Religion the only thing that seperate us from animals?

[ray245]

I've been thinking...is the thing that seperate us from 'other' animals religion?

Beside the fact that human beings ARE animals...

Sure, we get plenty of animals that make use of their surrounding to make tools, but we don't see animals worshipping any shrine or etc.

Certain laws make use of religion to justify it, and to ensure people will follow. Is religion the thing that makes us unique from all other species?

[salm]

Religion requires a brain that is developed enough to understand the concept of a higher power. Since no other animal has a sufficiently developed brain there are no other creatures that are religious.
Furthermore all species are different from other species. But if you´d have to name one particular thing that stands out in humans it´s of course the brain which unfortunately gives us the possibility to be religious.

[Darth Wong]

I've been thinking...is the thing that seperate us from 'other' animals religion?

Beside the fact that human beings ARE animals...

Sure, we get plenty of animals that make use of their surrounding to make tools, but we don't see animals worshipping any shrine or etc.

Certain laws make use of religion to justify it, and to ensure people will follow. Is religion the thing that makes us unique from all other species?

This is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. You honestly can't think of anything we do that's truly unusual, like mathematics? How do you even know animals don't have religion? We only know that they don't have organized religion.

[PeZook]

Uh...right. It's not the thing we build cities and launch spacecraft to other planets that separates us from other species.

It's religion, people. Everything else is pretty unimpressive, really. I mean, moonwalks? Meh. Lots of dust everywhere, who cares.

Now the Bible, that's snazzy!

[Ghost Rider]

I've been thinking...is the thing that seperate us from 'other' animals religion?

Beside the fact that human beings ARE animals...

Sure, we get plenty of animals that make use of their surrounding to make tools, but we don't see animals worshipping any shrine or etc.

Certain laws make use of religion to justify it, and to ensure people will follow. Is religion the thing that makes us unique from all other species?

Indeed. The only thing that seperates us from the beasts is the belief that there is greater power guiding us.

This belief in a greater power obviously gave us tools and other such pointless trivial nonsense before the damned apes!

Really, are you trying to see how fucking dumb of a topic you can make?

[Hillary]

I've been thinking...

Perhaps you should stick to the things you're good at - leave the thinking to others.

If that's really the only difference you can come up with, I really do despair...

[Plekhanov]

I've been thinking...is the thing that seperate us from 'other' animals religion?

Beside the fact that human beings ARE animals...

Sure, we get plenty of animals that make use of their surrounding to make tools, but we don't see animals worshipping any shrine or etc.

Certain laws make use of religion to justify it, and to ensure people will follow. Is religion the thing that makes us unique from all other species?

Well according to a pretty famous behavioural psychological experiment pigeons have got religion, or at least superstition anyway which is basically the same thing.

Don't think there's any evidence of pigeons doing algebra, making works of art... though. Seems to me your theory needs a little work.

[Psychic_Sandwich]

Well according to a pretty famous behavioural psychological experiment pigeons have got religion, or at least superstition anyway which is basically the same thing.

Really? Have you got a link or something, because that sounds pretty interesting.

[Kanastrous]

I like Ernest Becker's observation, that Man is the animal who knows that he's going to die.

Although the tools and the spacecraft and the nuclear reactors and the works of literature and the gumball machines and legal codes and architecture are kind of giveaways, too.

[General Zod]

I like Ernest Becker's observation, that Man is the animal who knows that he's going to die.

That "observation" seems like a rather massive leap in logic . . .

[ray245]

Even the Greeks in the BC era had a better idea: their philosophers argued that it was the human ability to reason that put us on a different level, and by extension to that, a human who does not use his mind to reason about the universe is no different than any other animal.

Quite the opposite to religion, really.

Isn't organized religion just another outcome of reasoning? If you are thinking in political terms. Reasoning that creating a religion of your own to ensure the population will follow them more err strictly?

I mean...isn't there example of animals being taught to count? If we are using patterns as part of maths, does that mean animals can count? We got animals that know how much distance to travel, when to stop and find the mating ground and etc. Isn't that 'counting' in a way?

Look, I'm not saying that acts like breaking the atom, travelling to the moon isn't impressive as a race or species.

'Biologically' in a way, like when we are just some pre-historic tribe to who have yet to make full use of cultivation and growing crops, where humans may have yet to developed the idea of mathematics...what really separate us from 'normal' animals?

How do you put it...like what makes a difference between a Homo erectus, Homo habilis and a Homo sapiens?

I wanted to say things like culture, agriculture or maybe the ability to shape their environment...but the 'lesser' homids seems to have it as well. In case of agriculture, doesn’t an insect 'farm' in a sense?

