Religion the only thing that seperate us from animals?

[Darth Wong]

Okay. I've never thought of dominance hierarchies as 'culture,' but I suppose one could define them as such.

Our dominance hierarchy is much more complicated, but it's still a dominance hierarchy and our culture is still dominated by it.

[Kanastrous]

Okay. I've never thought of dominance hierarchies as 'culture,' but I suppose one could define them as such.

Our dominance hierarchy is much more complicated, but it's still a dominance hierarchy and our culture is still dominated by it.

Robert Anton Wilson had a lot of fun reducing human social and political behaviors to their most primitive primate origins. I'm not suggesting that I disagree.

[SirNitram]

I can't think of a way to test the proposition that they're projecting a religious aura onto us, rather than simply bonding with us and adopting us in such a way as to take advantage of what we have to offer them.

If my cats think that I am God, then they are for-sure a pair of fucking apostate sinners. What part of Thou shalt stay off the couch do they not understand?

All of it, it's in English.

I'm simply noting the behaviors some domesticated animals show has an extraordinary similarity to those of religious humans, particularly very primitive religions. Sacrifice your kills to the Big Snake In The Sky, etc.

[Kanastrous]

I noticed that English wasn't penetrating, pretty early on.

Now I enforce commandments via my Cosmic Holy Spray Bottle.

[Lord of the Abyss]

I don't normally think of animals (aside from us, and some other primates) as having culture.

Would you give some examples?

Well, many of the examples would be primates, as they are both social and smart for animals. Such as one troop of chimps washing their food or beating their females with sticks, and another not doing so. For a non-primate example, one reason that you kill animals that hunt humans, besides the obvious, is the risk that they will teach their young to do the same. "Humans are good to hunt" is a cultural trait, in this case; learned, not instinct, and passed from one animal to another.

[Rye]

I can't think of a way to test the proposition that they're projecting a religious aura onto us, rather than simply bonding with us and adopting us in such a way as to take advantage of what we have to offer them.

If my cats think that I am God, then they are for-sure a pair of fucking apostate sinners. What part of Thou shalt stay off the couch do they not understand?

All of it, it's in English.

I'm simply noting the behaviors some domesticated animals show has an extraordinary similarity to those of religious humans, particularly very primitive religions. Sacrifice your kills to the Big Snake In The Sky, etc.

I think that's more religion co-opting existing notions of balance, value and worth, as well as social interaction, rather than an indication we appear as gods to the cats. If you grew up your whole life with an actual god providing for you, you'd feel it was a normal state of affairs and it wouldn't be any more religious to appreciate that real deity over a real parent. I think it's more familial instinct between humans and pets, both ways, religious feelings are a bit more than that, though they are related.

[ray245]

Speaking of our natural trait of hunting...wouldn't evolution make us well less adapted for it as time goes by?

We have been evolved as a species meant to hunt, but sometime ago, we started to cultivate and make use of farming as a source of food.

Given that, does it mean the later generation like during our time will have a harder time to hunt as compared to our ancestors?

Another question will be, do we 'developed' the ability or the knowledge to farm first in africa or do we developed them after humanity starts to spread out?

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Speaking of our natural trait of hunting...wouldn't evolution make us well less adapted for it as time goes by?

We have been evolved as a species meant to hunt, but sometime ago, we started to cultivate and make use of farming as a source of food.

Given that, does it mean the later generation like during our time will have a harder time to hunt as compared to our ancestors?

Another question will be, do we 'developed' the ability or the knowledge to farm first in africa or do we developed them after humanity starts to spread out?

Here's an idea: read Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond. Or I could just bludgeon you over the head repeatedly with the book (it's nice and heavy) until either knowledge osmosis or blunt-force trauma take effect.

[ray245]

Speaking of our natural trait of hunting...wouldn't evolution make us well less adapted for it as time goes by?

We have been evolved as a species meant to hunt, but sometime ago, we started to cultivate and make use of farming as a source of food.

Given that, does it mean the later generation like during our time will have a harder time to hunt as compared to our ancestors?

Another question will be, do we 'developed' the ability or the knowledge to farm first in africa or do we developed them after humanity starts to spread out?

Here's an idea: read Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond. Or I could just bludgeon you over the head repeatedly with the book (it's nice and heavy) until either knowledge osmosis or blunt-force trauma take effect.

I thought osmosis only occurs with water?

[Kanastrous]

Your brain is mostly water.

Mine, too.

[Patrick Degan]

Speaking of our natural trait of hunting...wouldn't evolution make us well less adapted for it as time goes by?

We have been evolved as a species meant to hunt, but sometime ago, we started to cultivate and make use of farming as a source of food.

Given that, does it mean the later generation like during our time will have a harder time to hunt as compared to our ancestors?

Hmm, what a toughie. After all, our ancestors had instinct. All we have are our jeeps (or Land-Rovers), helicopters, automatic rifles able to hit a target at much longer ranges than an atlatl, spear, or arrow —and mounted with precision telescopic sights to boot.

