Well? How is it?

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-01-12 03:46pm

The Teacher wrote:Actually, Trekkie sensos are far more advanced in comparison to Warsie sensors.

Accually Trekkies and Warsies don't have sensors, the Feds and the Empire do.

Ex) A Federation Standard has sensors capable of picking out INDIVIDUAL life forms. Warsie sensors can tell you if life is there.

Proof?

Ex2) Federation sensors were able to locate a positronic signal parscs away, and pinpont them withing 10 meters. Warsie sensors could tell you that SOMEthing was there, and possibly analyze it.

It was bait for a trap, there are several times that they couldn't detect data from much shorter distances. And they could only detect them from within 10 meters once they were in orbit.

But, in my opinion, it is the Warsie EVERYTHING that is superior, if only for my own personal ego.

Been typing long?

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-01-12 03:51pm

Oh, and The Teacher, I hope your not doing drive by debating. PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE come back and try to defend your pathetic arguements.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-01-12 03:56pm

Darth Wong wrote:If MoO wants to address some of Darkstar's bullshit, he can feel free to send me edits, corrections, additions, etc. Personally, I think RSA's complete lack of a social life is why we shouldn't try to engage him with tit-for-tat site updates. Anyone with a brain should be able to see through his bullshit, and the penalty to our social lives is not worth it.

When you're right, you're right. I was ready to tear apart ALL the massive holes in his rebuttal..but then again, why? Hell, its Sunday, and I have better things to do. Frankly, MoO's complete destruction of DipShit's website stands on his own. If any of RSA's supporters would like to come here and attempt to say thatRSA refuted anything then we can deal with them piecemeal that way.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-01-12 03:58pm

Lord Poe wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Lord Poe wrote:
VGR "Dragon's Teeth" TUVOK: "The ships are highly maneuverable; it is difficult to maintain a phaser lock"

Opps hit send to soon.....

IIRC Voyager still managed 60% accuracy.
KS, would you PLEASE save this so I won't have to refute it every goddamned time? My evidence above is from the beginning of the episode. You countered (like every Trekkie that sees this claim) with something that happened toward the end of the epidode. The first claim happens in space. The second (yours) happens on a planet, where we can CLEARLY SEE the ships are NOT maneuvering.

Saved.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-01-12 03:58pm

Durandal wrote:
Kamikazie Sith wrote:However, Darkstars didn't take into consideration that the Imperials were jamming the rebels, that's why they couldn't detect the Imperial Fleet. Not to mention that Endor is much larger in size than Regula.
They were being jammed, genius.

Are you addressing me or Darkstar?

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-01-12 04:00pm

Lord Poe wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:If MoO wants to address some of Darkstar's bullshit, he can feel free to send me edits, corrections, additions, etc. Personally, I think RSA's complete lack of a social life is why we shouldn't try to engage him with tit-for-tat site updates. Anyone with a brain should be able to see through his bullshit, and the penalty to our social lives is not worth it.
When you're right, you're right. I was ready to tear apart ALL the massive holes in his rebuttal..but then again, why? Hell, its Sunday, and I have better things to do. Frankly, MoO's complete destruction of DipShit's website stands on his own. If any of RSA's supporters would like to come here and attempt to say thatRSA refuted anything then we can deal with them piecemeal that way.

Ofcourse thats not how Darkstar will see it. Ofcourse his suppior defense will cause the warsie army to call a full retreat screaming and crying like little girls, and MoO's Webpage rebuttle will be offically consider to be slagged.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-12 04:23pm

I am reminded of Mike's different battle scenarios page, in which he compares realistic scenarios with those of rabid-Trekky fantasies and DS9 writers solutions.

1. DarkStar's fantasy: Master of Ossus, Mike Wong, Wayne Poe, and all of the other rabid Warsies team up to attack Anderson's website. Though they make some initial gains on the usegroups, Anderson does not care in the least bit about other people's opinions. With Wong utterly out of the picture due to the massive bomb dropped on his personal life, Anderson is free to launch massive counter-offensives. The attacks completely and easily route all of the other Warsie points, and they run back to the usegroups crying. As 90% of it is worthless, it is easy to rebut the ten percent that is worth replying to. No permanent damage done; losses minimized, complete victory for Star Trek. Anderson awaits more evidence to use against his detractors, who use their numbers in an effort to distract people from the main points of contention.

2. Likely WingZero (SB.com rabid-Trekkie) scenario: DarkStar is attacked by Master of Ossus and Mike Wong, who post a rebuttal on Mike's site. While it brings up good points, it is WingZero's understanding that it fails to address a few minor areas. Besides that, Robert's website is pretty good--he's read through it once or twice in the past, and that makes Master of Ossus' rebuttal not worth reading. DarkStar wins because Master of Ossus' rebuttal did not destroy Anderson's argument with one or two sentences.