Also, in terms of shaping the environment, doesn't ants and birds built nest and shape the 'natural' look? The only main difference is we shaped MORE.

MAYBE I jumped to fast to conclusion, but religion seems to be the only thing that is against nature in a way. Maybe I can't see it, but to me I can't see why would nature give birth to the idea of afterlife and a higher being.

Religion is the thing that will seem 'unnatural' in some way. How do we know that what thing isn't 'built in' for other kind of animals and what is? Mathematics can be 'built in' from a certain point of view.

Well, feel free to say I'm wrong, but can you at the least tell me what separate us from other animals? What makes us have the right to view animals as a 'lower' form of living things?

[salm]

Why should religion be treated differently from any other concept that requires a sufficiently effective brain?

[Plekhanov]

Well according to a pretty famous behavioural psychological experiment pigeons have got religion, or at least superstition anyway which is basically the same thing.

Really? Have you got a link or something, because that sounds pretty interesting.

It was by a guy named Skinner if you google 'Skinner pigeon superstition' or something along those lines I expect you'll find no end of links.

[Kanastrous]

I like Ernest Becker's observation, that Man is the animal who knows that he's going to die.

That "observation" seems like a rather massive leap in logic . . .

I suppose it's true, that no one has conclusively demonstrated that animals don't apprehend their owns deaths.

Or that they do.

I'll ask my cats about it, when I get home.

[Darth Wong]

Isn't organized religion just another outcome of reasoning?

Not of logical reasoning. The great invention of mankind is its ability to do things which run against instinct, against nature, against intuition. Like logic, which does not come naturally at all, but which must be painstakingly nurtured by civilization. That's why mathematics is the purest example of something we have and which the animals definitely do not. The same goes for modern science, which restricts itself to logical methods (as opposed to medieval science, which was half science and half religion).

Unfortunately for your religious bullshit, that distinction does not apply to religion, which comes from emotion and instinct rather than logic.

The fact is that you have no logical argument whatsoever to support your idiotic notion that religion is some kind of Grand Distinction of humans. You only say it because it's a common meme among religious people. I've heard preachers say that bullshit myself, and they support it just as well as they support anything else they say: they just say it's true and the congregation mindlessly nods its heads in agreement.

[General Zod]

Isn't organized religion just another outcome of reasoning? If you are thinking in political terms. Reasoning that creating a religion of your own to ensure the population will follow them more err strictly?

Reasoning leads to the idea that religion is almost certainly wrong.

How do you put it...like what makes a difference between a Homo erectus, Homo habilis and a Homo sapiens?

A few strands of DNA.

MAYBE I jumped to fast to conclusion, but religion seems to be the only thing that is against nature in a way. Maybe I can't see it, but to me I can't see why would nature give birth to the idea of afterlife and a higher being.

Before you start bleating about naturalism, I suggest you demonstrate how humans are "outside" of nature first.

Religion is the thing that will seem 'unnatural' in some way. How do we know that what thing isn't 'built in' for other kind of animals and what is? Mathematics can be 'built in' from a certain point of view.

Many forms of mathematics didn't even exist until certain people managed to create them in order to more properly describe the physical universe.

Well, feel free to say I'm wrong, but can you at the least tell me what separate us from other animals? What makes us have the right to view animals as a 'lower' form of living things?

The ability to use tools perhaps. Honestly, only idiot fundamentalists tend to assume that humans are anything more than incredibly smart animals who have some very advanced tools.

[Rye]

Chimps have a ritualised pre-culture, likely along the same lines as religion to them, and as Plehkanov pointed out, you can make pigeons and other animals act in a superstitious manner if you give them false positives, so no, religion isn't likely the only thing to separate us. Domesticated fire is probably the big one.

[Darth Wong]

When someone says that mathematics might be instinctive but religion can't be, you know you're dealing with a complete imbecile.

[Lagmonster]

The great invention of mankind is its ability to do things which run against instinct, against nature, against intuition. Like logic, which does not come naturally at all, but which must be painstakingly nurtured by civilization. That's why mathematics is the purest example of something we have and which the animals definitely do not.

Before someone else comes prancing in here with a googled response to the above, yes, we have determined that many animals can count and perform skills that require math to solve (most people cite Keith Devlin's "the Math Instinct" work on this one, or Jessica Cantlon, or Tim Pennings). And yes, there is debate as to whether monkeys can use numbers to differentiate between different stimuli even if they could otherwise use shapes or colours. But that's not the same as logical thinking, and I wanted to head off any potential glory seekers at the pass.

[DarthShady]

Religion only exists because people fear death and the unknown.
What differences us from animals is Brain power.Something you clearly lack.

