Pakistan losing control of fight against AQ and Taliban

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Pakistan losing control of fight against AQ and Taliban

Post by Lonestar »

Washington Post
October 3, 2007
Pg. 1

Pakistan Seen Losing Fight Against Taliban And Al-Qaeda

By Griff Witte, Washington Post Foreign Service

PESHAWAR, Pakistan -- Pakistan's government is losing its war against emboldened insurgent forces, giving al-Qaeda and the Taliban more territory in which to operate and allowing the groups to plot increasingly ambitious attacks, according to Pakistani and Western security officials.

The depth of the problem has become clear only in recent months, as regional peace deals have collapsed and the government has deferred developing a new strategy to defeat insurgents until Pakistan's leader, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, can resolve a political crisis that threatens his presidency.

Meanwhile, radical Islamic fighters who were evicted from Afghanistan by the 2001 U.S.-led invasion have intensified a ruthless campaign that has consumed Pakistan's tribal areas and now affects its major cities. Military officials say the insurgents have enhanced their ability to threaten not only Pakistan but the United States and Europe as well.

"They've had a chance to regroup and reorganize," said a Western military official in Pakistan. "They're well equipped. They're clearly getting training from somewhere. And they're using more and more advanced tactics."

Pakistan's military, on the other hand, is considering pulling back from the fight -- at least partially -- in the face of mounting losses, the official said.

"They're not trained for a counterinsurgency. It's not their number one priority. It's not even their number two priority," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "These are the reasons things aren't going their way."

Pakistani military officials concede they are searching for a new strategy now that the old one has gone awry. But with Musharraf struggling to stay in office and expected to soon step down from the military, no decisions are likely until questions over the country's leadership are settled.

"The federal government is busy with its problem of legitimacy. Getting Musharraf elected for another five years -- that is keeping everything on hold," said retired Brig. Gen. Mehmood Shah, who until 2005 was a top security official in the tribal areas.

In recent years, Pakistan has relied on deals with insurgents to keep them from launching offensives. But two such agreements -- in North and South Waziristan -- fell apart this summer when insurgent leaders abruptly announced they were backing out.

The main criticism of the deals, both in Pakistan and in the West, had been that they gave al-Qaeda and the Taliban sanctuary in which to train, plot and launch attacks.

Now, security experts say Pakistan is paying the price for not confronting the problem head-on, with insurgent groups capitalizing on their newfound strength.


Last month, a suicide bomber attacked a bus carrying workers with the nation's hugely influential spy agency, Inter-Services Intelligence, killing 22 people. Just a week later, a bomber reportedly wearing a military uniform breached one of the most secure army installations in the country, where elite commandos train. The assailant detonated his explosives in the officers' mess during dinnertime, leaving 17 soldiers dead.

The latest blows came Monday, when a suicide bomber killed 15 people, including four policemen, in the northwestern town of Bannu. Late Monday night, more than 20 Frontier Corps troops went missing after their post near Bannu came under attack.

The insurgent strikes represent a humiliating breakdown in security for the world's sixth-largest army. But most embarrassing is the fact that about 250 soldiers remain in Taliban hands more than a month after they were taken hostage.

The soldiers were traveling in a supply convoy through the hostile terrain of South Waziristan on Aug. 30 when their route was blocked by a group of local fighters. Although they were vastly outnumbered, the fighters managed to persuade the soldiers to surrender without firing a shot. Since then, the government has been unable to win the soldiers' freedom because the Taliban is seeking major concessions.

"This kidnapping is a lesson to the government to honor its peace deal with us," said Zulfiqar Mehsud, a spokesman for the Taliban, which blames the government for violating the agreement. Mehsud's group wants to transform Pakistan into a radical Islamic state modeled after Afghanistan before the 2001 U.S.-led invasion.

The troops' surrender has called into question the army's commitment to fighting an unpopular war that requires Pakistanis to kill their countrymen. It has also exposed the army to ridicule.