[ray245]

Your brain is mostly water.

Mine, too.

Knowledge isn't water...

[Darth Wong]

Your brain is mostly water.

Mine, too.

Knowledge isn't water...

Oh wow, you have triumphantly proven that Einy's joke was not a literal scientific description of human cognitive processes! Why don't you pat yourself on the back, Mr. Pedant?

[ray245]

Your brain is mostly water.

Mine, too.

Knowledge isn't water...

Oh wow, you have triumphantly proven that Einy's joke was not a literal scientific description of human cognitive processes! Why don't you pat yourself on the back, Mr. Pedant?

Oh please. I know he is joking. What? Can't I act dumb about it?

[Winston Blake]

We have been evolved as a species meant to hunt, but sometime ago, we started to cultivate and make use of farming as a source of food.

The next time you're in front of a mirror, look at your teeth. We're not 'meant to hunt'. We're omnivores.

[mr friendly guy]

Religion's view on humans is EXACTLY the main reason why I would ask this question in the first place. Why would nature 'evolve' a species that would create a religion in the first place?

Personally I think religion is an evolutionary spandrel. I know Stephen Gould who postulated the idea of the spandrel also thinks religion fits into this criteria. Some time ago I started a thread suggesting this thing in SLAM. I suggest you look it up.

[Ariphaos]

Things Humans can do that no animal can

1. Walk a hundred miles in a day
2. Develop new language constructs (though it's rumored Dolphins might)
3. Perform any form of math more complex than addition / subtraction

Animals, on the other hand, do have the capacity to be superstitious, seeing patterns that aren't there, and so on.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Knowledge isn't water...

Oh wow, you have triumphantly proven that Einy's joke was not a literal scientific description of human cognitive processes! Why don't you pat yourself on the back, Mr. Pedant?

Oh please. I know he is joking. What? Can't I act dumb about it?

It helps to not be so accidentally convincing.

[ray245]

Oh wow, you have triumphantly proven that Einy's joke was not a literal scientific description of human cognitive processes! Why don't you pat yourself on the back, Mr. Pedant?

Oh please. I know he is joking. What? Can't I act dumb about it?

It helps to not be so accidentally convincing.

I thought that it is called good acting?

[Eris]

I thought osmosis only occurs with water?

Counter-nitpick, since I'm feeling cranky. In the strictest sense, osmosis is the process by which solvents move across a semi-permeable membrane dependent on the concentration of solutes on each side. The fact that it's water in all real-world applications I can think of, which is admittedly quite a few, is merely a happy coincidence of the rather remarkable properties of water, not a comment on the principles behind the process itself.

In theory I can't see why you couldn't have osmosis with the right membranes, a dichloromethane solvent, and some random massive chemicals, like stearic acid. You never will in practice, but the principle remains sound.

[mr friendly guy]

We have been evolved as a species meant to hunt, but sometime ago, we started to cultivate and make use of farming as a source of food.

The next time you're in front of a mirror, look at your teeth. We're not 'meant to hunt'. We're omnivores.

Actually IIRC once we started to get bigger brains, we weren't getting enough nutritional supplements from plants (until the advent of agriculture), so we needed to hunt. Its just that we dealt with that need by inventing tools rather than evolving natural ones etc.

[Lord of the Abyss]

We have been evolved as a species meant to hunt, but sometime ago, we started to cultivate and make use of farming as a source of food.

The next time you're in front of a mirror, look at your teeth. We're not 'meant to hunt'. We're omnivores.

Actually IIRC once we started to get bigger brains, we weren't getting enough nutritional supplements from plants (until the advent of agriculture), so we needed to hunt.

IIRC, we appear to have been scavengers, orginally.

[Mayabird]

The next time you're in front of a mirror, look at your teeth. We're not 'meant to hunt'. We're omnivores.

Actually IIRC once we started to get bigger brains, we weren't getting enough nutritional supplements from plants (until the advent of agriculture), so we needed to hunt.

IIRC, we appear to have been scavengers, orginally.

That is one hypothesis I've seen for the advent of stone tools. Our hominid ancestors mostly ate plants, but with even a primitive shaped rock, they could smash open bones for marrow, which is a great source of calories and protein, but beyond their reach without tools. With more calories and protein, their brains could get bigger and more effectively use tools, bringing in more and more calories and protein, and so on and on.

[SilverWingedSeraph]

I heard or read somewhere once, that the thing that seperates Humans from animals is our capability of abstract thought. Creating things with our minds, trying (and sometimes failing) to explain things that we don't understand, lying, and being able to elaborate on that lie to make it seem like it might be true.

The imagination, our ability to ask "what-if?" is probably the biggest difference between humans and animals. Although, this is just my opinion, and could very well be wrong, and I encourage you to tell me so if you disagree.

[Kanastrous]

I think that animals at play may sometimes be displaying imagination.

When my cat rolls over on his back and rakes at my hand with his hind claws, he might be imagining that he's really disemboweling something...

...or not.