9 million stormtroopers

[Hot Hands Harry]

[quote=lord Martiya] One of these companies is probably the Spaarti Corporation.[/quote]
Most defiantly not. The Spaarti Corporation clones were used by the CIS for there clone army late in the war. They were captured and sent to Wayland.

[quote=PainRack]
To sidetrack this discussion, has there been any official fluff on why
1. The citizens of the Galactic Empire apparently dislike clones(in early EU) [/quote]
The EU has some people dislike droids probably for the same reason. Both clones and droids were weapons of the Clone Wars.

[quote=PainRack]2. The citizens of the Galactic Empire only had rumours that the Stormtrooper corps were clone based? [/quote]
Because the new clones did not know that they were clones to begin with is the most likely answer.

[quote=General Schatten] Weren't they also prone to going completely psychopathic?[/quote]
In time yes. But their perfectly stable cannon fodder for about a month or so. It’s the ones that live that are the problem. A simple solution would be to crio them until needed. That would make them last longer and most likely their saleing point.

[quote=General Schatten]So wouldn't the government close the company right the fuck down and confiscate everything rather than nationalize and let dangerous clones loose upon their Empire?[/quote]
That’s what nationalizing is. The Government confiscating the company and running it themselves. Of course it does not really apply with for the Spaarit Corporation they were blown up along with the CIS clone army and the surviving tubes sent to a secret location. Not used for the Republic clones army.

[quote=phongn]The problem wasn't the Spaarti method, the problem was that clones grew too quickly would resonate with the original in the Force. Slowing the process down (or using ysalimiri) fixed that.[/quote]
One year was the magic number if I remember the TTT correctly. The Kamino took about 400-460 days to grow to combat ready, which matches older EU.

[phongn]

You need to encapsulate the person's name in quotes, e.g.

Code: Select all

[quote="name"] Quoted text [/quote]

[Adam Reynolds]

Just enable BBCode, the encapsulation was there but without BBCode it does nothing.

[Connor MacLeod]

But the quotation marks weren't.

[Connor MacLeod]

I would just like to point out that ironically in “Odds” it established a upper limit of 460 days for a Kamino clone to be born, grown, trained and ready for combat.

In the first Battle of Kamino all 1 million new ready to be deployed clones were killed and 1-3 million unready clones were killed. Basically wiping out all clones in production in the City of Tipoca.

“Odds” established that Tipoca was still producing clones and that there is a batch ready to be deployed 460 days after the Battle of Genonosis.

Since the Kominoens style is to produce 4 to 5 staggered batches at the same time (eggs, infants, preteen, teenager and ready to be deployed) that’s 1 million clones from Tipoca alone every 115 days or 92 days as a upper limit.

Since the Battle of Kamino happened about two months after Genonosis the number could be lowered to just 400 days. Meaning 1 million clones every 100 to 80 days. I like this and it matches the established fact that it takes more then a year to grow a non mad clone.



By the way “Odds” also established that three clone army producing companies were nationalized and forced to produce clones for the Republic some time early in the war.

Well alot of the Kaminoan method is designed to emphasize a long long period of refinement and training and really "perfection." It's not something that is a problem under long-term (peaceful) conditions but its not really practical in wartime. The other problem is that the Clones keep aging apparently at that rate.

I don't see the Kaminoan method (as in the movie) working any faster without dramatically altering the growth rate of the clones (IE 20:1 age ratio) which would also cut down the viability of the clones dramatically (they'd only have a few years of usefulness, tops). IIRC one of the Kaminoan scientists found a way to reverse it but it wasn't "general knowledge."

460 days WOULD be closer to what you achieve with Spaarti technology. But even if its not Spaarti tech, then the clones would still be qualitatively different due to the difference in training time (less than a year compared to the ten years of the original batch.)

SW supposedly has time/manipulation or stasis technology after a fashion (not time machines, but more like "slow the present time to a standstill or speed it up") os I suppose you could use that to facilitate quicker growing.. but they may already do that.

Edit: I would also argue there are probably more than just "four or five" staggered batches. Once the clones get to the point where they can walk/talk/eat/dress on their own, they're all probably learning and training with all the other clones of their age group, so at that point they'd probably be grouped by no more than a year or two difference. (especially given that all of the clones would be around 20 years old or so by the time of the BAttle of Geonosis.)

