Flood infestation of Tatooine

[Zor]

One boring day on Tatooine as of 3BBY in some extremely overlooked lower class housing area in Mos Espa in an equally overlooked Janitorial supplies closet is deposited three dozen flood infection forms, the flood infection notice the dozens of humans and aliens walking about and do what they do best.

What happens?

Zor

[Illuminatus Primus]

Sterilization via Base Delta Zero. Any other areas are suitably quarantined and rinse-wash-and-repeat. Vader had an area of Falleen sterilized from orbit when a bacteriological weapon was accidentally released.

[Noble Ire]

Sterilization via Base Delta Zero. Any other areas are suitably quarantined and rinse-wash-and-repeat. Vader had an area of Falleen sterilized from orbit when a bacteriological weapon was accidentally released.

I think the question is whether or not Tatooine is important enough to the Empire to warrant the immediate deployment of a Star Destroyer or other capital ship by the local sectorial command. They'd probably send a ship to investigate eventually, but it would probably only take the Flood a few days to infect every major population center on the planet; there aren't more than a few dozen settlements on Tatooine, after all, and most of them are concentrated in a few habitable areas.

[Peptuck]

Sterilization via Base Delta Zero. Any other areas are suitably quarantined and rinse-wash-and-repeat. Vader had an area of Falleen sterilized from orbit when a bacteriological weapon was accidentally released.

I think the question is whether or not Tatooine is important enough to the Empire to warrant the immediate deployment of a Star Destroyer or other capital ship by the local sectorial command. They'd probably send a ship to investigate eventually, but it would probably only take the Flood a few days to infect every major population center on the planet; there aren't more than a few dozen settlements on Tatooine, after all, and most of them are concentrated in a few habitable areas.

From there, its simply a case of hijacking every hyperdrive equipped freighter they can and jumping to the next backwater.

Eventually, once the Flood reach critical mass, they assemble a Gravemind who begins directing their forces more intelligently.

However, the Flood are probably not going to become a serious threat; the Empire would likely respond too quickly for them to reach the size and scope of the infection the Forerunners were dealing with, and the Empire doesn't have the restraints of the Mantle that would keep them from using their full military capability against the Flood.

[CycloneRider052]

Sterilization via Base Delta Zero. Any other areas are suitably quarantined and rinse-wash-and-repeat. Vader had an area of Falleen sterilized from orbit when a bacteriological weapon was accidentally released.

I think the question is whether or not Tatooine is important enough to the Empire to warrant the immediate deployment of a Star Destroyer or other capital ship by the local sectorial command. They'd probably send a ship to investigate eventually, but it would probably only take the Flood a few days to infect every major population center on the planet; there aren't more than a few dozen settlements on Tatooine, after all, and most of them are concentrated in a few habitable areas.

From there, its simply a case of hijacking every hyperdrive equipped freighter they can and jumping to the next backwater.

Eventually, once the Flood reach critical mass, they assemble a Gravemind who begins directing their forces more intelligently.

However, the Flood are probably not going to become a serious threat; the Empire would likely respond too quickly for them to reach the size and scope of the infection the Forerunners were dealing with, and the Empire doesn't have the restraints of the Mantle that would keep them from using their full military capability against the Flood.

I dunno, with the rate the Flood expand, a few days would really be all they need to become at least a sector wide threat. Chances are, before anyone with any authority realises just what is going on, at least one Flood infested ship will be on its way elsewhere, and since the Flood are STARTING in a spaceport town, it would probably only be a matter of hours until they're off planet. Even if Mos Espa only has a half dozen hyperdrive equipped ships when the infestation begins, that's six more planets you can pretty much just write off once the Flood arrive. We've got to remember too that the Empire has no experience with dealing with the Flood and probably will lose at least a few planets before they realise just how dangerous the Flood are. This is where the Empire's general lack of morality will really come in handy, since the Forerunners' heavy firepower (their star destroying weapon at the least) wasn't deployed until it was pretty much too late and the Flood had gained such a foot-hold in the Galaxy that there wasn't any option left other than simply killing everyone. The Empire, obviously isn't hamstrung by this and would hopefully, once the true scale of the threat is realised, simply blast infected planets to dust, and shoot down anything attempting to leave quarintined space. However, unless the Empire reacts within a matter of days, most of the galaxy can probably be written off and they'll find themselves in the same boat as the Forerunners.

[Noble Ire]

However, the Flood are probably not going to become a serious threat; the Empire would likely respond too quickly for them to reach the size and scope of the infection the Forerunners were dealing with, and the Empire doesn't have the restraints of the Mantle that would keep them from using their full military capability against the Flood.