"In Waziristan, people are laughing at the army," said Lateef Afridi, a tribal elder and lawyer. "I really feel pity for these soldiers."

One of those soldiers, Najmul Hasan, 29, recently spent 50 days in Taliban captivity in Waziristan. "The ringleaders would threaten on a daily basis to behead us if the government didn't release their members," Hasan said. He and two others eventually escaped, but other soldiers were, in fact, beheaded. The Taliban videotaped one such incident in which an execution was carried out by a teenage boy.

While Waziristan is believed to be the operational headquarters for the insurgency, militant groups have expanded their reach significantly over the past year. They now have a firm grip not only on the tribal areas that line the Afghan border but on other sections of northwest Pakistan as well.

Residents of this frontier city are beginning to feel besieged, with the surrounding countryside falling under insurgents' sway and assailants occasionally carrying out attacks in Peshawar.

Even hard-line religious leaders are not safe. Last month, one of Peshawar's most prominent clerics, Maulana Hassan Jan, was assassinated as he rode in his car to evening prayers. Although he had been outspoken in his criticism of the United States and was revered among many who want to bring Islamic law to Pakistan, he was not radical enough to satisfy insurgent groups, who are blamed for his killing. He had, for instance, shunned the pro-Taliban clerics at Islamabad's Red Mosque, or Lal Masjid, when they instigated an armed standoff with the government in July.

"Traditional religious and political leaders are losing ground because people consider them very soft against Pervez Musharraf and America," said Qibla Ayaz, dean of the Islamic studies program at Peshawar University. "Among the youth, their influence is weakening."

The United States has pumped about $10 billion into Pakistan since 2001, the vast majority of it for the military. But the aid does not seem to have won the United States many friends here. Nor has it successfully prepared the Pakistani army to battle insurgents.

"The sad thing about it is that a lot of these militants are better off than the Frontier Corps," said the Western official, referring to the Pakistani force that is supposed to be on the front lines fighting the Taliban and al-Qaeda. The militants "have rockets. They have advanced weapons. And the Frontier Corps has sandals and a bolt-action rifle."

Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden has sought to exploit the Pakistani military's deficiencies and its unpopular ties to the United States. Last month, he released an unusual audio recording in which he focused almost all of his wrath on Musharraf and called on Pakistanis to overthrow their government.

Shah, the retired general, said that knowing how strong al-Qaeda has become, Pakistani officials are deluding themselves if they think insurgents will back down anytime soon.

"Pakistan should have no doubt about what these people have done, and what they can do," he said. "They have declared war on Pakistan. Now the army must make a war plan."

Special correspondents Imtiaz Ali in Peshawar and Kamran Khan in Karachi, Pakistan, contributed to this report.
Now, security experts say Pakistan is paying the price for not confronting the problem head-on, with insurgent groups capitalizing on their newfound strength.
Gee, you think? I mean, it isn't like I've been saying the uptick in fighting in Afghanistan seems to correlate with when Pakistan began to try to exit the Tribal Areas. Now you got assholes running around the country and holding 250 soldiers hostage. Jesus.
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Post by Darth Wong »

What a goddamned nightmare, and the rest of the world can only watch.
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

Darth Wong wrote:What a goddamned nightmare, and the rest of the world can only watch.
You're so negative, focus on the bright side of things! For example, at least Saddam Hussein is dead and we're double-plus super sure he can't hit America with WMDs.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Darth Wong wrote:What a goddamned nightmare, and the rest of the world can only watch.
Well, I'm glad we denied AQ a base for organizing attacks against North America, yessiree.
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Post by FTeik »

Damn. who the fuck helped to set up all those quran-schools in Pakistan, where those fanatics got their first indoctrination?
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Post by Darth Wong »

With the rise of radical Islam in the country, it's hard to believe Pakistan once had a democratically elected female Prime Minister (Benazir Bhutto).
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Post by Kanastrous »

FTeik wrote:Damn. who the fuck helped to set up all those quran-schools in Pakistan, where those fanatics got their first indoctrination?
Our Wahabbist Saudi allies.