[Mayabird]

The chimpanzees of Gombe have been seen doing ritualistic waterfall displays and rain dances which have been described as expressions of awe. Jane Goodall believes that these displays are precursors of religious feeling that are more developed (your commentary here) in humans.

[Darth Wong]

The great invention of mankind is its ability to do things which run against instinct, against nature, against intuition. Like logic, which does not come naturally at all, but which must be painstakingly nurtured by civilization. That's why mathematics is the purest example of something we have and which the animals definitely do not.

Before someone else comes prancing in here with a googled response to the above, yes, we have determined that many animals can count and perform skills that require math to solve (most people cite Keith Devlin's "the Math Instinct" work on this one, or Jessica Cantlon, or Tim Pennings). And yes, there is debate as to whether monkeys can use numbers to differentiate between different stimuli even if they could otherwise use shapes or colours. But that's not the same as logical thinking, and I wanted to head off any potential glory seekers at the pass.

Indeed, some people think that counting is mathematics, usually because they never actually studied real math in school. I often find that there's a disconnect between what educated people think of as "mathematics" and what morons think of as "mathematics". And then you get the kind of people who say stupid things like "baseball requires advanced physics and mathematics"; you can model the physics of a baseball with mathematics but that doesn't mean you actually need to understand that in order to play the game.

[Resinence]

Religion only exists because people fear death and the unknown.
What differences us from animals is Brain power.Something you clearly lack.

Ahh, violent like a chimpanzee, intelligent but ignorant at the same time. What a wonderful race aliens would think we are

I can't believe how often this stupid thought comes up though, religion appeals directly to baser instincts and stifles free thought, yet it's what makes humans better than animals? It would be hilarious if it wasn't believed by so many people.

[ray245]

Isn't organized religion just another outcome of reasoning?

Unfortunately for your religious bullshit, that distinction does not apply to religion, which comes from emotion and instinct rather than logic.

The fact is that you have no logical argument whatsoever to support your idiotic notion that religion is some kind of Grand Distinction of humans. You only say it because it's a common meme among religious people. I've heard preachers say that bullshit myself, and they support it just as well as they support anything else they say: they just say it's true and the congregation mindlessly nods its heads in agreement.

Religion's view on humans is EXACTLY the main reason why I would ask this question in the first place. Why would nature 'evolve' a species that would create a religion in the first place? This is alot more illogical in nature. Emotions? Which is in turn caused by the nature as need for species to survive...

Screw it, this is just going to get more and more confusing by the second.

Although I think my argument is more philosophical in nature than religious.

Just one question Wong, does nature 'built' civilization in a way? Isn't building a civilization an natural instinct for us humans to survive in harsh enviroment in the first place?

Is it out of pure luck that Humans get to built a civilization? Or is 'evolving' a species capable of building a civilization a pre-destined event?

The ability to use tools perhaps. Honestly, only idiot fundamentalists tend to assume that humans are anything more than incredibly smart animals who have some very advanced tools.

I have never denied the fact that humans are animals in the first place. From your point of view, what I am trying to ask will be...what really seperate us from the normal 'smart' animals like apes and a super smart humans? I thought apes also use some tools? As well as the earlier homids?

Even Ants use tools in a way...which make the classification of Humans being different from ants harder.


When I am trying to look for somthing that is 'unique' between us and other species that has existed, I'm looking at the difference between a 'helpless' animal like a dinosaurs when the asteroid is going to come down on them and a human who are at the least able to try and think of way to stop it.

After looking at all the post, I feel that maybe civilization is the thing that seperate us from other species. On the other hand,the term civilization is rather relative...

[Darth Wong]

Religion's view on humans is EXACTLY the main reason why I would ask this question in the first place. Why would nature 'evolve' a species that would create a religion in the first place? This is alot more illogical in nature. Emotions? Which is in turn caused by the nature as need for species to survive...

They say there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. Thank you for disproving this axiom.

What the fuck makes you think that religion is a specific evolved trait, rather than a natural outcome of the irrational nature of a biological brain?

Just one question Wong, does nature 'built' civilization in a way? Isn't building a civilization an natural instinct for us humans to survive in harsh enviroment in the first place?

You're talking about our pack-animal tribal instinct. Civilization is simply that same trait, but on a much larger scale made possible by our greater intelligence. The way we vote is still heavily influenced by our pack-animal nature, which is why we often vote so stupidly.

When I am trying to look for somthing that is 'unique' between us and other species that has existed, I'm looking at the difference between a 'helpless' animal like a dinosaurs when the asteroid is going to come down on them and a human who are at the least able to try and think of way to stop it.

That answer has been provided several times in this thread already. You choose to ignore it because you refuse to acknowledge the superiority of the scientific methodology.