Flood infestation of Tatooine

[Stark]

Given the disparities between the Flood's performance in the games, it seem that there's plenty about the Flood that we don't know. While they can apparently be intelligent, they seem to spend a great deal of time being mindless waves of zombies. The Tatooine environment and spread-out civilization and hostile desert isn't going to help them, either, as they can't quickly grab heaps of people (unless they go to a major settlement, in which case they'll get wasted by smugglers and their starships ).

[Noble Ire]

Given the disparities between the Flood's performance in the games, it seem that there's plenty about the Flood that we don't know. While they can apparently be intelligent, they seem to spend a great deal of time being mindless waves of zombies. The Tatooine environment and spread-out civilization and hostile desert isn't going to help them, either, as they can't quickly grab heaps of people (unless they go to a major settlement, in which case they'll get wasted by smugglers and their starships ).

I'm honestly not seeing a ragtag collection of smugglers and criminals being able to contain a Flood outbreak, blasters or no. They'd probably end up being as combat effective as, say, Brutes were against them (but without coordination); look where that got the Covenant. The distance between settlements might pose more of a problem, but as I noted before, the real issue is their hijacking of starships and subsequent infection of other worlds.

As to the points raised about Imperial combat effectiveness against Flood forms, I would agree, the Imperial Army Corps would probably annihilate the Flood in field combat. However, they pose far more of a threat in urban environments, especially since the entire point of fighting them is to protect civilian populations from infection.

[Darth Ruinus]

I'm honestly not seeing a ragtag collection of smugglers and criminals being able to contain a Flood outbreak, blasters or no.

Well, 3 dozen Combat forms will probably pose a problem, but then again, they cant reproduce anytime soon (which may be crucial, since they may be killed by Stormies before they ever make Carrier forms)

They'd probably end up being as combat effective as, say, Brutes were against them (but without coordination);

Are Brute guns stronger than SW blasters? I cant image a Flood standing up to more than 2 or 3 shots from a blaster.

the real issue is their hijacking of starships and subsequent infection of other worlds.

The OP says that the infection forms are dropped in an out of the way, or ingored area. I doubt that some rooms so close to the starports will be ignored or not used.

In which case they would first have to get there, while probably killing people on their way there, while probably getting shot at by some criminal or some security force, and once they do get there (depending on how long the took) they would probably have to fight some sort of security force (maybe some Stormies, since they might guess in what direction the hostiles are moving)

especially since the entire point of fighting them is to protect civilian populations from infection.

Well, maybe the Stormies or whatever might not want to fire on civilians (which I get the feeling that they wouldnt really care) but, a criminal seeing a big nasty monster coming at it probably wont hesistate to fire at it.

That and, who is going to be outside, near these aggresive monsters, when the shooting starts?

[Stark]

Can anyone describe the levels of Flood density for various levels of intelligence? For instance, just how smart are a dozen or so combat forms really going to be, when the much larger colony on Halo1 was retarded for about half the game? It's fun to assume that 'in three days it'll be Halo3 style mass-from-nowhere magic Flood', but this requires a mechanism we can use to estimate density:intelligence ratios.

As Ruinius says, if there are a few goobers walking through the desert killing Aunt Beru houses in the middle of the desert, I'm not sure how this easily makes the jump to 'steal a ship'. What forms of Flood can interface with machines and what level of Flood density is required to do so? They didn't do it in Halo1 to my knowledge, but I believe they did in Halo2.

All this no-limits 'lol they will use all their best shit ever' when the Flood appear to perform pretty poorly at the low-end is over-optimistic. I'm not sure if you can say 'over optimistic' about magic immortal mass-from-nowhere wankworms like the Flood, but there you go.

[Darth Ruinus]

Edit: Wait, an overlooked janitorial closet?

Ok, this is going to sound stupid but, if its an overlooked janitorial closet, this means that the janitor hardly opens the door to the closet. And arent janitorial closets usually locked?

So, how did these Infection forms escape again?

I know its stupid but, still..... I want to know.

[Tanasinn]

Flood only bother to be intelligent when they have to be, but they CAN do it: their attempts to repair Infinite Succor and the Pillar of Autumn, Jumping In Amber Clad into High Charity, Gravemind's fuckery, the direct charge on the Ark in days of yore (as opposed to their normal spiraling feeding pattern), and the ambush laid for the Chief in Halo 1 all demonstrate this. I wouldn't call it a guarantee that the Flood-infested will merely charge out like morons when there's only a bare handful of 'em.

