SD.net SSD

[Darth Wong]

Despite the 10k year tech difference, SW humans still appear to be the same as us. And the borg are very adept at taking knowledge form assimilated humans. All it takes is 1 borgtard who WANTS to be assimilated to turn his entire ship over to the borg. They would know how to use most of the tech within hours, if not how to begin making it.

Explain how.

Well let me ask you this, what do you think would happen if the Borg assimialate a group of SW Engineers who know all ther is about HyperMater Reactors.

Do you understand what a design engineer does for a living? We make drawings. We don't build anything ourselves, but we supervise the technicians who do. And we don't necessarily know how to design the machinery our technicians use in order to fabricate parts, because other engineers specialized in those items while we specialized in ours. We have a general idea of how they work, but there is a very wide gap between that and actually having enough expertise to design one of those things from scratch. And even the guys who do design the things don't really know much about how to make the individual pieces and parts used in order to construct them. You would need to collect a vast array of people in order to assemble the accumulated knowledge you need in order to duplicate a tech base.

[Stark]

Well let me ask you this, what do you think would happen if the Borg assimialate a group of SW Engineers who know all ther is about HyperMater Reactors.

Completely irrelevant. He says 'turn a ship over to borg = borg have all Imperial tech within hours'. That's stupid and wrong.

[Connor MacLeod]

Do you understand what a design engineer does for a living? We make drawings. We don't build anything ourselves, but we supervise the technicians who do. And we don't necessarily know how to design the machinery our technicians use in order to fabricate parts, because other engineers specialized in those items while we specialized in ours. We have a general idea of how they work, but there is a very wide gap between that and actually having enough expertise to design one of those things from scratch. And even the guys who do design the things don't really know much about how to make the individual pieces and parts used in order to construct them. You would need to collect a vast array of people in order to assemble the accumulated knowledge you need in order to duplicate a tech base.

Moreover, that's just the engineering side, isn't it? That doesn't even cover all the scientists who would have to be captured to get a theoretical understanding of the physics at hand.

Then, I imagine there is the infrastructure behind that tech. Building the mateirals and components for ships, su pplying them, the shipyards and other facilities for repairing or making them, etc. And alot of that will also require understanding of both the engineering and physics of not only the ships themselves, but the associated stuff to build and maintain them.

Hell, if oyu want to get nitpicky, how the hell would they handle adapting the tech base to their own existing tech? That would require far far more than just snatching up a buttload of scientists and engineers.

I've lost track of how many times I've seen some pro-Borg guy claim that all the Borg would have to do to "steal" an enemy's tech is to beam up a buncha people they find in the outer Rim (mainly because SW tech is so bloody prevalent. Of course, many people can operate a computer or MP3 player but don't neccesarily have the knowledge or capability to build or repair one without the neccesary components.)

[Connor MacLeod]

More specifically, why the fuck is the Borg's "assimilation" treated as if it can do anything when that is clearly a no-limits fallacy?

[Ghost Rider]

More specifically, why the fuck is the Borg's "assimilation" treated as if it can do anything when that is clearly a no-limits fallacy?

Because they never think through with any sort of logic. I mean I and likely many others have seen the sci fi cliche of "If you brought back a car into 1400-1500-1600 you could make a car in ancient times!!!" or some such nonsense that a great deal of Twilight Zones or Outer Limits episodes. And the people who take this at face value build from there.

The Borg Assimiliation Techinque is literally the same plot tactic. The Borg do there snazzy jazz technique and people apply this to any and everything.

And treating it like a fallacy is beyond the education of many of the wankers, as is.

[Revan's Fire]

More specifically, why the fuck is the Borg's "assimilation" treated as if it can do anything when that is clearly a no-limits fallacy?

Well, as I see it, it's the classic idea of sufficiently advanced technology appearing to be magic. However, Trekkies fail to distinguish different levels of this magic, and lump anything they can't understand (ST, SW, any real big sci-fi universe) into that category.

Most Rabid Borg-Wanking Trekkies for all of their technobabble are merely saying 'they reach into the mystical ether and use elemental forces to do their bidding', the fancy names are merely a more convoluted way of stating this. So when they encounter other sci-fi, they attempt to apply the same principles, regardless of how outclassed they may be. Of course, that's only my take on it, and certainly some of them are just plain crazy.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Explain how.

Well let me ask you this, what do you think would happen if the Borg assimialate a group of SW Engineers who know all ther is about HyperMater Reactors.

Do you understand what a design engineer does for a living?

Nope, which is why I asked the question genuinlly and not in jest. However you explanation clears things up.. "Knowledge" does not equal replicating a tech base.

It does however make me wonder, what the limits of Borg assimilation is? How long would they need to begin replicating a SW industrial base?

If One Dumbass in a fully stocked SSD Did somehow tun his ship over to the borg, how long would it take them to begin doing things with it? Alas we are supposed to have a fully "obdiant" crew, so if some lunatic sstarts marching them into assimilation, the borg WOULD begin getting a step in overall SW Tech understanding. Could they immdiatly begin moutning Turbolasers and Hypermater reacots, evidently not.

But It would happen given time.

