Genetically superior Master Chief?

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2007-10-03 02:41pm

I was reading the manual for Halo 3 and I noted that the Master Chief is described as "genetically superior." What does that mean? Did the Haloverse humans genetically engineer the Spartans to be stronger and faster than normal humans? Or was the Master Chief always going to grow up to be a seven foot tall behemoth?

The impression I got, and I haven't read the books yet, was that the MC was a cyborg.

loomer · Post by **loomer** » 2007-10-03 02:45pm

Quite simply, the Spartans were selected to be the naturally smartest, toughest, strongest people available. Then pumped full of drugs and mechanical parts. So he is a Cyborg, but he's not genetically engineered.

loomer · Post by **loomer** » 2007-10-03 02:46pm

Ghetto edit:
Hit enter too soon. He was genetically modified during the modification, I think, but not prebirth.

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2007-10-03 02:48pm

The Spartans were each individually chosen because they were naturally superior to everyone around them. For example, the Master Chief was a head taller than everyone else in his class, he was so strong and smart that none of the kids would play any games -even chess - with him, and he could spot the sides of a coin flipping through the air with enough accuracy to guess which side was pointing up when he caught it.

As for being called a cyborg, he has a neural interface implant put into the back of his skull, but this is standard issue for all UNSC personnel.

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2007-10-03 02:49pm

loomer wrote:Ghetto edit:
Hit enter too soon. He was genetically modified during the modification, I think, but not prebirth.

The Spartan upgrades weren't genetic in nature. They did do biochemical upgrades, like thyroid implants that boosted his strength, and laced his bones with ceramics, but there was no genetic modification.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2007-10-03 02:54pm

I find the term "genetically superior" to be kind of creepy. I guess because it reminds me of the old idea of the Nazi eugenically created supermen.

Am I overreacting here?

[R_H] · Post by **[R_H]** » 2007-10-03 02:58pm

Crom wrote:I find the term "genetically superior" to be kind of creepy. I guess because it reminds me of the old idea of the Nazi eugenically created supermen.

Am I overreacting here?

Even the books are vague about this. There was a selection program, choosing individuals with traits that were described by Peptuck, but the methods used to find the candidates and quantify their desirable traits weren't mentioned

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2007-10-03 03:02pm

[R_H] wrote:
Crom wrote:I find the term "genetically superior" to be kind of creepy. I guess because it reminds me of the old idea of the Nazi eugenically created supermen.

Am I overreacting here?
Even the books are vague about this. There was a selection program, choosing individuals with traits that were described by Peptuck, but the methods used to find the candidates and quantify their desirable traits weren't mentioned

Ghosts of Onyx touches on this. Apparently, ONI were suggesting mandatory genetic screening of the entire populace to get more recruits for the S-III program, but doing something like that would result in the entire Outer Colonies revolting.

CycloneRider052 · Post by **CycloneRider052** » 2007-10-03 03:29pm

Peptuck wrote:
[R_H] wrote:
Crom wrote:I find the term "genetically superior" to be kind of creepy. I guess because it reminds me of the old idea of the Nazi eugenically created supermen.

Am I overreacting here?
Even the books are vague about this. There was a selection program, choosing individuals with traits that were described by Peptuck, but the methods used to find the candidates and quantify their desirable traits weren't mentioned
Ghosts of Onyx touches on this. Apparently, ONI were suggesting mandatory genetic screening of the entire populace to get more recruits for the S-III program, but doing something like that would result in the entire Outer Colonies revolting.

Until someone had the bright idea of sneaking the screening into normal vaccinations...

On the enhancement side...were there actually any cybernetic enhancements outside of the neural interface? I don't recall anything more than that in the novels though. Bungie has a hard-on for the term cyborg though, much like their love of AI's, so it could in all actuality just be another Marathon nod.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2007-10-03 04:38pm

The MJOLNIR armor weighs 1000 pounds, the Chief isn't going to be able to be moving in that without agumentations.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2007-10-03 05:00pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:The MJOLNIR armor weighs 1000 pounds, the Chief isn't going to be able to be moving in that without agumentations.

I thought the armor had like micro-actuators? So, the chief doesn't really feel the weight?

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2007-10-03 05:05pm

Ghetto Edit: Yeah, I think i does...didn't a suit turn another test subject into hamburger because it was so sensitive to movement and so damned fast?

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2007-10-03 05:09pm

Yes, a normal human who tried using it was killed horribly.