[Eris]

Say, for the moment, that it was a disused janitorial closet, and thus unlocked, that assuming that the critters just don't break down the door, burrow out, whatever. Maybe it was even just a dumpster no one checked for a few days. The door is hardly what was meant to be the interesting aspect of the scenario; it doesn't matter how they got there, just that they're in fact there.

[Tanasinn]

Can anyone describe the levels of Flood density for various levels of intelligence? For instance, just how smart are a dozen or so combat forms really going to be, when the much larger colony on Halo1 was retarded for about half the game? It's fun to assume that 'in three days it'll be Halo3 style mass-from-nowhere magic Flood', but this requires a mechanism we can use to estimate density:intelligence ratios.

We know from the novels that an individual Flood combat form only has as much brains as his host did when he snacked on him. We also know from the beastiary included with Halo 3 that Flood pre-Gravemind cannot coordinate on a massive scale.

[Stark]

Does that make sense? Why was the Flood so entirely retarded in Halo1, if each form was as smart as it's (presumably human/Cov) host? Why the human wave tactics? I thought the higher densities gained more intelligence, not a glorified messageboard.

I mean, who can look at the Flood early in Halo1 and Halo2 and say they have any intelligence at all? Most people see them as zombies!

[Darth Ruinus]

Flood only bother to be intelligent when they have to be, but they CAN do it: their attempts to repair Infinite Succor and the Pillar of Autumn, Jumping In Amber Clad into High Charity, Gravemind's fuckery, the direct charge on the Ark in days of yore (as opposed to their normal spiraling feeding pattern), and the ambush laid for the Chief in Halo 1 all demonstrate this.

Ok, but, I remember in Halo 1, there was a Brain form. Surely there are more? ( I mean, if they can make one, why not more? They certainly had enough infected bodies to do so right?) So, are Combat forms intelligent on their own or do they need a Brain or Gravemind for higher thought?

Also, cant the tactics in Halo 2 (and I assume, during their conflict with the Forerunners) be attributed to the presence of a Gravemind? If so, then, thats all well and good, but they dont have one here.

I wouldn't call it a guarantee that the Flood-infested will merely charge out like morons when there's only a bare handful of 'em.

But, dont they do that often?

[Darth Ruinus]

We know from the novels that an individual Flood combat form only has as much brains as his host did when he snacked on him.

(I should have waited a while longer for a response)
Well, since this is Tatooine, then, I guess these Flood wont be so smart?

We also know from the beastiary included with Halo 3 that Flood pre-Gravemind cannot coordinate on a massive scale.

Perfect, an uncoordinated mass of monsters. That will make things easier, since this implies no actual tactics, just run and kill everything in sight, which is a bad thing for the Flood in this situation.

[Peptuck]

Yeah, Tatooine is a bad place for the Flood to start out at, really. There's just not enough biomass for them to assemble a Gravemind or lesser Brain Forms, and the populace is well-armed enough to take down what limited Flood forces would appear at the beginning.

Now, if we dropped them in someplace more welcoming in terms of biomass, like, say, Kashyyyk.....

An important thing to add about Infection Forms is that I don't think the IF is consumed when it creates a new Combat Form from a living body. IIRC, in Halo and Halo 2, they just carry on after killing a target, so its possible they could infect more people while the Combat Forms are running about causing hilarity. If they encounter children or small creatures not suited for combat, they may make them into Carrier Forms as well.

But this is assuming they survive long enough to actually infect anything.

[Stark]

What's their life-expectancy or nutritional requirements? I know the Flood are mass-from-nowhere, but do they eat or have very curtailed lifespans? This could be relevant in a barren place like Tatooine, where there are few animals, little food, and every local has a gun.

I understand the little worm goobers can hang around for ages though, so maybe they'll be more successful as ambush predators at the beginning.

[Darth Ruinus]

Kashyyyk.....

Arent there nastier things in Kashyyk?

[Covenant]

Kashyyyk.....

Arent there nastier things in Kashyyk?

How about Endor then? The absolutely fucking worthlessness of nearly everything there will ensure a great deal of Carrier forms being spawned, and since Flood can also infest trees, that'll lead to a very Nausicaa-esque transformation of the forest moon.

[Ma Deuce]

An important thing to add about Infection Forms is that I don't think the IF is consumed when it creates a new Combat Form from a living body.

No, it isn't consumed; it simply resides inside the chest cavity of the host, apparently acting as it's brain. Remember how in Halo 2 and 3 when you blow off a Combat Form's arms rendering it unable to fight without actually killing it, the combat form would promptly splatter, and out pops an Infection Form (in Halo 1, the disarmed combat forms would simply follow you around harmlessly). I don't see any reason to assume a single infection form can infect and control more than one host at a time.