Perhaps it is a moot point? Now matter how many Borg wankers try to "take them over" I forese 10x the amount arriving to "take them out"

Which of course lands me back on the outskirts of the Galaxy, waiting for things to die down, and partying with the more openminded of my crew

[Stark]

There's no reason they'd even gain enough understanding to be able to work with the materials or physics concepts invovled. It's not like regular Borg assmilation, where they get new applications of similar tech level: even if they knew how to make/find hypermatter, there's no reason they'd even know how to build the refineries/fabricators responsible. The Empire can harness black holes for power, the Borg wouldn't even know where to fucking START or what to build them out of or how to design them efficiently.

[Darth Wong]

Or to put it another way, if you assimilate a car and completely understand how it works, that doesn't mean you'll have any idea how to make all the refined alloys, plastics, rubbers, electronics, and refined gasoline that go into it. For that, you'd need to assimilate a shitload of factories and other industrial facilities.

[Darth Wong]

Moreover, that's just the engineering side, isn't it? That doesn't even cover all the scientists who would have to be captured to get a theoretical understanding of the physics at hand.

Actually, that's quite wrong. An engineer must understand the theoretical physics behind whatever he designs for a living, so the scientists are completely redundant unless you want to do research into new physics principles beyond those that are required for the technological device in question. In fact, the idea of engineers successfully applying scientific principles that they don't understand is quite frankly ridiculous.

I've lost track of how many times I've seen some pro-Borg guy claim that all the Borg would have to do to "steal" an enemy's tech is to beam up a buncha people they find in the outer Rim (mainly because SW tech is so bloody prevalent.

These people are invariably laypeople and in most cases, they're just high-school kiddies.

[Alien-Carrot]

OK, while i think the borg, if written correctly, would have been the most badass badguys ever, i do take offence to being called a borgtard.

And this is posted as a worst case scenario. Note that i also posted a plausable and easy to initiate solution to said problem.

While i admit it would be extremely difficult and timeconsuming for the bord to be able to reproduce SW tech, the gfact remains that they woul have AN ENTIRE SSD WITH FULL CREW.

So all they would have to do is combad another SSD, with a few hundred cubes as backup.

Even if it proves impossible to assimilate the technology, they can still assimilate the people, and their knowledge of how to use the technology.

This in itself is reason to be cautious, and avoid combad until you are assure total victory.

As to destroying the vinculum, i remember from somewhere that borg vessels are still 60% combat effective with 75% of the vessel damaged or destroyed.

But damn if i can't remember the source.

Now that i look at the math to that, i realize it's probably some trektards attempt to make borg vessles survive more than 1 TL hit.

Fuck freeing the trillions of drones, waste them all.

[Stark]

Oh god, you're retarded. Not only no sources, but the claims you make are clearly debunked by the show itself (where Borg cubes can pop like balloons and the Borg are so stupid they can't work out HOW THEIR OWN TECH WORKS to kill S76123863).

Having an Executor assimilated by the Borg would simply mean they'd have another ship to drive in a straight line while firing one gun at a time. All the quartermasters and enginehands in the fleet aren't going to change that. There's pretty much no reason to assume they'd be able to do anything with the technology.

[Surlethe]

This thread went into some depth on how little you actually know if you absorb a few bits of knowledge here and there. For a concrete analogy, think of a finished product as the capstone to the Great Pyramid. To get there, you have to build the entire pyramid; if you just steal the capstone, you won't be able to stick it where it belongs because you haven't got anything in between the foundation and the top.

Here's a basic rule of thumb based on the ideas presented here: the difficulty of implementing an assimilated tech is exponentially proportional to the difference between that tech level and the Borg's tech level.

[Connor MacLeod]

Actually, that's quite wrong. An engineer must understand the theoretical physics behind whatever he designs for a living, so the scientists are completely redundant unless you want to do research into new physics principles beyond those that are required for the technological device in question. In fact, the idea of engineers successfully applying scientific principles that they don't understand is quite frankly ridiculous.

You're right. I stand corrected. Then again, that only removes the "physics" aspect from it, which is perhaps the LEAST complicated variable in the process. It's still far more complex than just nabbing a few guys on the edges of say, ,the Outer Rim and just having the entire tech base at your disposal.

These people are invariably laypeople and in most cases, they're just high-school kiddies.

I dunno. I seem to recall that impression being somewhat fairly common in Trek. Didn't they fairly often have one guy or a small grgoup of people being responsible for coming up with complex and advanced technology (or entire vehicles) on their own? (That chick who designed the GCS maybe?)

Or maybe its the idea that "having a technology very very common means that its very easily reverse engineered/adapted." Reverse engineering seems to be dismissed almost as readily as borg assimilation is.

[Starglider]

Reproducing the very latest technology will be /extremely/ difficult, but doing better than what they've got will be rather less so. Imagine a hive mind of mages who've come here from the late 19th century on their time travelling steamship. Imagine how hard it would be to get all the knowledge required to build an F-22, not to mention the facilities involved, without even the knowledge of modern engineering to know where to look. You'd have to assimilate tens of people just to get a rough idea of what modern industry looks like, then track down and assimilate thousands of specialists to get all the knowledge required, and that won't get you any closer to having the advanced factory and military grade components required to build one.

