Jedi tactics

[PainRack]

The strange thing is Luke Skywalker. Mara Jade for example notes that Luke skywalker uses both a blaster and a lightsabre during the Thrawn trilogy and before he became a Jedi Master, he wasn't adverse to using guns when needed.
So, one wonders why apart from the Mykr strike mission, the NJO jedi don't use blasters more often.

[Lord Revan]

I dunno about the New Jedi Order, but according to the teachings of the Old Jedi Order, they use lightsabers party because it's such a short range weapon, so that you must look the person in the eye when you kill him/her/it.

or at least that's how it was explained in the Medstar dualogy

the NJO could have similar princibles.

[DarthShady]

Why would the jedi use blasters against small numbers of criminals, when it is clearly more effective to simply reflect the enemies shots with their lightsabers.

[Dark Flame]

Why would the jedi use blasters against small numbers of criminals, when it is clearly more effective to simply reflect the enemies shots with their lightsabers.

Except the part where it's not necessarily as simple to reflect a bolt back to it's source as it is to fire it. Not every Jedi is capable of doing that all the time. Against one common criminal, the average Jedi probably could, but some Jedi can't, and there may be other circumstances where even skilled Jedi can't do it.

Also, what if the criminal has some other form of weapon that a Jedi can't just deflect back at them? Then they would be either SOL or forced to close to lightsaber range. At the very least, having a blaster would provide some more tactical flexibility to Jedi.

[Lord Revan]

well as said Jedi (apart of the NJO) are more of a police force then a military so they tend to try to avoid situations where they need to kill anyone

and a lightsaber combinied with semi mythical reputation of the Jedi Order does exactly that, also weapons that lightsabers can't deflect tend to be rare, military or both.

EDIT:remember that most people are not likely ever to see a jedi in action (there was only 10000 jedi (IIRC) during TPM) so your typical criminal or merc would only heard rumors and half truths about what jedi can or cannot do.

would you want to take the chance that those stories were true if put into that situation?

[Alex Moon]

A lot of it may be plain arrogance. An organization who members are raised from infancy to be seperate from the masses of the galaxy could easily fall into the habit of looking down on the use of "common" weapons. Remember Obi-Wan's comment in ANH. "Not as random or clumsy as a blaster. A more civilized weapon..."

[FOG3]

As too KOTOR, whats with the personal shields?

We never see any persona shield in the trilogies, except for destroyer droids. I would imaging the empire would love to use such things for stormies, or at least imperial guards. But we never see any.

Was the technology lost? Or was the shield system on destroyes the culmination of the personal shield, and the tech was lost with the downfall of the trade federation?

Personally, I would go with the last option.

Gungan Energy shield tech is lost now is it? Operating mechanisms on those things are the same with the KOTOR guys.

[Knife]

A lot of it may be plain arrogance. An organization who members are raised from infancy to be seperate from the masses of the galaxy could easily fall into the habit of looking down on the use of "common" weapons. Remember Obi-Wan's comment in ANH. "Not as random or clumsy as a blaster. A more civilized weapon..."

Possibly, however look at their training. It's all single combat and dueling. Not one instance in the movies shows the Jedi capable or trained in small unit tactics. All of their combat training involves a single jedi against either a single opponent or a handful.

[Master_Baerne]

A lot of it may be plain arrogance. An organization who members are raised from infancy to be seperate from the masses of the galaxy could easily fall into the habit of looking down on the use of "common" weapons. Remember Obi-Wan's comment in ANH. "Not as random or clumsy as a blaster. A more civilized weapon..."

Possibly, however look at their training. It's all single combat and dueling. Not one instance in the movies shows the Jedi capable or trained in small unit tactics. All of their combat training involves a single jedi against either a single opponent or a handful.

Even when they're "Generals" in the Clone Wars, I don't think there's any sort of Tactics 101 In-Service.

[Ypoknons]

Culture plays a big deal. It takes time for people to adapt, even in war. The Clone War era Jedi had been peacekeepers for a long time, and the light saber had immense psychological effect. The NJO was built by a resistance fighter, with little influence from the old order and during a time of large scale war.