That really depends upon how seriously the Empire takes the threat, and how well the Flood choose their next targets. If Tatooine is quickly blockaded and then glassed, and the infected vessels that manage to escape impact nearby Imperial colonies, the Imperial fleet should be able to contain the plague before it consumes more than a dozen relatively low-population worlds.

However, if there is any delay in the Imperial response, or the Flood decide to disperse and/or stagger their expansion points, it may be impossible for even the Empire to stop its spread.

Let's say that Tatooine, being an impoverished world of roughly 200,000 inhabitants (OT:ITW) and a single major spaceport, host around 20 hyperdrive-capable starships. Let's say that the Flood manage to commandeer a third of these. Each of these seven ships targets a world comparable to Tatooine in the immediate area. Considering the demonstrated rate of Flood outbreaks and the speed of hyperdrive, infection forms could easily be on neighboring worlds in under a week. Even if the Imperial fleet destroys Tatooine immediately after the commandeered ships depart, the spread has already begun. They might be able to glass each of the next target worlds, but if they miss even one for a few days, another half dozen ships can infect another half dozen worlds. If a lucky plague vessel happens upon moderately or heavily populated world, with hundreds or thousands of hyperdrive-enabled vessels at port, the situation becomes even worse.

I can envision a situation where, after glassing dozens of Outer Rim worlds to no avail, the Imperial fleet lets the rest of the rim fall and retreats to the Inner colonies and major industrial/commercial centers of the Galaxy. Considering the size of the Imperial fleet and the relative commonality of defensive platforms and planetary shields around affluent Imperial worlds, dispersion by crash-landing might be stemmed. However, the Empire is still left with the problem with quadrillions of refugees from millions of worlds on millions of ships. A single infection form on a single landed refugee ship or in a salvaged cargo container could theoretically infect billions on a world like Coruscant, Kaut, or Corellia, if not consume the planet entirely.

The Emperor would have to implement a doctrine of total quarantine on a galactic scale: every ship from an infected world, or any world likely to be a target of the Flood, would have to be turned away or destroyed, and contact with the aforementioned vessels and worlds would be punishable under pain of death. Undoubtedly, Palpatine could and would take such measures to save his Empire, but he would be left with a nation under siege from every side, a crippled economy and plummeting domestic morale, unimaginably high death tolls, an millions of worlds needing BDZing.

And, of course, even if every single infected colony was eventually glassed, the Flood might reassert itself at any time, rising from hibernation in a salvaged piece of starship debris or invading an exploratory ship on some uncharted Outer Rim moon.

[Ghost Rider]

Ah, the classic, because a threat to one universe A...the Flood are a massive threat to universe B.

We know that the Flood will spread like wildfire because they will automatically bypass any and all scans from SW sensors and become the threat they were in the Halo verse.

Let's stop leaping into automatic threat and try to make an arguement that they FOOL SW sensors as a unusual fucking object.

[Noble Ire]

Ah, the classic, because a threat to one universe A...the Flood are a massive threat to universe B.

We know that the Flood will spread like wildfire because they will automatically bypass any and all scans from SW sensors and become the threat they were in the Halo verse.

Let's stop leaping into automatic threat and try to make an arguement that they FOOL SW sensors as a unusual fucking object.

Sensor capabilities don't even factor into the scenario I presented. I assumed that Imperial vessels would be able to identify infected vessels and shoot them down before they crashed into more heavily populated worlds; relatively undefended planets, and those targeted at the earliest stages of the outbreak, are the problem.

[Gerald Tarrant]

I'm thinking that the Imperial military response will be much more effective than any response we've seen in game or Bungie lore. The biggest advantage the Imperials have is that their elite ground units have standard NBC protection, whereas the principal ground units of the UNSC and covenant (jackals, grunts, brutes) lack this. Also the Empire outclasses the military capabilities of the other SW bodies.

Non-imperial bodies might find themselves overwhelmed. But the Empire has both the ruthlessness and the military might to institute effective quarantines. And like Empire-vs-Borg scenarios self destruct procedures can become SOP if things go pear-shaped, will keep most star destroyers in human hands.

Things get a little trickier when you include criminal organizations like the Hutts and the Rebellion. The Gravemind in Halo 2 was devious enough to offer a false alliance to the Arbiter and Master Chief. I think it's within the flood's demonstrated behavior to try convince the rebellion of similar goals, and their relatively benign nature. That opens up the possibility of the Rebellion or some other terrorist/gangster organization aiding the infestation for their own goals.

[Peptuck]

The biggest advantage the Imperials have is that their elite ground units have standard NBC protection, whereas the principal ground units of the UNSC and covenant (jackals, grunts, brutes) lack this.

The problem with this is the Flood infection forms have been shown to be able to penetrate NBC-equipped units before, such as the Master Chief. More importantly, Stormtrooper armor has vulnerable points, particularly around the neck, which can be penetrated.