3. Realistic scenario: fed up with people talking about how DarkStar is Star Trek's Mike Wong, Master of Ossus decides to rebut Anderson's website. After reading through it once, he rapidly sees numerous self-contradictions and errors that Anderson made. He writes up a rebuttal and sends it on to Mike Wong, who makes his own additions to further the attack. It utterly smashes nearly all of DarkStar's original points, and DarkStar's counter-offensive falls short when other commentators notice a multitude of errors, logical fallacies, and deceptions in Anderson's counter-attack. Master of Ossus decides not to really try to counter Anderson's claims, as anyone fooled by them is virtually beyond hope, anyway.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-01-12 06:31pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Durandal wrote:
Kamikazie Sith wrote:However, Darkstars didn't take into consideration that the Imperials were jamming the rebels, that's why they couldn't detect the Imperial Fleet. Not to mention that Endor is much larger in size than Regula.
They were being jammed, genius.
Are you addressing me or Darkstar?

Bah. I goofed, didn't see that part of your reply for some reason. Sorry.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-01-12 07:47pm

OK, I'd just like to say that I put my quick mirror of RSA's website up at http://foobar.homelinux.net/archive/rsa/

Please note that, while it lacks any images, it is an accurate copy of RSA's site as it was BEFORE MoO posted his critique. Any after-the-fact changes between this one and his current site should be plainly visible.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-12 08:26pm

Holy crap. I'm reading through his "rebuttal" (and I use that word lightly), right now. He really IS insane. I mean, honestly. There's no way that a sane person could write that and keep a straight face.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-01-12 08:38pm

Durandal wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Durandal wrote: They were being jammed, genius.
Are you addressing me or Darkstar?
Bah. I goofed, didn't see that part of your reply for some reason. Sorry.

No big deal. However, why did you change the second a of my user name to an i?

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-12 10:29pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Holy crap. I'm reading through his "rebuttal" (and I use that word lightly), right now. He really IS insane. I mean, honestly. There's no way that a sane person could write that and keep a straight face.

Are you even going to bother 'rebutting' it? I wouldn't- this has the potential to go on forever ... not that watching him getting the smackdown isn't fun.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-12 10:32pm

Vympel wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:Holy crap. I'm reading through his "rebuttal" (and I use that word lightly), right now. He really IS insane. I mean, honestly. There's no way that a sane person could write that and keep a straight face.
Are you even going to bother 'rebutting' it? I wouldn't- this has the potential to go on forever ... not that watching him getting the smackdown isn't fun.

I had always hoped I wouldn't have to rebut this thing again. Although I started to when I read the first page of it, I've decided not to bother. As I said, if anyone is stupid enough to be fooled with such a "rebuttal," then there's not a lot I can do to help them. Frankly, if anyone is so stupid as to be fooled by this, then they've probably got all sorts of problems in real life that are far more important for them to take care of than this silly debate.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2003-01-12 11:18pm

Master of Ossus wrote:
Vympel wrote: Are you even going to bother 'rebutting' it? I wouldn't- this has the potential to go on forever ... not that watching him getting the smackdown isn't fun.
I had always hoped I wouldn't have to rebut this thing again. Although I started to when I read the first page of it, I've decided not to bother. As I said, if anyone is stupid enough to be fooled with such a "rebuttal," then there's not a lot I can do to help them. Frankly, if anyone is so stupid as to be fooled by this, then they've probably got all sorts of problems in real life that are far more important for them to take care of than this silly debate.

Nonetheless someone might consider a more organized response if only because only continued hammering will ever finally break through the WoI(TM).

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-12 11:51pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Holy crap. I'm reading through his "rebuttal" (and I use that word lightly), right now. He really IS insane. I mean, honestly. There's no way that a sane person could write that and keep a straight face.

I doubt his was, more likely it was twisted from muscle spasms and excessive drooling.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-01-12 11:54pm

Master of Ossus wrote:
Vympel wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:Holy crap. I'm reading through his "rebuttal" (and I use that word lightly), right now. He really IS insane. I mean, honestly. There's no way that a sane person could write that and keep a straight face.
Are you even going to bother 'rebutting' it? I wouldn't- this has the potential to go on forever ... not that watching him getting the smackdown isn't fun.
I had always hoped I wouldn't have to rebut this thing again. Although I started to when I read the first page of it, I've decided not to bother. As I said, if anyone is stupid enough to be fooled with such a "rebuttal," then there's not a lot I can do to help them. Frankly, if anyone is so stupid as to be fooled by this, then they've probably got all sorts of problems in real life that are far more important for them to take care of than this silly debate.

You know what pisses me off about this Ossus, its that you are ABSOLUTELY right and you shouldn't bother to refute his so called response. Its a steaming pile of fetid shit BUT we know from painful experience that he will crow that this nonresponse is actuially a concession and the sane ones will know better but the horde of rabid Trektards will all agree with him and all that hard work you did would be for naught.

That really pisses me off!!!

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-01-13 06:50pm

A little help.