OTOH, assimilating a few science teachers, mechanical engineers and navy technicians will sure let you upgrade that steamship, perhaps to 1940s destroyer level of effectiveness. It won't help versus the military but at least they'd be able to stand up to the coast guard.

[Stark]

Hive mind of *RETARDED* mages, please. The Borg are out-computed by the Voyager's holodoc with regards to their OWN technology. Their capacity for analysis is very suspect.

[Isolder74]

Oh god, you're retarded. Not only no sources, but the claims you make are clearly debunked by the show itself (where Borg cubes can pop like balloons and the Borg are so stupid they can't work out HOW THEIR OWN TECH WORKS to kill S76123863).

Having an Executor assimilated by the Borg would simply mean they'd have another ship to drive in a straight line while firing one gun at a time. All the quartermasters and enginehands in the fleet aren't going to change that. There's pretty much no reason to assume they'd be able to do anything with the technology.

And the moment the rest of us found out about it, including us borg hunters out here, we'd move in and blast that SSD to itty bitty bits before we'd let them do anything with it. How many board members would consider this an immediete threat again?

[Ghost Rider]

I still wonder to anyone who yabbers Borg Assimiliation, even what's need. Is how the fuck do they get the people?

Literally even Starglider's example is fucking stupid by the virtue of ", assimilating a few science teachers, mechanical engineers and navy technicians will sure let you upgrade that steamship" is one of the more retarded things.

So exactly where are you going to find the people who are specfic to this and then glean the correct knowledge. Given we've seen their utter failure in Voyager, and hell TNG of doing anything close to gleaning knowledge given as Stark pointed out...the Holodoc out thought the Borg collective.

[Alien-Carrot]

Pilots kno how to pilot. Gunners know how to gun. Navigators know how to navigate.

They dont require all knowledge on all aspects of how to BUILD ships, guns, or nav computers, to know how to USE them.

Weather or not the borg fly in a straight line towars you or not, if they have a SSD with a crew of people trained in all aspects of its use, it still represents a danger.

A danger to be avoided at all costs. I dont mean avoid any assimilated SSD. I mean avoid letting one get assimilated in the first place. Hence my post about preventing contact with them, just in case we underestimate their abilities.


But i have the opinion that the borg are dangerous, and you all have the opinion that they would be hive-mind lemmings.

Since its obvious none of us will change our opinions, I'll prevent contact, while thousands of 0-posters and 12 year olds try to take out the collective without a plan or any cohesion as a unit.

I will use my TL's to destroy any SSD that get severly damged (beyond any hope of escape) and any cube that get within transporter range of wounded ships.

While they may not be able to beam through the hull, that can still beam to the exterior of the hul, and find a way in.

Hopefully i can avoid getting shot at by some pre-pubescent asstard until the rest of you manage to create a cohesive unit to save the day.

[Ghost Rider]

You are the prepubescent moron. And honestly your analogy is shit, and lastly?

Try and get a spellchecker. There is nothing aside from an education that will help your pathetic grammar, but your spelling is near hitting the delete hammer just to get rid of the bandwidth waste.

[Alien-Carrot]

Given we've seen their utter failure in Voyager, and hell TNG of doing anything close to gleaning knowledge given as Stark pointed out...the Holodoc out thought the Borg collective.

Borg assimilate picard, riker fires massive overwanked main deflector beam at them, borg have adapted due to picards knowledge of the beam.

Which makes no sense, because while picard may have known WHAT the deflector was doing, he probably wouldnt know HOW. He's a negotiator, not an engineer.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Does anyone know how much useful (to the Borg at any rate) information would be contained in an Executor class ship's computers, given that if someone simply handed it to the Borg none of the data or equipment would be destroyed?

[Lord Revan]

Given we've seen their utter failure in Voyager, and hell TNG of doing anything close to gleaning knowledge given as Stark pointed out...the Holodoc out thought the Borg collective.

Borg assimilate picard, riker fires massive overwanked main deflector beam at them, borg have adapted due to picards knowledge of the beam.

Which makes no sense, because while picard may have known WHAT the deflector was doing, he probably wouldnt know HOW. He's a negotiator, not an engineer.

did happen to forgot that the Federation and the Borg use more or less the same techbase and in some cases the Borg are more advanced then UFP, while the Empire is alot more advanced then the borg with several key tech being totally alien to the borg.

have ever thought that maybe once the borg figured out what the deflector was about to do figuring out (even with their limited capability) how to stop it isn't such a big problem

[Darth Wong]

Borg assimilate picard, riker fires massive overwanked main deflector beam at them, borg have adapted due to picards knowledge of the beam.

Explain why the fuck this theory is necessary, when the Borg might simply have strong enough shields to deflect the beam and decided to raise them.

[Crossroads Inc.]

After the recent purge it seems the the TOP limit of SSD's will be 300 or so. If the amount is restricted to posters with over 100 posts, the Numbers drop to only 1000.

I'd estimate the number of "top" posters to be around 200 or so.

Which should give the people who are Serious about this thread some good numbers to work with...

you know, both of them...