Computer troubles getting worse

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2007-09-26 03:38pm

My computer shuts down with more frequency and severity now. And the thing is, I don't think it's a CPU heat problem cause this problem only occurs during the very beginning of the day when I first start up the computer and the CPU's still fairly cool. I get a few shutdowns and restart and then after an uncertain magical point, the machine runs fine, even when I play games and put the CPU under load.

So I think it could be a power supply or motherboard problem. My +12 V rating for my power supply is running dangerously low so I think it could be my power supply failing, but then again it could be more than that or a different problem. I'm not sure.

Post by **Edi** » 2007-09-26 03:47pm

Power supply or motherboard failure seems to be the reason. When my old computer started going, I got a week's worth of random freezes where everything would lock up at some point until it finally quit on me altogether.

I'd advise you to get a new power supply ASAP, since if the power supply burns out, it could fry everything on your computer and if that happens, all of your data goes bye-bye. I've seen that happen.

If it's a motherboard failure, that is not likely to blow up your HD the way a PSU could.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2007-09-26 04:03pm

I'm inclined to suspect power supply as well (everyone: please buy quality power supplies; no, wattage is not a measure of quality) but you might check the capacitors on your motherboard and see if any of them are bulging or leaking.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2007-09-26 04:10pm

Uraniun235 wrote:I'm inclined to suspect power supply as well (everyone: please buy quality power supplies; no, wattage is not a measure of quality) but you might check the capacitors on your motherboard and see if any of them are bulging or leaking.

Are they labelled? I don't suppose you have a picture of them so I know what I'm looking for?

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2007-09-26 04:14pm

I think getting a new power supply would be the best way. I'm planning on visiting a local PC Club to do that, probably around the 400 watt range.

Any suggestions from the list here?

EDIT: I'm trying to just drop by the store and get one right away, so just what kind of brand in particular should I stick to?

EDIT2: Today does seem to be the day. My +12 V gauge is now tipping into the red instead of skirting the yellow. I'm going to go off in an hour, and go to PC Club.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2007-09-26 04:22pm

The Corsair supply should be excellent quality.

Post by **Edi** » 2007-09-26 04:27pm

Antec generally makes quality stuff, so I'd go with that.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-09-26 04:31pm

Shinova wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:I'm inclined to suspect power supply as well (everyone: please buy quality power supplies; no, wattage is not a measure of quality) but you might check the capacitors on your motherboard and see if any of them are bulging or leaking.
Are they labelled? I don't suppose you have a picture of them so I know what I'm looking for?

Capacitors.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2007-09-26 05:00pm

Edi wrote:Antec generally makes quality stuff, so I'd go with that.

I've gathered the impression that Antec has been outsourcing PSU construction if companies which don't make good quality ones. I'm going to recommend Seasonic. You can pick up one that'll power your comp for less than $100.

380 W
330 W

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2007-09-26 05:05pm

They don't have Antec or Seasonic at that PC Club, but they have Thermaltake and Enermax. I've read mostly good things about Enermax, so I'm gonna go with a 485 watt version of that one. (It's also the cheapest one they have of Enermax, -__- , meh a little extra power won't hurt anything except my wallet, but this is an emergency so better do it now soon as possible)

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2007-09-26 05:24pm

Uraniun235 wrote:I'm inclined to suspect power supply as well (everyone: please buy quality power supplies; no, wattage is not a measure of quality) but you might check the capacitors on your motherboard and see if any of them are bulging or leaking.

I'd rather buy two $20 power supplies than one $100 PSU, frankly.

If one eats shit, swap it out. No big deal. In my experience, rare is the power supply failure that does anything besides stop powering the computer.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2007-09-26 08:56pm

Howedar wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:I'm inclined to suspect power supply as well (everyone: please buy quality power supplies; no, wattage is not a measure of quality) but you might check the capacitors on your motherboard and see if any of them are bulging or leaking.
I'd rather buy two $20 power supplies than one $100 PSU, frankly.

If one eats shit, swap it out. No big deal. In my experience, rare is the power supply failure that does anything besides stop powering the computer.

Faulty, or even simply shoddy power supplies can result in unpredictable and intermittant instability, which can be a real bitch to troubleshoot. For example, right now none of us is certain that it's actually his power supply which is causing his problem. Cheap-shit power supplies are also likely to produce much dirtier output power if they get anywhere near a heavy load.