[DarthShady]

When you think about it the jedi could really make good use of a blaster.
For situations like dealing with snipers and medium to long range combat.
But for some mystical reason they rarely do use it, if ever.
I think they prefer the lightsaber because it scares the shit out of your enemies, a lot more than a blaster!

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Gungan Energy shield tech is lost now is it? Operating mechanisms on those things are the same with the KOTOR guys.

Gungan energy shields are too cumbersome to use on the battlefield especially when one is dealing with an enemy with numerical superiority. This is akin to saying a lone hoplite against masses of Persians.

[Lord Revan]

When you think about it the jedi could really make good use of a blaster.
For situations like dealing with snipers and medium to long range combat.
But for some mystical reason they rarely do use it, if ever.

well as I've said before (several times) the Jedi are a specialized police force not a military force.

high power and/or long range weapons are not that common in criminal or other non-military organizations as they're a) hard to hide b) tend to draw the eyes of the goverment to you c) are not that usefull in most most non military situations anyway.

I mean the guards Jabba the Hutt (the head of major criminal organization) has use mainly pistols and melee weapons

there's nothing mystical about it as you vast majority of their missions they would encounter melee to short range combat only, there's no point in training for missions you might encounter very rarely if ever and when you add to that the Jedi are highly traditionalists and somewhat fundies it makes perfect sence

all you have to do is forget the stupid notion that the Jedi Order was somehow a military organization.

[Warsie]

In AOTC I remember that a clonetrooper destroyed a destroyer droid with only one shot. Clearly destroyer droids are lethal against poorly armed enemies as Naboos and Gungans, and I suppose that they were constructed to deal against pirates and clients that don't want pay, but against military troopers with assault rifles and other high-powered weapons they will literally cut in ribbons.

IIRC: that Destroyer Droid had no shielding.

And/or it was the superlaser cannon on the LAAT that did that.

[Warsie]

Even when they're "Generals" in the Clone Wars, I don't think there's any sort of Tactics 101 In-Service.

They are good tacticians, can sense the enemy fleets and armies with te force, can conduct battle meditation to improve the militaries fighting, etc.

Just the Jedi code requires that they get close to see their enemies and fight them more personally (Jedi leading fighter groups; rarely staying on the Venators and Victories but leaving that to Republic generals and admirals)

[Pint0 Xtreme]

Just the Jedi code requires that they get close to see their enemies and fight them more personally (Jedi leading fighter groups; rarely staying on the Venators and Victories but leaving that to Republic generals and admirals)

If that was the case, then Master Yoda certainly broke the Jedi code on Kashyyyk.

[Peptuck]

Just the Jedi code requires that they get close to see their enemies and fight them more personally (Jedi leading fighter groups; rarely staying on the Venators and Victories but leaving that to Republic generals and admirals)

If that was the case, then Master Yoda certainly broke the Jedi code on Kashyyyk.

Why is this any different than normal for Yoda? He did the same thing on Geonosis. Remember, he's the most powerful of all the Jedi Masters and while being a formidable combatant, his long experience and Force powers are far better used hanging at the back and directing his troops. Battle Meditation is a very powerful ability that requires the Jedi to remain away from the frontline. Besides, as the Clone Wars cartoon series has shown, when he needs to be on the front line, he doesn't slack off at all.

[DarthShady]

Why is this any different than normal for Yoda? He did the same thing on Geonosis. Remember, he's the most powerful of all the Jedi Masters and while being a formidable combatant, his long experience and Force powers are far better used hanging at the back and directing his troops. Battle Meditation is a very powerful ability that requires the Jedi to remain away from the frontline. Besides, as the Clone Wars cartoon series has shown, when he needs to be on the front line, he doesn't slack off at all.

He is also one of the smarter jedi,thats how he survived the clone wars.I think Yoda just knew how to pick his battles,and only fights when he has no other choice.

[Master_Baerne]

Even when they're "Generals" in the Clone Wars, I don't think there's any sort of Tactics 101 In-Service.

They are good tacticians, can sense the enemy fleets and armies with te force, can conduct battle meditation to improve the militaries fighting, etc.

