Burmas "reign of fear" and the continuing protests

[Dartzap]

Beeb

US President George W Bush has condemned Burma's "reign of fear" and said Americans were outraged by the country's human rights record.

He was speaking after tens of thousands of monks and other civilians marched through Rangoon in another day of mounting anti-government protests.

They were defying the army's warning to stay off the streets.

In a speech to the UN General Assembly, Mr Bush also announced new sanctions against Burma's military rulers.

Mr Bush said tighter sanctions against Burma's rulers would include visa restrictions on the Burmese leadership and their financial backers.

He also announced an expanded visa ban on those held to be responsible for human rights violations.

Analysts say further sanctions are unlikely to be effective without the support of Burma's main trade partners China and India.

Opening the assembly, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon urged Burma's military rulers to show restraint after more than a week of growing protests.

Earlier, close ally China called for stability and the EU also urged the junta to show restraint and launch a process of real political reform.

Tens of thousands of monks and civilians marched through Rangoon in the latest in more than a week of protests.

Some chanted "we want dialogue" while others simply shouted "democracy, democracy".

Earlier, lorries with loudspeakers warned residents that the protests could be "dispersed by military force".

After the march finished, eyewitnesses told two news agencies they had seen several military trucks moving on Rangoon's streets.

Reuters reported that eight trucks of armed riot police and 11 trucks of troops had moved into the city's centre.

The security forces stayed in the vehicles while a few hundred people looked on, AFP said.

Junta breaks silence

Tens of thousands of monks and supporters earlier marched from Shwedagon pagoda into the commercial centre of Rangoon, where they gathered around Sule pagoda and nearby city hall, witnesses told AFP.

Protesters addressed the crowd outside city hall.

"National reconciliation is very important for us... The monks are standing up for the people," proclaimed poet Aung Way.

One monk told the Associated Press: "People do not tolerate the military government any longer."

The BBC's Jonathan Head in Bangkok says monks - who have been spearheading the protest campaign - have been handing out pictures of Burmese independence hero Aung San, the deceased father of detained opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi.

They are also carrying flags, including some bearing the image of a fighting peacock used by students during the 1988 pro-democracy uprising, witnesses told Reuters.

Students were also openly marching, says the BBC Burmese Service. In earlier marches they had simply formed a chain and clapped.

"Some students are in the middle of exams at this time," one of the students told the BBC. "But they have left their exam rooms and came out onto the streets, joining hands with the public, fighting for the country under the guidance of the monks."

The junta, which violently repressed the 1988 protests killing some 3,000 people, finally broke its silence over the mounting protests late on Monday, saying it was ready to "take action" against the monks.

It has repeated the warning in state media, ordering monks not to get involved in politics and accusing them of allowing themselves to be manipulated by the foreign media.

The protests were triggered by the government's decision to double the price of fuel last month, hitting people hard in the impoverished nation.

I've not seen anyone post anything about this, despite the situation worsening in the last week or so, heh.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Other than myself and the few who actively look for their news on the Net, no American here has heard of this. I sincerely hope the Monks win.

[FSTargetDrone]

Other than myself and the few who actively look for their news on the Net, no American here has heard of this. I sincerely hope the Monks win.

Actually, it has made the evening network news in the US over the last few nights.

But the coverage is nowhere near as intense as that of, say, OJ.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

*shrug* The West always seemed to forget that India, China, and incidentally Singapore to some extent, is bankrolling Myanmar every time they rant about human rights there.

As for whether or not anything there will change, somehow, countries in the region can't care less.

[Pelranius]

The guys in Rangoon (or where ever they moved their capital to now) are certainly bastards, but it is rather rich of Bush to call out the Burmese Tatmadaw on ruling through fear, when he's been milking the War on Terror for all its political brownie points.

[montypython]

The guys in Rangoon (or where ever they moved their capital to now) are certainly bastards, but it is rather rich of Bush to call out the Burmese Tatmadaw on ruling through fear, when he's been milking the War on Terror for all its political brownie points.

Not to mention the assorted 'stuff' being done in Iraq, in addition:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfymuTr05Vw

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The guys in Rangoon (or where ever they moved their capital to now) are certainly bastards, but it is rather rich of Bush to call out the Burmese Tatmadaw on ruling through fear, when he's been milking the War on Terror for all its political brownie points.

Bah. Idiots come in shades and sizes. The trouble is they don't recognise each other and then start fighting over the finer points of their stupidity.