Dumar seemed to think ground troops were important when he angrily and repeatedly confronted Weyoun regarding the plight of a Cardassian order,

Gee, thanks for the specific reference. Let's see . . . Damar was in a position of power, so I think it's probably limited to the last 48 hours or so of DS9. Shouldn't be too hard to find . . . idiot.

And he complained about Mike's manners? Anways "Strange Bedfellows"

DAMAR: The Klingons have attacked Septimus Three.
WEYOUN: I'm aware of that.
DAMAR: Are you also aware that they've landed fifteen divisions? The Cardassian troops will not survive without reinforcements.
WEYOUN: I assure you that the Septimus Three situation will be dealt with. We won't allow your brave soldiers to perish in vain. You have my word.

Later

MARTOK: Septimus Three will fall within the week! The Cardassian Eleventh Order is a reserve unit -- old men and walking wounded. They don't stand a chance.

And

DAMAR: Septimus Three has fallen!
WEYOUN: Excuse me?
DAMAR: Septimus Three -- an entire Cardassian Order has been wiped out! Five hundred thousand men!
WEYOUN: Oh, yes. A great tragedy.
DAMAR: You promised reinforcements!
WEYOUN: I promised no such thing. I said the situation would be dealt with and it was.
DAMAR: By leaving them to be slaughtered by the Klingons?
WEYOUN: If you will calm down and listen, I'll explain. (beat) The sacrifice made by the Eleventh Order was not in vain. They forced the Klingons to commit valuable troops and resources to capture a strategically worthless planet.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-01-13 06:57pm

Also

Funny he should say that, since the only ground combat I know of from that war is the personal combat O'Brien experienced on Setlik III, in the aftermath of the massacre (described in "The Wounded"[TNG]).

In "Prey" Janeway mentions her combat experience in the Cardassian War.

News Flash: the Cardassians lost.

In the post-war reshuffling of the border, we do know that at least one Federation planet (Dorvan V, as seen in "Journey's End"[TNG]) was ceded to the Cardassians, and that colonies of both sides ended up in a large demilitarized zone. However, we also know that Cardassia nearly broke itself by fighting the war with the Federation, as per Picard's discussions with his captor in "Chain of Command"[TNG]. We also know that the Cardassians gave up their claims to "clearly Cardassian" territories in the armistice, as per the conversation between Lemec and Jellico in that episode.

Further, based on what we know of it, only O'Brien directly served in the war zone, though Picard mentions once running from a Cardassian warship while in command of the Stargazer. This, out of all the Starfleet officers we've seen in the three TNG-era series. From the Federation's perspective, then, it appears to have been little more than a regional conflict, not the Federation-wide conflagration and war for survival that was the Dominion War. From the Cardassian perspective, given the territories they'd won during "the wars" (as per Gul Madred in "Chain..."), they'd kicked a few butts and then decided to go after the local big dog . . . and got schooled.

News Flash: You don't conceed territories when you win.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-01-13 09:36pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote: News Flash: You don't conceed territories when you win.

Both sides conceeded territories

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-01-13 10:03pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote: News Flash: You don't conceed territories when you win.
Both sides conceeded territories

That still doesn't prove the Fed won and the Cardies lost.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-01-14 03:36am

Darth Servo wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote: News Flash: You don't conceed territories when you win.
Both sides conceeded territories
That still doesn't prove the Fed won and the Cardies lost.

Well I never said it did, however consider the following. Take a look at the conditions those worlds were in, those worlds given to the Cardies weren't much to look at. Especially the one the Indians had to give up, it looked almost all desert. (Yes I realize planets have multiple climates)

In a small way it's like the solution to the Cuban Missile Crisis, the US dismantle it's obsolete missiles in Turkey, while the USSR had to remove it's missiles from Cuba.

The US won that incident......but the Soviets saved face. I think something similar happened during theat UFP/Cardie crisis.

Opinions?

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-01-15 08:17pm

No matter which way you slice it, the Federation didn't score any sort of crushing victory in the war if they had to give up territory. It's possible they gave up some strategically worthless systems in exchange for more valuable Cardassian ones to save the Cardies from total embarassment, but the fact that they had to negotiate a peace instead of simply forcing an unconditional surrender on the Cardassian Union indicates that the Federation was not capable (either militarily or politically) of totally defeating the Cardassians.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-01-17 05:41pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote: News Flash: You don't conceed territories when you win.
Both sides conceeded territories

So? Federation not winning!=Cardassians winning

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-01-17 06:15pm

The only energy absorption we've seen in Star Wars is when Yoda absorbed Dooku's "Force lightning" in Attack of the Clones. However, suggesting that they can absorb any energy because they can absorb Force energy is absurd . . .

Wrong again Mr Anderson. In ESB Darth vader absorbs Han's blaster bolts at Lando's double cross at the dinner table.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-01-17 07:08pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote: News Flash: You don't conceed territories when you win.
Both sides conceeded territories

So? Federation not winning!=Cardassians winning

The Cardassians didn't win, they saved face. They got a few crappy planets and the UFP avoided a war.