[Napoleon the Clown]

Keep in mind here that the Empire can enforce a quarantine on any infected worlds and blow the shit out of any and all craft that have come from there since a week or so before. Hell, they can easily pull all logs of all the space ports and quarantine any worlds that may have had a problem. After locking down a few dozen systems (if it actually comes to that) they can just turn the surface of every world that has been confirmed to be infected into a charred mass. Or The Galaxy's biggest collection of glass, in the case of Tatooine. The forest moon of Endor offers the best shot for the Flood to establish themselves. Kashyyk has some truly vicious beasties that would rip the fuck out of the Flood, and possibly even be able to ignore the spores entirely.


As far as Imperial weapons against Flood goes, yeah one hit kill. We're talking about blasts that burn through Storm Trooper armor and still have plenty of energy left to kill the Trooper inside in very short order. The Flood bodies would be charred messes. And I find it unlikely the Flood would get the kind of firepower they need to overwhelm a decent group of Storm Troopers. Blaster pistols and rifles are all well and good, but it's somewhat doubtful that mere farmers have something to match the rate of fire and shots Storm Troopers are given. And never mind ground support vehicles and even air support. A handful of AT-STs would curb stomp an entire army of Flood, nevermind what an AT-AT would be like. Bring in some TIEs or even something as shitty as the Speeders the Rebels had on Endor and the Flood are fucked.

Of course, Storm Troopers do have thermal detonators. If the Flood present a big enough danger they can just remote detonate anybody who gets taken down by Flood. You can't animate a corpse if there are no remains. And you can't take a gun if it's now in millions of pieces, if it wasn't simply vaporized.


Worst case scenario, the Empire has to snuff out a few worlds by the end. Most likely though, the problem will be dealt with shortly after they know it could be a big problem. I think that maybe two or three Outer Rim worlds may be lost. The Empire has shown that it has no issue what so ever with committing genocide. The Deathstar crew blew up Alderaan without hesitation. And that was in large part to shove Leia off balance. The Flood wouldn't be too much of an issue for the Empire, especially if they hit it hard quickly.

[Tanasinn]

Ok, but, I remember in Halo 1, there was a Brain form. Surely there are more? ( I mean, if they can make one, why not more? They certainly had enough infected bodies to do so right?) So, are Combat forms intelligent on their own or do they need a Brain or Gravemind for higher thought?

Also, cant the tactics in Halo 2 (and I assume, during their conflict with the Forerunners) be attributed to the presence of a Gravemind? If so, then, thats all well and good, but they dont have one here.

The "brain form" in Halo 1 is now implied to have been a proto-Gravemind. It would have had an influence on the Flood, but not been the controlling force a dominant Gravemind is.

The Gravemind seems to be important largely in coordination: the beastiary mentions that swarm-wide coordination does not occur until a Gravemind has been established. Before then, it speculates the infected release chemical signals. The better coordination shown in the Halo 2 and 3 Flood swarms seems to reflect this, but Gravemind-lacking Flood can still operate successfully (they ambush the Chief and work on repairing both the Infinite Succor and the Pillar of Autumn to attempt to escape and spread further.

The beastiary mentions that a Gravemind will be reestablished when it is physically destroyed, but an individual swarm has one Gravemind (really, one collective conscious) at one time.

But, dont they do that often?

The Flood, in all situations encountered, charge and attempt to overwhelm their foes. These situations, however, have all shown us Flood infestations with massively superior numbers. What they behave like when low in numbers or isolated is questionable; I recall spore-forms in 3 mincing away from the Chief if they were alone, but that hardly speaks for the entire species.

Does that make sense? Why was the Flood so entirely retarded in Halo1, if each form was as smart as it's (presumably human/Cov) host? Why the human wave tactics? I thought the higher densities gained more intelligence, not a glorified messageboard.

The Flood are, ultimately, hungry animals. The host is really more of a "reference book" than anything; the controlling parasite will grasp for knowledge when its relevant and purge useless information (as happened to Keyes), but otherwise operates on its base feeding instincts, as we've seen. Bigger swarms presumably have a better knowledge base to draw on when absolutely necessary, but the coordination a Gravemind provides seems to be the singlemost important benefit.

Well, since this is Tatooine, then, I guess these Flood wont be so smart?

They'll have less practical and universal knowledge to draw on than if they snacked on an Imperial admiral, but the parasite and its behavior probably won't be different. The only time I can recall the Flood treating "smart guys" differently was in Halo 1, where Keyes and an Elite (probably Infinite Succor's Shipmaster) were being used as the basis of a Gravemind.