Moreover, in that context, it would indicate that all the "battle ready" clones (or even close to battle ready.. say 16, 17, 18, 19 years old clones) were lost, but the "next" category in the proession (say 15-17) was just about ready.

[PainRack]

Because the new clones did not know that they were clones to begin with is the most likely answer.

Still, one would ask why it was only "rumoured" that the stormtrooper corp was clones. After all, they had precedent............

I would love to know how the later EU has handled this retcon, but apparently, it just been hushed up.

[lord Martiya]

For what I know, clonetroopers were a minority elite in the Stormtroopers, and there's only one confirmed clonetroopers unit, the 501st Legion (according to both SW Databank and Wookiepedia), that comprised part of the Death Star I complement and fought at Hoth and Endor as Vader's personal army.

[Hot Hands Harry]

You need to encapsulate the person's name in quotes, e.g.

Thanks. Weird some other boards I went to didn’t need quotation marks to make quotes in them. Weird again I had something else happen that screwed it up but I noticed it in preview this time.

Well alot of the Kaminoan method is designed to emphasize a long long period of refinement and training and really "perfection." It's not something that is a problem under long-term (peaceful) conditions but its not really practical in wartime. The other problem is that the Clones keep aging apparently at that rate.

I always just assumed that the part of the clone army we saw in AOTC was just the prototype for the mass production army. Only ageing at twice the normal rate would allow them to tweak the possess as they went along. With proof of faster clone growth rates it looks like I probably am right.

I don't see the Kaminoan method (as in the movie) working any faster without dramatically altering the growth rate of the clones (IE 20:1 age ratio) which would also cut down the viability of the clones dramatically (they'd only have a few years of usefulness, tops). IIRC one of the Kaminoan scientists found a way to reverse it but it wasn't "general knowledge."

The Kaminoans probably know about the under one year clone madness. If I remember correctly the Spaarti clones from the TTT age at a normal rate or just slightly faster then normal (correct me if I’m wrong here). So using that and assuming a normal human in SW live for about 100 years. A clone using the 460 day growth would come out at age 20 and have about a max of 80 years use but more likely 60 years.

460 days WOULD be closer to what you achieve with Spaarti technology. But even if its not Spaarti tech, then the clones would still be qualitatively different due to the difference in training time (less than a year compared to the ten years of the original batch.)

That’s what flash memory burns are for. Its not as reliable as actual training but its pretty good. It would be pretty easy to do now that I think about it just change the number of there unit in there memory and bam. It would explane why there are a lot of the same clone nick names. It worked for the Spaarti clones and the CIS clone army. I remember flash memory being used for the new clone in the Storm troopers ranks. Like them not knowing that they are in fact clones.

SW supposedly has time/manipulation or stasis technology after a fashion (not time machines, but more like "slow the present time to a standstill or speed it up") os I suppose you could use that to facilitate quicker growing.. but they may already do that.

I don’t think time/manipulation or stasis is necessary. Just fast growing drugs. Even in TTT fast growing clones was not the problem. It was clone madness.

Edit: I would also argue there are probably more than just "four or five" staggered batches. Once the clones get to the point where they can walk/talk/eat/dress on their own, they're all probably learning and training with all the other clones of their age group, so at that point they'd probably be grouped by no more than a year or two difference. (especially given that all of the clones would be around 20 years old or so by the time of the BAttle of Geonosis.)

Good point and your probably right. I was just stating that there are confirmed by visual canon of a lower limit of four or five staggered batches of 1 million each per city. With a lower limit of three Kamino cities for a lower limit of 12 clones as of AotC.

Moreover, in that context, it would indicate that all the "battle ready" clones (or even close to battle ready.. say 16, 17, 18, 19 years old clones) were lost,

By battle ready the context is fully trained and are waiting to get on the next Accalator that comes by to pick them up (IE 20 years old). Which was 1 million by the way.

but the "next" category in the proession (say 15-17) was just about ready.

Using the every two years is a batch I get about 9 million killed clones at the battle of Kamino. Which they fully recovered from in 460 days.