Just the Jedi code requires that they get close to see their enemies and fight them more personally (Jedi leading fighter groups; rarely staying on the Venators and Victories but leaving that to Republic generals and admirals)

Precisely. They hold high military rank, but have none of the training necessary to maintain the responsibilities of that rank. At best, their force abilities place them somewhere at the level of a weapons designer; they are useful tools, but shouldn't have the authority to decide ow those tools are used. I realize that's a bad example, but it's the best I could think of.

[Warsie]

If that was the case, then Master Yoda certainly broke the Jedi code on Kashyyyk.

They broke the code when they Allowed Anakin to begin training so late, meh.

Precisely. They hold high military rank, but have none of the training necessary to maintain the responsibilities of that rank.

How so? The Kenobi offensive, though simple was effective and the Rebel Alliance eventually updated it. Not to mention their tactics tended to include consideration for civilians and cities more often; Jedi were less likely to order the bombardment of a city or world when there was a high risk for civilian casualties, which a Republic Admiral or General might not be so lenient with; especially if he's racist or has a disdain for the other side/world (say; the Republic is taking a world, majority non-human that voluntarily seceded and the admiral might do a Sherman; that they willingly left and are traitors; etc). Though the CIS might use that to its' advantage; but some CIS commanders might again be nice

j At best, their force abilities place them somewhere at the level of a weapons designer; they are useful tools, but shouldn't have the authority to decide ow those tools are used. I realize that's a bad example, but it's the best I could think of.

okay...I had something to respond to that; but my comp fucked up and that pissed me off; I forgot it. sorry.

[DogsOfWar]

In the words of Miss Swan, "They're more like guidelines anyway"

[Ryan Thunder]

In the words of Miss Swan, "They're more like guidelines anyway"

That was Barbarossa (or whatever that apple guy's name was.)

[Peptuck]

Precisely. They hold high military rank, but have none of the training necessary to maintain the responsibilities of that rank. At best, their force abilities place them somewhere at the level of a weapons designer; they are useful tools, but shouldn't have the authority to decide ow those tools are used. I realize that's a bad example, but it's the best I could think of.

The closest I would equate them to is something like an Eldar Farseer from 40k: a commander whose skill mostly seems to rely on their combat ability, support powers, and precognition. Note that it seems that every Jedi General also has someone like Commander Cody on hand to deal with the actual troop deployments and tactical maneuvers, and it looks like the Jedi rely on them to take care of gritty military matters while they use the Force to guide them on the strategic level.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Gungan Energy shield tech is lost now is it? Operating mechanisms on those things are the same with the KOTOR guys.

Gungan shields are much bigger than the things KotOR had, the ones from KotOR are strapped onto the biceps.

On the subject of energy shields, even with game mechanics we can get an idea of how much punishment they can take: Your average energy shield can block 40 pts of damage, as a 3d6 weapon a blaster rifles average damage is 10.5. So the el cheapo energy shield can take about three hits and absorb some of a fourth hits' energy before it burns out and it bleeds through, each. A pair should take about seven and burning out on the eighth. Which is in line with the reasoning many of you had already postulated, they burn out much too quickly to be worth the investment.

I think they prefer the lightsaber because it scares the shit out of your enemies, a lot more than a blaster!

The Power of the Jedi Sourcebook would suggest it's simply tradition, part of the Knight Trials is the ability to competently defend yourself, but they may use any weapon they wish or none at all (Jedi Master Faye disregarded physical combat entirely, relying instead on debris and the force to fight her enemies).

[DogsOfWar]

In the words of Miss Swan, "They're more like guidelines anyway"

That was Barbarossa (or whatever that apple guy's name was.)

He said it first, then she quoted him later. I just couldn't remember how he said it

The Power of the Jedi Sourcebook would suggest it's simply tradition, part of the Knight Trials is the ability to competently defend yourself, but they may use any weapon they wish or none at all (Jedi Master Faye disregarded physical combat entirely, relying instead on debris and the force to fight her enemies).

This would seem to be the best explanation as to why the Jedi don't use blasters. Heck, tradition is why only a few Jedi use double-bladed sabers or red lightsabers (they say it's to not appear to be like the Sith, but at that time the Sith had been gone for 1000 years. I don't think anyone else would remember them too well).