And even then, Stormtrooper armor would be hard-pressed to take a swinging Combat Form's arms, and Combat Forms are more than happy to use the weapons of their opponents, which are quite capable of penetrating Stormtrooper armor, not to mention their ease of use of enemy vehicles. And that's not counting the fact that the Flood use every body available to them, and by what we see in Halo 3, they begin making their own mutable "pure" forms once they've begun consuming a substantial source of biomatter.

The Flood would have no trouble overrunning the Empire's ground armies through sheer, overwhelming numbers. The Forerunner reports in Halo 3 indicate its a matter of course for the Flood to field armies in the billions. The only ground army that might stand a chance against the Flood would likely be a CIS one, with immensely large numbers of battle droids.

But where the Flood would most likely be stopped is in space. We know that their primary method of ship to ship combat is simply colliding with the target and using sheer numbers of ships to overwhelm the target's defenses, but SW shields are far too strong to take anything short of a direct collision with vessels of comparative tonnage, so unless the Flood capture a large warship early on, they won't be able to do much damage to heavy Imperial ships.

Also, any planet with a planetary shield is going to be relatively safe, so long as they observe quarantine protocols and scan all vessels before they enter the shields.

[fusion]

Dude, the empire fields trillions to quadrillion of soldiers as it can be derived from the quote of quadrillions of droids unless you think 3 million is a good number. And many trillions is much much more than billions....

[Teleros]

The Flood would have no trouble overrunning the Empire's ground armies through sheer, overwhelming numbers.

Artillery + Orbital fire support = what Flood?

[CycloneRider052]

Dude, the empire fields trillions to quadrillion of soldiers as it can be derived from the quote of quadrillions of droids unless you think 3 million is a good number. And many trillions is much much more than billions....

Is that PER planet? As the Flood force size in question is referring to a single planet.

[Covenant]

I think the real question at the heart of this is: "Would the combined material resource of Tatooine be great enough to bother the Empire?"

I don't think that's a difficult question.

The Flood aren't going to be able to be incredibly sneaky for all that long, as they aren't the most covert of "infection" style aliens. Even if they managed to get every single person on Tat under their control, they're still limited by the facilities ON Tat, as far as staging their grand attack is concerned. If they ever survive the first few blaster-exchanges between Stormtroopers and infested locals, they're still never getting off the planet.

If we assume that instead of trying to consolidate any resources, the first think they do is rush OFFWORLD, then aren't you merely creating a lower Flood population density across several worlds? What evidence do we have that they are even that large of a threat to begin with? Is this the first time the Empire has ever dealt with what is essentially a biological weapons attack?

[KlavoHunter]

Is this the first time the Empire has ever dealt with what is essentially a biological weapons attack?

Incidentally, the Empire dealt with a small outbreak of the Death Seed plague on Tatooine once. (Death Seed actually being an infestation by some small insect-like creatures.)

[Darth Ruinus]

How long do the Carrier forms take to be made?

[CycloneRider052]

How long do the Carrier forms take to be made?

Never seen in-game, but a combat form can be made in Halo 3 in between 3-5 seconds...

[Covenant]

How long do the Carrier forms take to be made?

Never seen in-game, but a combat form can be made in Halo 3 in between 3-5 seconds...

Really? Didn't it take hours for them to be created in Halo 1? I hadn't anticipated that degree of rapidity... I mean, there were even instances of Flood in the process of taking over a corpse taking a while to do it before. If a combat form can be birthed into being in a matter of seconds... rather than the screaming terrifying long-term affair from before... then that certainly does make things a tidbit easier for the flood.

I was expecting the Janitor would freak out, someone else would run across him in the next two hours as he's being flood-ized, and then some Stormies would just kill the fuckers.

If they've changed the speed at which they infest people, did the method change too? Before it was always 'latch onto your chest' and such--in which case the breastplate of a Stormtrooper might have made it very difficult for them to combatize people.

[Darth Ruinus]

How long do the Carrier forms take to be made?

Never seen in-game, but a combat form can be made in Halo 3 in between 3-5 seconds...

Yeah, but as I understand it, a Carrier form is made only after the host body is "used up" in which case the body becomes bloated with the little Infection turdlets.

So I guess it depends, if none of the Flood combat forms survive long enough to make Carrier forms, how will the Flood be a threat?

[SylasGaunt]

If they've changed the speed at which they infest people, did the method change too? Before it was always 'latch onto your chest' and such--in which case the breastplate of a Stormtrooper might have made it very difficult for them to combatize people.

THey don't need to get at your chest, any exposed skin or anything not durable enough to resist their probes will do.

