem to make it out to be.
Valve requires us to install an anally intensive application which can for whatever reason decide to not let us play our games, called Steam.
Oh please. So far in this thread you've just wined and image spammed. Next I'm sure you'll give me another anecdotal sob story about some rare special case scenario in which you couldn't play a game for a short period of time because of X, Y, or Z, which most of us don't have to worry about in the first place.

But no, please, do go on about how Steam conspires to prevent you from playing your games. This should be good.
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MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
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Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

Post by MKSheppard »

Hotfoot wrote:Serial numbers are the most easily broken method of security it's not even funny
Hey genious:
TOAW3 Update FAQ wrote:Instituted a new serial number check by Matrix Games. Only valid serial numbers will be able to be patched. Known pirated copies are blacklisted. If you are using a pirated copy, get a life, some morals, and buy your own, legal copy.
Wow, So hard to keep track of the "bad serial numbers". :roll:
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