Tanasinn · Post by **Tanasinn** » 2007-10-03 05:12pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:The MJOLNIR armor weighs 1000 pounds, the Chief isn't going to be able to be moving in that without agumentations.

Well, it is powered armor, the Chief's prodigious strength aside. (He DOES have massive strength, I recall him accidentally killing at least two guys who started a brawl with him in one of the novels.)

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2007-10-03 05:54pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:The MJOLNIR armor weighs 1000 pounds, the Chief isn't going to be able to be moving in that without agumentations.

That's what the liquid crystal matrix is for; it serves as the primary means by which the suit improves its wearer's strength. The main reason why MJOLNIR isn't used by ordinary humans is that only a Spartan has the reflexes and physical durability to survive using it; ordinary humans will break their bones because the suit moves so fast and with so much strength.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-10-03 06:08pm

Wait, so he's not physcially reinforced, like a Space Marine? He's just 'lol tough', and that's the difference between being killed and running around at 60km/h?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2007-10-03 06:38pm

Stark wrote:Wait, so he's not physcially reinforced, like a Space Marine? He's just 'lol tough', and that's the difference between being killed and running around at 60km/h?

Actually he's supposed to be. One of the earlier programs was to enhance each of the SPARTANS to wank...uhhh superhuman levels. This way, when they put the armor on, they can acclimate to the armor better then a normal person would.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2007-10-03 06:46pm

So the Master Chief was like the German super-baby?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2007-10-03 06:53pm

Crom wrote:So the Master Chief was like the German super-baby?

The timeline goes kinda like this.

John starts out as some bigger and better kid. While no parameters are given they do state he is larger, and stronger then any of the other children he's playing with, and the doctor makes note these are a few things they are looking for. He demonstrates an above average intelligence as well.

After rigorous training they give every SPARTAN a few biological upgrades and enhancements. Essentailly a lower level of what a Space Marine goes through very intially. It kills about half the squad, but of course our main hero lives through just fine.

It makes them significantly faster and stronger then a regular human. Because of these enhancements the uber soliders are able to use the power armor because their reflexes are fast enough to compensate for how much faster the armor makes them(don't ask, I am just throwing out a summary...this part really made little sense).

Finally he gets the Mark II, Cortana and we begin the Fall of Reach which leads to Halo: The Game.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2007-10-03 07:53pm

Ghost Rider wrote:Finally he gets the Mark II, Cortana and we begin the Fall of Reach which leads to Halo: The Game.

*ahem* Mark V

Prior to the Covenant attack on Reach, the Mark IV suits were upgraded to Mark V, which allowed SPARTANs to house A.I. inside their armor (allowing faster reaction times as well as real-time mission intel), as well as carry full-coverage energy shields as a result of reverse-engineering Jackal shields.

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2007-10-03 09:29pm

He has physical reinforcement in the form of ceramic-reinforced bones, which are one of the main reasons he can use the armor. Like in Fall of Reach, pg 117

"John snapped a salute without thinking. His hand bounced off his helmet and a dull ache throbbed in his hand. His wrist would be bruised. If his hadn't been reinforced, he knew they would have been pulverized."

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2007-10-03 11:08pm

Ah, the ceramic-laced skeletal enhancements make a lot of sense on SPARTANs and 40k Space Marines. The fact that the Sisters of Battle can wear power armour without biological enhancements always did irk me.
Of course, Space Marines have S4 T4 even without the armor

And what do you guys think John's save is? A 3+ or 4+ armor save? Oops, I digress..

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-10-03 11:11pm

Comparing MC's armour to a Space Marine's armour seems ridiculous.

So is the cybernetics or the armour the expensive part?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2007-10-03 11:18pm

Stark wrote:Comparing MC's armour to a Space Marine's armour seems ridiculous.

So is the cybernetics or the armour the expensive part?

By the Novels the armor is expensive as hell, but the full Spartan program makes it look like the tip after an expensive meal. (I think they compare it's costs to a small capital ship)

In short if you hypothetically payed for eight years of intensive military training, probably equal to a modern PHD except it's full on training.

Were we to draw a modern comparison, it would be like if we trained Fighter pilots from age ten to age eighteen. Sure the F-22 is pretty damn expensive, but the flight time, traininers and missions then went on before hand would be pretty damn expensive when considered over all that time.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2007-10-04 12:19am

Considering the other enhancements, was it necessary to find a genetically superior child? Why not enhance an adult?