Quantify the Zann Consortium

[Battlehymn Republic]

I know that Empire at War: Forces of Corruption was rather poorly received, but to those who have actually played the game: consider the in-game fluff, and then the in-game mechanics. Just how powerful is Zann's organization? Is it really >= Black Sun levels, or was it just very rich and invasive and capable of a really lucky heist? Is it really as wankfully powerful to challenge both the Rebel Alliance and the Empire, or was it just potent in a few sectors as a local power?

It just seems as if most of the criticisms were made before anyone actually played the game.

[Darth Ruinus]

In game, they were kinda unbalanced. Since I never played story mode (WTF? A SW strategy game with no Empire or Rebel story mode?) I wouldnt know about that.

However, Wookie says "During the course of the war, it amassed considerable power and wealth, even becoming a threat to both the Empire and Rebellion. "

However, come on, a fucking criminal syndicate threatening the fucking EMPIRE?

[Ryan Thunder]

In game, they were kinda unbalanced. Since I never played story mode (WTF? A SW strategy game with no Empire or Rebel story mode?) I wouldnt know about that.

However, Wookie says "During the course of the war, it amassed considerable power and wealth, even becoming a threat to both the Empire and Rebellion. "

However, come on, a fucking criminal syndicate threatening the fucking EMPIRE?

Pretty much sums things up rather nicely.

Oh well, I thought that whole game was junk anyways.

Where did this brain bug that "the Rebellion does it better" come from, anyways? Classically, their troopers have been totally ineffective against Imperial forces.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Let's just say, that Empire at War, is among the greatest travesties in realism Star Wars games wise.

[Teleros]

However, Wookie says "During the course of the war, it amassed considerable power and wealth, even becoming a threat to both the Empire and Rebellion. "

However, come on, a fucking criminal syndicate threatening the fucking EMPIRE?

I suppose you could say they forgot to mention it was a "threat to the Empire...'s local traders" .

[Zwinmar]

I found it exagerated at best, rediculous at worst.

It is a game, as such each faction needs a chance to win, otherwise who would buy it?

[Darth Fanboy]

I found it exagerated at best, rediculous at worst.

It is a game, as such each faction needs a chance to win, otherwise who would buy it?

That is dismissable as game mechianics, and is fine, but the problem is when the bullshit starts making its way into the Canon.

One could say "threat to the Empire" is a pretty vague term. One could even say that the threat posed by the Zann Consortium was significan tenough to mention but not enough to matter in the overall scale of the conflict. Sort of how an Al Qaeda terrorist is a threat to the United States or China, but said guy isn't going to overthrow or conquer either of those nations.

Then it hits you...they give Zann a fucking Eclipse SSD. Of which there were only two, both destroyed in DE, now suddenly there is another. And this guy has the crew to operate it apparently.

Yeah this is almost criminally wank

[Stark]

Is there any reason why they used a new made-up bullshit organisation and not the already-known powerful factions in the galaxy? Turns out some jokers nobody ever heard of stole the second most powerful ship in space!

[Zwinmar]

As a game I think that it should be rated as non-canon, as with all games. The ending, after all, is made by the player. For it to be canon there can be no alternate endings.

Would it be considered cannon that cheat codes can be used in game? after all in EaW you can name your own ship if you go into the files.

Of course, I'm not the one in charge of stateing what is canon and what is not.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Then it hits you...they give Zann a fucking Eclipse SSD. Of which there were only two, both destroyed in DE, now suddenly there is another. And this guy has the crew to operate it apparently.

Actually I'm pretty sure the one he tried to jack was the unfinished Eclipse, as he's forced to abandon it because he doesn't have the crew to man or complete the ship and just wanted the information on Palpatines hidden treasuries.

[Stark]

Isn't it a unit usable ingame, though?

[Darth Fanboy]

Then it hits you...they give Zann a fucking Eclipse SSD. Of which there were only two, both destroyed in DE, now suddenly there is another. And this guy has the crew to operate it apparently.

Actually I'm pretty sure the one he tried to jack was the unfinished Eclipse, as he's forced to abandon it because he doesn't have the crew to man or complete the ship and just wanted the information on Palpatines hidden treasuries.

I believe the explanation is that Zann abandons it because he thinks it will draw too much attention I don;t recall the ability to crew it being a factor but I admit I could be wrong.

But that doesn't matter, he is still able to take the thing. The fact that his consortium is big enough to consider anything like that is stupid.

Black Sun, the predominant criminal Organization in Star Wars, is hyped as the most powerful organization of its kind in the SW Galaxy. Yet in MedStar II a Black Sun agent clearly states that even Black Suns entire military wouldn't be able to match the entire Republic force amassed at Drongar. One battle being fought out of many (don;t care what you say Karen Travesty) and it was still more than enough to smackdown Black Sun.

EDIT:

I thought Eclipse was supposed to be playable, but I don't see it in a unit list anywhere. Guess it was just a part of the plot, it's what I get for not playing the game and just reading up on the storyline.

[Sarevok]

Could not the game makers avoid the problem by simply restricting the entire game to one star cluster as opposed to the entire galaxy ?

It's not like the game contains 200 billion star systems anyway so would not the story make more sense as a clash between imperials, rebels and local thugs over some piss poor star cluster ?

[Battlehymn Republic]

Yeah, Zann being able to steal it is pretty stupid- unless, of course, the Imperials meant for him to do that. However, couldn't he still have crewed it temporarily with a skeleton crew and a lot of droids?