Perfect, an uncoordinated mass of monsters. That will make things easier, since this implies no actual tactics, just run and kill everything in sight, which is a bad thing for the Flood in this situation.

A small swarm can presumably get by with relaying of chemical signals. It worked for the swarm in Halo 1.

[Darth Ruinus]

A small swarm can presumably get by with relaying of chemical signals. It worked for the swarm in Halo 1.

I am having a very hard time accepting the whole "FLOOD SWARM LOLZ!" idea.

Seriously, what are the fucking chances that 3 dozen flood combat forms are going to survive for any meaningful amount of time on TATOOINE without getting blasted by some criminals(and/or)Stormies or getting eaten by some wild animal? (Sarlaac (sp?) pit maybe?)

Seriously, if the Flood dont survive long enough to reproduce, then all these Flood swarm scenarios are pretty much worthless....

[Sidewinder]

I understand the little worm goobers can hang around for ages though, so maybe they'll be more successful as ambush predators at the beginning.

That makes me wonder... what will happen if a Flood infection form falls into the Sarlacc pit? Does the Sarlacc simply digest the Flood infection form, or does the Sarlacc become a Flood entity, e.g., a gigantic carrier or even a Gravemind?

[Peptuck]

A small swarm can presumably get by with relaying of chemical signals. It worked for the swarm in Halo 1.

I am having a very hard time accepting the whole "FLOOD SWARM LOLZ!" idea.

Seriously, what are the fucking chances that 3 dozen flood combat forms are going to survive for any meaningful amount of time on TATOOINE without getting blasted by some criminals(and/or)Stormies or getting eaten by some wild animal? (Sarlaac (sp?) pit maybe?)

Seriously, if the Flood dont survive long enough to reproduce, then all these Flood swarm scenarios are pretty much worthless....

Yeah, even in Halo CE it was implied that the Forerunner kept a LOT of infection forms in stasis. The Flood need to hit a target with a certain minimum of mass to stand a chance; below a certain threshold a Flood swarm will be realistically containable, and I think the threshold for this scenario is way too small.

Now, you drop, say, a freighter full of hundreds of infection forms on Mos Eisely or Mos Espa, you're probably going to be looking at a much more potent Flood force.

[Stark]

People using the absurdly pretentious silly subtitle for Halo1 instead of 'Halo1' make me laugh.

[Darth Ruinus]

Now, you drop, say, a freighter full of hundreds of infection forms on Mos Eisely or Mos Espa, you're probably going to be looking at a much more potent Flood force.

Depends, if it lands, and when the cargo hold opens, and these things pour out of it, chances are someone is going to sound an alarm, in which case security forces arrive very fast.

If it crashes into Mos Eisely or Mos Espa, well, security forces are going to check that out pretty fast too.....

The only way I can picture a Flood outbreak on the massive scales people talk about, is if some animals are infected first. Animals who are far away from a city, otherwise someone might notice.

[Ender]

Indeed. Like I said, it all depends on how fast the response to the small Flood infestation is. If its quick enough it'll be nipped early on and won't be a problem. But if it manages to grow out of control before the locals respond quickly enough, things will get very bad, very fast.

No, it won't. Per Shatterpoint, starports are equipped with sterilization fields that prevent infections and such from taking place - in fact the one in Shatterpoint was specifically for the fungus there.

[Baal]

Can anyone describe the levels of Flood density for various levels of intelligence? For instance, just how smart are a dozen or so combat forms really going to be, when the much larger colony on Halo1 was retarded for about half the game? It's fun to assume that 'in three days it'll be Halo3 style mass-from-nowhere magic Flood', but this requires a mechanism we can use to estimate density:intelligence ratios.

As Ruinius says, if there are a few goobers walking through the desert killing Aunt Beru houses in the middle of the desert, I'm not sure how this easily makes the jump to 'steal a ship'. What forms of Flood can interface with machines and what level of Flood density is required to do so? They didn't do it in Halo1 to my knowledge, but I believe they did in Halo2.

All this no-limits 'lol they will use all their best shit ever' when the Flood appear to perform pretty poorly at the low-end is over-optimistic. I'm not sure if you can say 'over optimistic' about magic immortal mass-from-nowhere wankworms like the Flood, but there you go.

How do we know the Flood was stupid for half of Halo 1? Sure they seemed to act dumb, but the endless wave of flood zombies did a pretty good job of tying the MC up while they were repairing the Pillar of Autumn. For all we knew they Flood were playing the role of dumb zombies on purpose to keep the MC and the Covenent occupied while they rebuilt the Pillar so they could escape.