By the way the Clone Wars Adventure story “One of a Kind” which shows that the Kaminoans have such a great clone producing capacity that they are still making clones on the side to third party while still supplying the Republic with clones. Does anyone know when this takes place.

[Connor MacLeod]

I always just assumed that the part of the clone army we saw in AOTC was just the prototype for the mass production army. Only ageing at twice the normal rate would allow them to tweak the possess as they went along. With proof of faster clone growth rates it looks like I probably am right.

The Kaminoan method is not really good for producing clones "quicker" because the quicker they grow, the quicker they die. Again, they cannot reverse the aging process easily.

The Kaminoans probably know about the under one year clone madness. If I remember correctly the Spaarti clones from the TTT age at a normal rate or just slightly faster then normal (correct me if I’m wrong here). So using that and assuming a normal human in SW live for about 100 years. A clone using the 460 day growth would come out at age 20 and have about a max of 80 years use but more likely 60 years.

The "clone madness' bit Insofar as I have seen is simply a product of the Spaarti process. I've seen no evidence suggesting it applies to the Kaminoan method as well.

Further, I've never seen anything suggesting how fast the Spaarti clones age at.

I also don't see how you're comingup with "sixty to eighty" insofar as it applies to the Kaminoans, though. The Kaminoans use a drastically different cloning technique than what Spaarti cylinders use, which emphasizes "quality" over "speed". The Kaminoan method will produce you good troops given sufficient time (for training and whatnot) but the Spaarti method will only provide good troops if you provide the right "material" (which is why Thrawn cloned only his best)

Again, you cannot grow Kaminoan clones "faster" by their method without drastically cutting down their useful lifespan.

That’s what flash memory burns are for. Its not as reliable as actual training but its pretty good. It would be pretty easy to do now that I think about it just change the number of there unit in there memory and bam. It would explane why there are a lot of the same clone nick names. It worked for the Spaarti clones and the CIS clone army. I remember flash memory being used for the new clone in the Storm troopers ranks. Like them not knowing that they are in fact clones.

The Kaminoans don't use Spaarti tech as far as I know, and the "flash imprinting" bit is part of the Spaarti process. The Kaminoans compress their learning techniques greatly, but its not "instantly" uploaded. They still train and fight. (We see clones training still even months after Geonosis in Cestus Deception.)

I don’t think time/manipulation or stasis is necessary. Just fast growing drugs. Even in TTT fast growing clones was not the problem. It was clone madness.

"Fast growing drugs?" WTF?

Good point and your probably right. I was just stating that there are confirmed by visual canon of a lower limit of four or five staggered batches of 1 million each per city. With a lower limit of three Kamino cities for a lower limit of 12 clones as of AotC.

This also tends to cast doubts on whether the "460 days" thing was referencing the "from cells to full grown clone", though. They run it in stages, an dthey've always got at least "one" stage in production at every point in the process (growing in the chambers, learning on those helmets, then physically training with the equipment and whatnot in the complex, etc.) the 460 days would apply to the next "batch" which would be around a couple years or less behond the ones that were "killed"

By battle ready the context is fully trained and are waiting to get on the next Accalator that comes by to pick them up (IE 20 years old). Which was 1 million by the way.

Then that just means they had some that were "close to fully trained".. ie the 16-18 year olds, perhaps.[/quote]

Using the every two years is a batch I get about 9 million killed clones at the battle of Kamino. Which they fully recovered from in 460 days.

I'm not following you here.

[lord Martiya]

That’s what flash memory burns are for. Its not as reliable as actual training but its pretty good. It would be pretty easy to do now that I think about it just change the number of there unit in there memory and bam. It would explane why there are a lot of the same clone nick names. It worked for the Spaarti clones and the CIS clone army. I remember flash memory being used for the new clone in the Storm troopers ranks. Like them not knowing that they are in fact clones.

The Kaminoans don't use Spaarti tech as far as I know, and the "flash imprinting" bit is part of the Spaarti process. The Kaminoans compress their learning techniques greatly, but its not "instantly" uploaded. They still train and fight. (We see clones training still even months after Geonosis in Cestus Deception.)

And we see clones in training in AOTC. A movie. I don't remember the letters of the various canon, but I remember that the movies override every other thing, so...