Is there any reason why they used a new made-up bullshit organisation and not the already-known powerful factions in the galaxy? Turns out some jokers nobody ever heard of stole the second most powerful ship in space!

Meh, it's a game, and the makers wanted to make their own cool new outlaw character who just happens to look like Prince Arthas, and has his own Dark Jedi assistant.

[VT-16]

I've gone and changed the unfounded Zann-wank now, so disregard that piece of information.

From what I can tell, the Eclipse is half-finished and is left in the Kuat system following the final battle, where Zann's private fleet gets decimated. And its only used there and nowhere else.

From what I've been able to find elsewhere, the Zann Consortium operated like a slightly more bloated criminal organization, had a better army and navy than Black Sun ever did, offered protection to some planets who wanted to stay neutral in the GCW, and raided some trade routes.

Hardly galactic domination-material.

[Battlehymn Republic]

I think that people who have their heads spinning over the gangster issue are seriously overlooking the "dark, seamy underbelly of the Empire" aspect of SW. From Boba Fett to Black Sun to Jabba the Hutt, the criminal underworld has always been overexposed in the EU, and perhaps even wanked out. So I think it's understandable why Lucasarts wanted to add a gangster character who sports the same look as the bloody Lich King, has a giant eagle friend, and a sexy Dark Jedi assistant (who in turn has her own pet rancor), rather than your Sith Lord of the day, or yet another cool-yet-ineffectual rogue Imperial Grand Admiral/moff.

Personally, I'd say that at least they didn't go for an IG-88-led droid rebellion.

Regardless, EaW:FoC is at least partly canon now, so I'm still trying to figure out the repercussions of that. Treating the Consortium as a galactic threat to either the Rebellion or the Empire pre-Endor is ludicrous. So I'd still like to try to figure out how it could fit.

[Zac Naloen]

Then it hits you...they give Zann a fucking Eclipse SSD. Of which there were only two, both destroyed in DE, now suddenly there is another. And this guy has the crew to operate it apparently.

Actually I'm pretty sure the one he tried to jack was the unfinished Eclipse, as he's forced to abandon it because he doesn't have the crew to man or complete the ship and just wanted the information on Palpatines hidden treasuries.

I believe the explanation is that Zann abandons it because he thinks it will draw too much attention I don;t recall the ability to crew it being a factor but I admit I could be wrong.

But that doesn't matter, he is still able to take the thing. The fact that his consortium is big enough to consider anything like that is stupid.

Black Sun, the predominant criminal Organization in Star Wars, is hyped as the most powerful organization of its kind in the SW Galaxy. Yet in MedStar II a Black Sun agent clearly states that even Black Suns entire military wouldn't be able to match the entire Republic force amassed at Drongar. One battle being fought out of many (don;t care what you say Karen Travesty) and it was still more than enough to smackdown Black Sun.

EDIT:

I thought Eclipse was supposed to be playable, but I don't see it in a unit list anywhere. Guess it was just a part of the plot, it's what I get for not playing the game and just reading up on the storyline.

Having played the game, Zann got on board the eclipse and nothing much else. The attempted hijacking was a ruse to get a sith Holocron and he then left it because there was no way he could hold onto the ship.

At no point did he actually hi-jack it and fly around the galaxy taking on the Empire.

At no point in the ACTUAL STORY does he appear to be anything other than a regional player, and Multiplayer/Skirmishes are not even vaguely canon so they hardly count.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Edit: It appears the use of the Eclipse (by the Zann folks, anyhows) in the game is exclusive to the Second Battle of Kuat, spoilers. Does this battle seem wanky?

It seems that this FoC-bashing might be a bit of a brain bug from overzealous hatred of the EU. Though that is not to say that FoC is free from faults, story-wise.

[Zac Naloen]

Hm... then how does the Eclipse actually feature in the battles? Is it multiplayer only? Or is it an Imperial ship?

Either way, it seems that this FoC-bashing might be a bit of a brain bug from overzealous hatred of the EU.

It's not a usable ship in the game, except in Mods.

It features in the Campaign for just one mission, Zann boards the ship, shoots it's gun at some ships a couple of times and then runs.

I believe there is a specific bit of dialogue where Zann says he could never take on the republic and the empire directly. The reason his ruse works is because he times it to coincide with a rebel attack on the Eclipse ship yard.

[VT-16]

Does this battle seem wanky?

Three large fleets duking it out with two Star Dreadnoughts going at it?

I'd say it's about fucking time. :P

[FTeik]

Black Sun has been around for a long time, while the Zann Consortion was rising and falling with its leader. It is a little bit like Napoleon VS the British Empire.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Quantify them? Wank for cash for Lucasarts.

I notice they continue to just glue-on whatever classification terms suit them; with their "destroyers" having heavy armor and needing escort.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Why, it's almost as if you haven't read a single post on this thread!

[Warsie]

Does this battle seem wanky?

Three large fleets duking it out with two Star Dreadnoughts going at it?

I'd say it's about fucking time.

they did it at Orinda, though not too many details are known.

EDIT: Well not 3 large fleets. Though the Imperial Civil War likely had similar things; the "equavilent of Three battlegroups" with 12 sides fighting over Coruscant,a nd the various other worlds.

[VT-16]

they did it at Orinda, though not too many details are known.

I know, but it's nice to get more of it.