Higher quality power supplies are less prone to failure, more likely to deliver clean electricity under load, and far more efficient. I'm also skeptical of being able to power a computer with a lot of high-end components for a mere $20, considering that even the highest-rated PSU at that range is probably achieving its numbers by ludicrously inflating the wattage by loading up on cheap 3.3V and 5V power while achieving the same 12V output (the really important output, by the way) as a high-quality supply of perhaps as little as 3/5ths the rated wattage.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2007-09-27 02:59am

First, I think I've finally figured out what exactly is plagueing my comp. The power supply, and my main hard drive because almost every time my comp crashed, my primary hard drive refused to get itself detected by the bios until I shut off the power then turned it back on, which just can't be healthy. Plus it's four years old and it's a Western Digital, which I haven't heard great things about.

I've fixed the power supply problem. Their Enermax was sold out, so I got a cheaper 500 watt Cooler Master with dual +12V rails (which was what I was lacking power with). All my power gauges are now in the green, so it looks like I'm safe power supply-wise.

On a note, when I took my old PSU out the motherboard connector was actually burnt at a few of the pins. Yikes.

As for the hard drive, I'm going to run scandisk and defragmenter first. Can't get a brand-new drive yet.

Post by **Edi** » 2007-09-27 09:07am

You want to check your motherboard for other kids of damage if it has been on the receiving end of bad power. Namely, are any of the capacitors bulging out or leaking. Check also the cpoils. Normally they should have a healthy copper wire on them, but if the wire is blackened and the ceramic glazing on the coil is looking flaky and burned, something is producing enough extra heat that the motherboard will go sooner or later.

Mine (on the old dead comp) had those symptoms, but it did survive a lightning strike, primary CPU socket failure and two power supplies burning out on it...

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2007-09-27 11:27am

Uraniun235 wrote:Faulty, or even simply shoddy power supplies can result in unpredictable and intermittant instability, which can be a real bitch to troubleshoot. For example, right now none of us is certain that it's actually his power supply which is causing his problem. Cheap-shit power supplies are also likely to produce much dirtier output power if they get anywhere near a heavy load.

Yes, that's why I said you buy two. Computer starts acting up? Swap out the PSU and see if that makes it better.

Higher quality power supplies are less prone to failure, more likely to deliver clean electricity under load, and far more efficient.

I'd like you to support the last claim.

I'm also skeptical of being able to power a computer with a lot of high-end components for a mere $20, considering that even the highest-rated PSU at that range is probably achieving its numbers by ludicrously inflating the wattage by loading up on cheap 3.3V and 5V power while achieving the same 12V output (the really important output, by the way) as a high-quality supply of perhaps as little as 3/5ths the rated wattage.

Yeah, and the dirty little secret is that, oh my goodness, it doesn't take a kilowatt-range PSU to power a typical desktop computer.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2007-09-27 12:06pm

Howedar wrote:Yes, that's why I said you buy two. Computer starts acting up? Swap out the PSU and see if that makes it better.

True, but that's downtime. Of course, there are quality $20 PSUs (FSP, Sparkle, etc.) and then there's crap (CompUSA Special). A shoddy PSU might also be silently damaging system components.

I'd like you to support the last claim.

Efficiency? I've read some test batteries that indicate that better-built PSUs can be significantly more efficient under load (or idle) than cheaper ones. Now, whether the efficiency is worth the extra cost depends where one lives.

This old review shows a range of efficiency levels.

Yeah, and the dirty little secret is that, oh my goodness, it doesn't take a kilowatt-range PSU to power a typical desktop computer.

Erm, I think he knows that. He certainly wasn't arguing for anything of the sort.

Post by **Edi** » 2007-09-27 01:11pm

On cheap PSUs: The topic came up back when I was working in Ramdata, a computer repair shop here in Helsinki. The guys had been fixing some comp with problems. They needed to switch the PSU on that and there were some Qtec PSUs lying around as well as some others. The Qtec ones didn't work too good, and when they tried the other ones, itturned out they weighed twice as much as the Qtec ones, which were made of really crappy components.

They ran some tests on the power supplies and it turned out that the Qtec suffered something like 80% power loss from nominal values between the wall socket and the motherboard. So yeah, by all means use the $20 PSUs. On your own head be the consequences.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2007-09-27 02:34pm

Edi wrote:They ran some tests on the power supplies and it turned out that the Qtec suffered something like 80% power loss from nominal values between the wall socket and the motherboard. So yeah, by all means use the $20 PSUs. On your own head be the consequences.

Well, that is a bit unfair - there are quality PSUs that are inexpensive (Fortron, for example).