[salm]

*shrug* The West always seemed to forget that India, China, and incidentally Singapore to some extent, is bankrolling Myanmar every time they rant about human rights there.

Actually it´s been getting first page coverage for a couple of days now around here. News from Asia are covered semi decently.

News from Africa are covered really badly, though. It took about a week that i became aware of the current flood disaster that swept half of the continent and killed around 300 people. And that was more by accident when i read the "Panorama" section of "Der Spiegel" (a well respected news source). "Panorama" is pretty much the bullshit section in which they put stuff like Britney Spears comeback debacle and similar crap. And after that they never had anything about it again. Quite sad.

[salm]

They just said on the news that the military has begun shooting at people and that according to the monks five people have been shot dead.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

*shrug* The West always seemed to forget that India, China, and incidentally Singapore to some extent, is bankrolling Myanmar every time they rant about human rights there.

Actually it´s been getting first page coverage for a couple of days now around here. News from Asia are covered semi decently.

News from Africa are covered really badly, though. It took about a week that i became aware of the current flood disaster that swept half of the continent and killed around 300 people. And that was more by accident when i read the "Panorama" section of "Der Spiegel" (a well respected news source). "Panorama" is pretty much the bullshit section in which they put stuff like Britney Spears comeback debacle and similar crap. And after that they never had anything about it again. Quite sad.

Well, while they highlight the abuses of the Government, they fail to highlight the fact that the reason why the generals sit pretty is because people are giving them free money for it. And when they are given free money, and they can pay their troops to keep them happy, why would they care about anything what the world has to say? They are essentially a collective form of Kim Jong Il.

[Sidewinder]

US President George W Bush has condemned Burma's "reign of fear" and said Americans were outraged by the country's human rights record.

He was speaking after tens of thousands of monks and other civilians marched through Rangoon in another day of mounting anti-government protests.

They were defying the army's warning to stay off the streets.

In a speech to the UN General Assembly, Mr Bush also announced new sanctions against Burma's military rulers.

Mr Bush said tighter sanctions against Burma's rulers would include visa restrictions on the Burmese leadership and their financial backers.

He also announced an expanded visa ban on those held to be responsible for human rights violations.

I find it extremely hypocritical for the President to condemn the Burmese government's abuse of its people's civil rights when the US has been ruthlessly abusing the Iraqi people's civil rights.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I find it extremely hypocritical for the President to condemn the Burmese government's abuse of its people's civil rights when the US has been ruthlessly abusing the Iraqi people's civil rights.

As if those sanctions will do anything.

In any case, Bush's hypocrisy is nothing new.

[Eulogy]

US President George W Bush has condemned Burma's "reign of fear" and said Americans were outraged by the country's human rights record.

[ray245]

Sign, only problem is, I doubt the international community will do anything much to help.

The only country that MIGHT interfere maybe china. Mainly due to a larger political ties.

Seriously, most of the serious help americans give is the middle east due to their interest...even the Rwanda genocide is stopped by the french foreign if I remember.

[Sarevok]

Move along nothing to see here. This has been happening in Burma for decades if past is any record nothing is going to come out of it. The junta is far too well entrenched, the population not pissed off enough and other nations are not interested in Burma. It's kind of hillarious in a morbid way. When I was a kid I used to think Suu Ki was quite hot looking. Now she is old and is still stuck in house arrest. She will die there, Burmese people will get some new figurehead and this shit will continue forever.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Move along nothing to see here. This has been happening in Burma for decades if past is any record nothing is going to come out of it. The junta is far too well entrenched, the population not pissed off enough and other nations are not interested in Burma. It's kind of hillarious in a morbid way. When I was a kid I used to think Suu Ki was quite hot looking. Now she is old and is still stuck in house arrest. She will die there, Burmese people will get some new figurehead and this shit will continue forever.

The only possibility for a revolution, is only if the troops don't get paid and join the rebellion.

But hey, the regime has money and plenty of it.

[Gil Hamilton]

On campus today there were alot of student volunteers setting up tables and petitions for spreading information about and condemning the current situation in Burma. They were saying that cut off alot of people outside internet access to prevent information about it from getting out and were turning away journalists trying to get in. Some people are afraid it is about to start going down like last time where the military started shooting protestors and they are even afraid there could be a pogrom from what information is getting out.

Meanwhile, CNN and FOXNews both have breaking news about a little blonde girl in trouble.

