Professor Claims to have proven existance of God...

[Twoyboy]

Teehee.

Even with his vague "definition" (is that an oxymoron?) of god, he still only "proves" any monotheistic god. Christian, Islam, etc.

In fact, not even that. Doesn't the Hindu religion say Bramha and the Earth were born from a cosmic egg or something? This sounds much closer to what he "proved".

[sketerpot]

He could just as easily have ditched this weak-ass "trinity" stuff and just said that since there's only one "God", Islam is the one true religion. And Einstein proves that Mohammed is His prophet somehow! Buy my book full of pathetic wish-fulfillment fantasies!

[Darth Raptor]

It's targeted at lapsed Christians, obviously. How else are you supposed to get from "God exists" to "yes, THAT God" to "Jesus" to "butt sex is bad"? Not with any measure of rational thought, that's for damn sure.

[Guardsman Bass]

His view on the trinity is bizarre, to say the least. Here's an excerpt from the first chapter, which is available on-line:

We can also use the physical laws to tell us what the Cosmological Singularity—God—is like. The laws of physics tell us that our universe began in an initial singularity, and it will end in a final singularity. The laws also tell us that ours is but one of an infinite number of universes, all of which begin and end in a singularity. If we look carefully at the collection of all the universes—this collection is called the multiverse—we see that there is a third singularity, at which the multiverse began. But physics shows us that these three apparently distinct singularities are actually one singularity. The Three are One.

There is one religion which claims that God is a Trinity: Christianity. According to Christianity, God consists of Three Persons: God the Father (the First Person), God the Son (the Second Person), and God the Holy Ghost (the Third Person). But there are not three Gods, only one God. Using physics to study the structure of the Cosmological Singularity, we can see that indeed the three “parts” of the Singularity can be distinguished by employing the idea of personhood. In particular, physics can be used to show how it is possible for a man—Jesus, according to Christianity—to actually be the part of the Singularity that connects the Initial and Final Singularities. So the Incarnation makes perfectly good sense from the point of view of physics.

I hope that didn't break any rules on posting copyrighted material; I posted it because it's available to look at free on the Random House Publisher website.

[sketerpot]

Hinduism has something similar to a trinity as well. The real question: is this guy dishonest, stupid, or both?

[Nephtys]

So the cornerstone of his proof is that he claims the universe is governed by three forces in some magic vague 'singularity'? It half sounds like he wants to add 'phase variance' or perhaps 'subspace resonance' to that line to make it sound more scientific.

If a 'Trinity' is a part of it, well. Damn, he just proved that 'The Legend of Zelda' is a historical documentary.

[Guardsman Bass]

I would suggest reading the entire excerpt. It's actually kind of . . . sad. He sounds like a guy desperate to justify his religion without resorting to faith.

[Vanas]

But proof denies faith and without faith, God can't exist. QED.

More to the point: 'Eventually the universe will be full'. Sorry? I was under the impression that it was expanding, so everything's getting further apart, and there's nothing else popping into existence wildly. Unless there is a big crunch. But I rather doubt that that would be God. More a very small dot.

[Patrick Degan]

We can also use the physical laws to tell us what the Cosmological Singularity—God—is like. The laws of physics tell us that our universe began in an initial singularity, and it will end in a final singularity.

But hasn't the Big Crunch sort of fallen out of vogue in astrophysics recently, Dr. Tipler?

[Lisa]

vaguely reminds me of "god's debris" by scott adams.

[Darth Wong]

I would suggest reading the entire excerpt. It's actually kind of . . . sad. He sounds like a guy desperate to justify his religion without resorting to faith.

Every paragraph reeks of desperation. I can't imagine that it would be any more obvious if I kept reading more paragraphs.

[Rye]

We can also use the physical laws to tell us what the Cosmological Singularity—God—is like.

Heh, uh-oh, he's fallen to pantheism already. What appears to be an unthinking natural phenomenon is actually a god. So we can also use physical laws to tell us what the principles of stormcloud formation - Zeus - is like.

The laws of physics tell us that our universe began in an initial singularity, and it will end in a final singularity.

Now, I'm not an expert by any means, but wouldn't that just be one singularity? Why would it count as a different singularity? If you put a cake in an oven and take it out when it's done and expanded, it's a different cake?

