Religion the only thing that seperate us from animals?

SilverWingedSeraph · Post by **SilverWingedSeraph** » 2007-10-02 04:53pm

That's really the most simplistic form of imagination. That's just playing, and pretending that something is actually something else. But you do make a valid point there.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-10-02 05:04pm

SilverWingedSeraph wrote:That's really the most simplistic form of imagination. That's just playing, and pretending that something is actually something else. But you do make a valid point there.

Since everything else humans have is really just the result of evolutionary refinement, why should imagination be any different?

SilverWingedSeraph · Post by **SilverWingedSeraph** » 2007-10-02 05:09pm

General Zod wrote:
SilverWingedSeraph wrote:Since everything else humans have is really just the result of evolutionary refinement, why should imagination be any different?

It shouldn't. I have no doubt that our ability for abstract though is an evolutionary trait. I'm just saying that I think it's the major trait that separates us from other animals, because due to my knowledge, no other living creature has evolved their ability for abstract thought to the extent that humans have.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-10-02 05:13pm

SilverWingedSeraph wrote: It shouldn't. I have no doubt that our ability for abstract though is an evolutionary trait. I'm just saying that I think it's the major trait that separates us from other animals, because due to my knowledge, no other living creature has evolved their ability for abstract thought to the extent that humans have.

Who cares about extent as long as the same basic capacity is demonstrated? Dolphins come to mind as animals being capable of abstract thought, for example.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-10-02 05:18pm

Even if an animal had the capacity for abstract thought, we wouldn't know.

The biggest thing that distinguishes us from the other animals is that we found a way to preserve the thoughts of our most brilliant members. Let's be realistic about this: if we were limited to the thoughts of average people, how advanced would our civilization be by now? We'd be lucky to have advanced beyond hunter-gatherer societies.

All throughout history, it has been a tiny fraction of humans who have driven the entire species forward, by coming up with brilliant ideas that would not have occurred to the average person. Someone had to invent the wheel. Someone had to invent agriculture. Someone had to invent irrigation. Someone had to figure out how to smelt metals. Someone had to invent gunpowder, or the microchip.

Our particular gift was the ability to spread those ideas among the people who weren't smart enough to think of them on their own, preserve those ideas, and pass them on to future generations.

There could very well be an occasional dolphin who is born brilliant, but it doesn't do the other dolphins any good, because his abilities will die with him.

SilverWingedSeraph · Post by **SilverWingedSeraph** » 2007-10-02 05:35pm

General Zod wrote:Who cares about extent as long as the same basic capacity is demonstrated? Dolphins come to mind as animals being capable of abstract thought, for example.

Well, by that reasoning, the only difference between Humans and other mammals is that we have evolved different traits to a greater extent than they have, and vice-versa. So, nothing really makes us that special.

Darth Wong wrote:Even if an animal had the capacity for abstract thought, we wouldn't know.

The biggest thing that distinguishes us from the other animals is that we found a way to preserve the thoughts of our most brilliant members. Let's be realistic about this: if we were limited to the thoughts of average people, how advanced would our civilization be by now? We'd be lucky to have advanced beyond hunter-gatherer societies.

All throughout history, it has been a tiny fraction of humans who have driven the entire species forward, by coming up with brilliant ideas that would not have occurred to the average person. Someone had to invent the wheel. Someone had to invent agriculture. Someone had to invent irrigation. Someone had to figure out how to smelt metals. Someone had to invent gunpowder, or the microchip.

Our particular gift was the ability to spread those ideas among the people who weren't smart enough to think of them on their own, preserve those ideas, and pass them on to future generations.

There could very well be an occasional dolphin who is born brilliant, but it doesn't do the other dolphins any good, because his abilities will die with him.

So, the biggest difference between us and other animals is that we found a way to preserve our thoughts and observations through writing and drawing, and I agree with that completely. And we couldn't have figured out how to do that without abstract thought... and opposable thumbs... would I be correct there, or did I miss something? It's quite possible I did.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-10-02 05:37pm

SilverWingedSeraph wrote: Well, by that reasoning, the only difference between Humans and other mammals is that we have evolved different traits to a greater extent than they have, and vice-versa. So, nothing really makes us that special.

That was pretty much my point.

SilverWingedSeraph · Post by **SilverWingedSeraph** » 2007-10-02 05:40pm

General Zod wrote:
SilverWingedSeraph wrote: Well, by that reasoning, the only difference between Humans and other mammals is that we have evolved different traits to a greater extent than they have, and vice-versa. So, nothing really makes us that special.
That was pretty much my point.

I can agree with that.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-10-02 05:44pm

SilverWingedSeraph wrote:So, the biggest difference between us and other animals is that we found a way to preserve our thoughts and observations through writing and drawing, and I agree with that completely. And we couldn't have figured out how to do that without abstract thought... and opposable thumbs... would I be correct there, or did I miss something? It's quite possible I did.

Actually, human civilization can become quite advanced even without writing, using only oral traditions. But of course, it will hit a limit because of its inability to thoroughly explore math and science without formalized written communication.

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2007-10-02 05:44pm

Regarding Kanastrous' cats disobeying his/her godliness:

Kanastrous wrote:I noticed that English wasn't penetrating, pretty early on.

Now I enforce commandments via my Cosmic Holy Spray Bottle.

Clearly you need to construct a CatBot with a built-in English-to-Meow translator, which will follow them all the time and preach at them. Just don't leave any nails or planks of wood lying around.

Kanastrous · Post by **Kanastrous** » 2007-10-02 06:09pm

Just for yucks, it would be fun to try and establish the First Church of You're Nothing Special, Asshole.

Kanastrous · Post by **Kanastrous** » 2007-10-02 06:10pm

Winston Blake wrote:Regarding Kanastrous' cats disobeying his/her godliness:
Kanastrous wrote:I noticed that English wasn't penetrating, pretty early on.

Now I enforce commandments via my Cosmic Holy Spray Bottle.
Clearly you need to construct a CatBot with a built-in English-to-Meow translator, which will follow them all the time and preach at them. Just don't leave any nails or planks of wood lying around.

Because someone will build a bigger plank with a nail in it, and then a bigger plank with a nail in it, and...mwuhahahahaha!

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2007-10-02 06:16pm

Kanastrous wrote:
Winston Blake wrote:Clearly you need to construct a CatBot with a built-in English-to-Meow translator, which will follow them all the time and preach at them. Just don't leave any nails or planks of wood lying around.
Because someone will build a bigger plank with a nail in it, and then a bigger plank with a nail in it, and...mwuhahahahaha!

Actually the idea was that you would come home from work one day to find your only begotten CatBot nailed to a cross, it's last meows recorded in it's memory as being 'Father, why have you forsaken me?'.