[VT-16]

Don't know the credibility of this site, but apparently it reports of army mutinies.

Rangoon: ‘army mutiny’ reported

Troops refuse to fire
on crowdsTroops

Reports from Rangoon suggest soldiers are mutinying. It is unclear the numbers involved. Reports cite heavy shooting in the former Burmese capital.

The organisation Helfen ohne Grenzen (Help without Frontiers) is reporting that "Soldiers from the 66th LID (Light Infantry Divison) have turned their weapons against other government troops and possibly police in North Okkalappa township in Rangoon and are defending the protesters. At present unsure how many soldiers involved."

Soldiers in Mandalay, where unrest has spread to as we reported this morning, are also reported to have refused orders to act against protesters.

Some reports claim that many soldiers remained in their barracks. More recent reports now maintain that soldiers from the 99th LID now being sent there to confront them.

Growing numbers of protestors are gathering in Rangoon, with 10,000 reported at the Traders Hotel and 50,000 at the Thein Gyi market. The police are reported to have turned water cannons against crowds at Sule Pagoda.

Many phone lines into the Burmese state have now been cut, mobile networks have been disabled and the national internet service provider has been taken off-line.

[PainRack]

*shrug* The West always seemed to forget that India, China, and incidentally Singapore to some extent, is bankrolling Myanmar every time they rant about human rights there.

As for whether or not anything there will change, somehow, countries in the region can't care less.

Right.... So, pray tell, what would you have ASEAN do? Invade? The only thing they can do as George Yeo says is issue statemetns and issue tears.

China has a much better capability to manipulate Burma, but it can't do so realistically without sacrificing much of its image in East asia of non-interference. Which is equivalent to sacrificing a queen to save a pawn.

Furthermore, trade with Burma is the only real links Burma has to the real world. Lose that, and you just drive the state further into drug fueled money.

[Sarevok]

Given how Iraq turned out US can not be relied on invading even a rathole. So that counts America World police out. As for ASEAN or China they are less likely to invade than one of Zor's hipothetical RAR's happening for real. But Burma is one of those cases where a foreign invasion could do good. Since the country's state is virtualy unaltered in nearly 50 years outside intervention may be the only realistic way to topple the junta. But that's the utopian in me talking. The current world situation does not favor wars even if for just reasons. If invading a place as barbaric as talibanstan could incite such a shitstorm of protests worldwide there is no hope for rallying public support behind a more ambigious case like Burma. Thinking about Burma is just depressing this is why since there is no hope for these people.

[Shroom Man 777]

As for ASEAN or China they are less likely to invade than one of Zor's hipothetical RAR's happening for real.

Too bad Burma doesn't have oil or anything else of value that powerful nations want. Sucks to be Burma, I guess.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Right.... So, pray tell, what would you have ASEAN do? Invade? The only thing they can do as George Yeo says is issue statemetns and issue tears.

China has a much better capability to manipulate Burma, but it can't do so realistically without sacrificing much of its image in East asia of non-interference. Which is equivalent to sacrificing a queen to save a pawn.

Furthermore, trade with Burma is the only real links Burma has to the real world. Lose that, and you just drive the state further into drug fueled money.

Did I even mention Asean? Which is made of a bunch of bickering children? Why even bring them into the equation?

The only issue here for China, and India, is to have a buffer zone between the two nations. That's about all the two nations really care about.

[[R_H]]

As for ASEAN or China they are less likely to invade than one of Zor's hipothetical RAR's happening for real.

Too bad Burma doesn't have oil or anything else of value that powerful nations want. Sucks to be Burma, I guess.

According to BBC Burma/Myanmar has oil and offshore gas fields.

It is Burma's energy resources - oil and off-shore gas fields - that make it such an attractive partner for Russian, Chinese, Indian and even South Korean firms.

The scramble for Burma's energy resources make it almost impossible to isolate the regime.

Indeed, over time, as US and European ties to Burma have declined, those of China, Russia and India have increased.

China, then, is very much the key player; but Beijing faces conflicting pressures.

It has to match its energy and strategic interests - access to the Indian Ocean for example - with its desire for stability and its concern for its own reputation abroad, especially with the Beijing Olympics fast approaching.

[Broomstick]

Other than myself and the few who actively look for their news on the Net, no American here has heard of this. I sincerely hope the Monks win.

Funny, here in Chicago it's been hitting the front pages of the major newspapers and leading the evening TV news.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Could Thailand or India do anything?