The laws also tell us that ours is but one of an infinite number of universes, all of which begin and end in a singularity. If we look carefully at the collection of all the universes—this collection is called the multiverse—we see that there is a third singularity, at which the multiverse began. But physics shows us that these three apparently distinct singularities are actually one singularity. The Three are One.

Isn't this assuming some sort of external time dimension? And didn't he just say that there's infinite singularities? I don't get how you'd bring up three singularities if you think you're dealing with infinite singularities.

There is one religion which claims that God is a Trinity: Christianity.

Hinduism. The trimurti. Interestingly, the three different singularities he mentions that are actually one actually reflect the hindu scriptures better than christian scriptures.

There's the creator (Brahma, in gobbledegook, the originating singularity), the maintainer (Vishnu, space and time between the two other singularities) and the destroyer (Shiva, or the big crunch).

According to Christianity, God consists of Three Persons: God the Father (the First Person), God the Son (the Second Person), and God the Holy Ghost (the Third Person). But there are not three Gods, only one God. Using physics to study the structure of the Cosmological Singularity, we can see that indeed the three “parts” of the Singularity can be distinguished by employing the idea of personhood. In particular, physics can be used to show how it is possible for a man—Jesus, according to Christianity—to actually be the part of the Singularity that connects the Initial and Final Singularities. So the Incarnation makes perfectly good sense from the point of view of physics.

Initial, connecting and final singularities: Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Predating Jesus by a long way, plus you don't have to explain how a carpenter's son in the armpit of the roman empire that failed as a messiah somehow represents space and time between the creation and eschaton.

You have to laugh, I guess. It reminds me of when kids will watch a documentary or hear a few buzzwords and then tell their friends about it the next day to try and sound profound, like they've just found the key to the universe.

[Covenant]

I would also like to hear this guy's reactions to teh idea that we're not going to have any variety of big crunch whatsoever. So, what then? God is Dead, and was somehow Killed prior to the summation of his plan? It makes for an interesting fictional universe if you take this stuff to be true.

It reminds me precisely of the proposed end of Andromeda, where God is represented by gravity trying to bring everything back together, as a force of infinite love, and the demons struggle to defeat love and keep the universe from crunching back together.

I wonder if the Andromeda guy can sue this fellow for copyright infringement. Bad fiction shouldn't steal from good.

[Patrick Degan]

I wonder what's gotten Dr. Tipler so scared lately.

[Wicked Pilot]

The real question: is this guy dishonest, stupid, or both?

Never underestimate the ability of extremely smart people to compartmentalize and then rationalize away bullshit religious beliefs. The smarter you are the better you can be at it.


In other news, you all laughed when I told the story of the Flying Spaghetti Monster! How does it feel now that the foot is on the other noodle?

[Tanasinn]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Christian trinity something they just stole from another religion, anyway?

[Darth Raptor]

vaguely reminds me of "god's debris" by scott adams.

Except in God's Debris, humanity becomes God via technicism, collectivism and a technological singularity, not a gravitational one. The new God then promptly annihilates itself (which is the only thing a truly omniscient being could be compelled to do), recreating the universe and restarting the process anew.

Plus, that book didn't hurt my brain like this crap does. I especially enjoyed its "stop trying to anthropomorphize God, you idiots" message.

[Guardsman Bass]

So, if I decided, right now, that I was inventing the Church of the Holy Threesome, Mr. Tipler, does that mean that Cosmological Physics supports Guy-Girl-Girl?

In any case, it's mostly just pathetic unsupported definitions and grotesque stretches of what the evidence shows. It's sad, more so because Tipler apparently has become more religious over time, and so has to bullshit his way through this (at least considering that his first claim about God was simply that God would be the ultimate sum of existence at the end of the universe).

[sketerpot]

The real question: is this guy dishonest, stupid, or both?

Never underestimate the ability of extremely smart people to compartmentalize and then rationalize away bullshit religious beliefs. The smarter you are the better you can be at it.

But he sucks at it. He sucks so hard that he almost qualifies as a fourth "singularity".

[General Trelane (Retired)]

Tippler says his equations prove there is only one true religion: Christianity.

Ahh, I see. Now please, Mr. Tippler, do tell us which sect of Christianity is the true Christianity. . .