Imperial InfantryMan's uplifting Primer analysis thread

[NecronLord]

Nor do I contest that Inquisitor's combat stats aren't great. For a real laugh, go look up how the Necrontyr Gauss Flayer is beaten with a nerf bat.

To be fair, it's concievable that if one somehow got such a weapon, it would be damaged in some way to start with, and using an unaccustomed form of power - on the old school 'crons, they had leads going into their owner, suggesting they need external power. And even on the new ones, there's no visible means of recharging. A guass flayer used by most Inquisitor characters could well be bust up terribly enough for those to be representative stats.

[white_rabbit]

I still see no reason to believe that the plasma weapons in Inquisitor are abnormally powerful.

To be clear I agree that their are going to be variations on plasma weapon performance and weakness based on constructions. Variations on fluff performance are to be expected as the weapon's table top performance frequently changes from edition to edition. The Inquisition version merelly rationalizes the changes by incorporating all the features in one weapon.

Nor do I contest that Inquisitor's combat stats aren't great. For a real laugh, go look up how the Necrontyr Gauss Flayer is beaten with a nerf bat. I just see no reason to think that plasma weapons are supposed to anything other than generic examples of their type and that they have just been a little neutered in the name of game balance.

I'd agree completely with the plasma weapons comment, even in necromunda fiction a plasma rifle is capable of reducing a Spyrer suited bounty hunter to a puddle, Inquisitor is designed so your characters are very tough to one-shot.

After armour, hit location and special abilities, they can soak a lot of damage, if anything weaponry is heavily nerfed for Inquisitor, in both capability and general firepower, not buffed.

The Inquisitor armaments table isn't "cool shit that only Inquisitors use", as Eisenhorn demonstrates, Inquisitors occasionally end up using rather shitty weapons in the course of their activities, and just because Inquisitor Long Dong has a Thermal lance, it doesn't mean Cradgenut the Scrabie, his cheerful mutant sidekick, gets to use anything other than his scavenged stubber or tox bombs.

Plasma weapons have even more variation in observed effects than lasweapons proportionally I'd say, from glowing energy ball guns and beam weapons to standard scifi energy guns, and most horrifically of all, superheated liquid super soakers.

[andrewgpaul]

...Inquisitor is designed so your characters are very tough to one-shot.

Prime example; given average die rolls, a naked Space Marine hit in the head by a lascannon shot will suffer ... a Light Wound

Going back to plasma weapons, Connor, I may have been misunderstanding you. It seemed like you were taking the change in plasma weapon performance from 2nd to 3rd ed. 40K (recharge time to overheating) as reflecting a technological change in plasma weapon design.

[Connor MacLeod]

I still see no reason to believe that the plasma weapons in Inquisitor are abnormally powerful.

That said I don't suppose its neccesarily for them to be "extremely powerful" - just "more powerful" by an unknown degree. The other features like "instability, ammo capacity and refire rate" arne't precisely quantified, after all.

I already admitted that its not neccessary to be "extremely powerful", just "more powerful" by an unknown degree. On the other hand, they might just be more compact, or some other variation that requires a different set of tradeoffs. The stats just won't reflect those things (any more than they reflect things like lasgun ROF adjustment or variable charge settings or things like that.)

[Imperial Overlord]

I already admitted that its not neccessary to be "extremely powerful", just "more powerful" by an unknown degree. On the other hand, they might just be more compact, or some other variation that requires a different set of tradeoffs. The stats just won't reflect those things (any more than they reflect things like lasgun ROF adjustment or variable charge settings or things like that.)

Actually, some of the lasguns stats do. They give stats for three different standard pattern Lasguns. The Mars Pattern, which has long range, the Necromundia Pattern, which has variable rate of fire, and the Triplex Pattern which has adjustable charge settings.

Again, I don't see any need to rationalize the Inquisitor plasma weapons as abnormal. Its generic, game balanced nerfed stats, to a broad class of weapons. What can be reasonaly derived from them is that they can malfunction and sometimes those malfunctions can be dangerous to the user, they commonly have recharge times in between high powered shots or volleys of low powerd shots, they have a limited ammo supply, and they do lots of damage. Those characteristics are found in the fluff and in various rules editions. There's really no need to try to rationalize the performance in any particular direction as the weapons are generic and the system's mechanics are less than spectacular. It simply serves to support other sources on plasma weapon performance.

[Connor MacLeod]

I didn't call them abnormal, I said they're somewhere between what they were back in 1st and 2nd edition (the "safe" plasma guns) and 3rd edition (the fast firing but less reliable ones) - they're probably of different make/design/manufacture than those other ones (and then there are still probably others, depending on the exact variation of characteristics like refire rate, output, settings, ammo capacity and whatnot.)

[white_rabbit]

I didn't call them abnormal, I said they're somewhere between what they were back in 1st and 2nd edition (the "safe" plasma guns) and 3rd edition (the fast firing but less reliable ones) - they're probably of different make/design/manufacture than those other ones (and then there are still probably others, depending on the exact variation of characteristics like refire rate, output, settings, ammo capacity and whatnot.)

Man, it is entirely possible that these plasma weapons are meant to represent the "average" plasma gun, in fact its really likely. Its simply pointless to try and assign some possible factor to account for the differences in rules, because its crossing twixt several different systems and eras of background.

All that you can say with certainty is that they represent the most common, retconned or otherwise, Imperial plasma guns in a general fashion.

i.e. More damage than XXX, but shorter range, less ammo, with X recharge time and Y chance of a malfunction. Its an approximation of where plasma weaponry sits in the capability chart of 40k weaponry, but nerfed heavily, like all the really nasty guns, so you can't vapourise Inquisitor Long Dong with a single round of firing.

To be fair, it's concievable that if one somehow got such a weapon, it would be damaged in some way to start with, and using an unaccustomed form of power - on the old school 'crons, they had leads going into their owner, suggesting they need external power. And even on the new ones, there's no visible means of recharging. A guass flayer used by most Inquisitor characters could well be bust up terribly enough for those to be representative stats.

The one time I read of a gauss flayer in use by an Ad-Mech bloke, it was a one shot/burst weapon, but capable of disintigrating an astropath.

Its pretty likely as you say that without a compatible power technology, its difficult to have a 'flayer function properly.

[Ender]

I have acquired the uplifting primer. I sure hope no one asks me to violate copyright and send it to them