[SylasGaunt]

Flood infection in Halo 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmIzu_tjk1U

[CycloneRider052]

How long do the Carrier forms take to be made?

Never seen in-game, but a combat form can be made in Halo 3 in between 3-5 seconds...

Yeah, but as I understand it, a Carrier form is made only after the host body is "used up" in which case the body becomes bloated with the little Infection turdlets.

So I guess it depends, if none of the Flood combat forms survive long enough to make Carrier forms, how will the Flood be a threat?

Carrier forms are also made from life-forms not large enough to become combat forms. IIRC Jackals and Grunts by default become Carriers.

[Peptuck]

Really? Didn't it take hours for them to be created in Halo 1? I hadn't anticipated that degree of rapidity... I mean, there were even instances of Flood in the process of taking over a corpse taking a while to do it before. If a combat form can be birthed into being in a matter of seconds... rather than the screaming terrifying long-term affair from before... then that certainly does make things a tidbit easier for the flood.

Depends, really. On In Halo: the Flood, Jenkins is implied to take a fair period of time to fully transform. However, in Halo 2, you're breaching the QZ walls mere minutes at bets behind the humans, and there's already rampant hordes of human Combat Forms prancing about, and you come across Elite corpses being converted even as Phantom dropships are flying away. In Halo 3, you can literally watch Brutes, Marines, and Elites being converted in front of your eyes.

It may have something to do with the Gravemind and amount of biomass available; the Flood on 04 did not have a Gravemind established, and were constructing one on board the Infinite Succor. On 05, they had a Gravemind but limited biomass available. In Halo 3, the Elites state that the Flood appears to have "evolved" - they sport completely new forms of Flood warriors, and take over a human city in a matter of minutes.

Basically, what's being dealt with on the first Halo was what Tatooine would encounter in the first few hours: a fresh infestation that hasn't had time to fully develop. In Halo 2, we see a much more coordinated and intelligent Flood force, which is probably what Tatooine and the Empire will be facing in a few days. In Halo 3, we see a Flood force with a city's worth of biomass at their disposal, and a fully formed Gravemind in command; this is probably what the Empire would be facing if they ignored Tatooine for more than a week or so, or the Flood get to a more heavily populated planet, or one with more biomass to play with. This isn't even counting the development of a interstellar or glactic infestation, like what the Forerunner were dealing with.

I think the Empire could easily win, but they would have to move fast and be characteristically ruthless; otherwise the infestation will keep spreading and growing and will be impossible to fully wipe out.

If we assume that instead of trying to consolidate any resources, the first think they do is rush OFFWORLD, then aren't you merely creating a lower Flood population density across several worlds? What evidence do we have that they are even that large of a threat to begin with?

In the time it takes you to fight through the High Charity level in Halo 2 - roughly twenty to thirty minutes - the Flood have not only overrun towers filled with countless heavily armed aliens but have begun seeding biological constructs throughout the city. A single small frigate loaded with Flood is able to overrun all of High Charity in a relatively short time.

In Halo 3, a Covenant cruiser filled with Flood overruns Voi in a matter of minutes. By the time you get from the hilltop on the outskirts of town and back into the city, you are getting swarmed by Flood.

Dude, the empire fields trillions to quadrillion of soldiers as it can be derived from the quote of quadrillions of droids unless you think 3 million is a good number. And many trillions is much much more than billions....

Spread across a galaxy of millions of worlds. And these soldiers are a pittance of the galactic population. The Flood, on the other hand, uses every single living creature it can find as a warrior, combatant or non combatant, and even planetary fauna gets converted into new warriors. Only the largest and most heavily manned and armed Imperial garrisons are going to be able to hold out against what is essentially every living thing on the planet - sentient and non-sentient - sprouting tentacles and rushing them, and having the very biosphere of their planet being converted into even more powerful and dangerous warrior forms.

The only way the Empire could win on the ground is with either huge armies of battle droids or by hitting the local infestation of Flood extremely quickly and ruthlessly before they can spread.

[Darth Ruinus]

Or, you know, some criminals shot all the Flood combat forms.

From what I gather, SW blasters are alot stronger than Covenant weaponry, so I would guess that the Flood would die faster at the hands of SW guns, even if it is only criminal weapons.

It may have something to do with the Gravemind and amount of biomass available

So, the Flood Carrier forms, and by extension, any chance for Flood to reproduce will be limited? Perfect.

Like I said, sooner or later, 3 dozen Combat forms are going to be noticed by some form of security forces (probaly the Stormies) and will be dealt with.

[Peptuck]

Indeed. Like I said, it all depends on how fast the response to the small Flood infestation is. If its quick enough it'll be nipped early on and won't be a problem. But if it manages to grow out of control before the locals respond quickly enough, things will get very bad, very fast.