You *do* trust our Wahabbist Saudi allies, don't you?

And if not...why do you hate freedom?
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Post by Arthur_Tuxedo »

The real problem isn't that the Pakistani government is losing the war of bullets with the Islamists, it's that they're losing the war of ideas, and the US is to blame for a lot of that. America keeps increasing military aid to Musharraf's regime even when he has clearly stated he doesn't need it and wants to build secular schools instead to counter the madrassas that are educating such a large part of the country. Unable to see how building schools instead of planes and tanks will benefit wealthy corporations like Lockheed Martin, the US has always refused. Just more evidence that American politicians just don't understand the nature of the war against militant Islam, or simply don't care if the world goes to shit as long as they and their friends skate home with fat wallets.
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Post by Knife »

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:The real problem isn't that the Pakistani government is losing the war of bullets with the Islamists, it's that they're losing the war of ideas, and the US is to blame for a lot of that. America keeps increasing military aid to Musharraf's regime even when he has clearly stated he doesn't need it and wants to build secular schools instead to counter the madrassas that are educating such a large part of the country. Unable to see how building schools instead of planes and tanks will benefit wealthy corporations like Lockheed Martin, the US has always refused. Just more evidence that American politicians just don't understand the nature of the war against militant Islam, or simply don't care if the world goes to shit as long as they and their friends skate home with fat wallets.
While I'll agree with the notion, what the fuck has the US selling tanks and bullets have to do with Musharif building his own schools?
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Post by Arthur_Tuxedo »

Saudi and other Islamists are funneling vast amounts of money to build these schools and wage this war of ideas. Pakistan's government simply can't compete with the amount of money they're spending without help.
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Post by Darth Wong »

No American government is going to spend money to build secular schools in Pakistan when the word "secular" is so controversial at home. If Bush had his way, there would be fewer secular schools in America.
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Post by Master of Ossus »

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:The real problem isn't that the Pakistani government is losing the war of bullets with the Islamists, it's that they're losing the war of ideas, and the US is to blame for a lot of that. America keeps increasing military aid to Musharraf's regime even when he has clearly stated he doesn't need it and wants to build secular schools instead to counter the madrassas that are educating such a large part of the country.
Less than one percent of Pakistani children attend madrassas, according to UN figures. :roll:
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

US funded secular schools in Pakistan would be lucky to have any level of enrollment at all, before they get blown up. That’s an idea which would not even begin to work. Its pointless anyway, as has been pointed out madrassas handle only a tiny fraction of the population, and much of the enrollment is in remote tribal areas where parents would simply never send there kids to anything else. Those mountainous regions have not changed since Islam first arrived, except to obtain somewhat modern weaponry thanks to the Soviets stirring up the hornets nest.
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Master of Ossus wrote:
Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:The real problem isn't that the Pakistani government is losing the war of bullets with the Islamists, it's that they're losing the war of ideas, and the US is to blame for a lot of that. America keeps increasing military aid to Musharraf's regime even when he has clearly stated he doesn't need it and wants to build secular schools instead to counter the madrassas that are educating such a large part of the country.
Less than one percent of Pakistani children attend madrassas, according to UN figures. :roll:
So the people on the ground protesting the lack of Islamicness of the government are the vocal minority and foreigners?
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Post by Siege »

Or it could just be that the majority of fundamentalists in Pakistan are not educated in Madrassas--those are hardly the only road to Fundietown, after all.

I wonder how many people in the tribal regions go to school in the first place. They might just get their views from their social environment. Schools would help, but even if they don't go to school they might still end up as fundamentalist islamists and/or tribal warriors.
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Post by Crown »

I know we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves here (well at least I am), but if Pakistan did fall to radical Islamists, can we expect India to open up with some artificial sunshine love?

It seems to me, that givent he shoddy state of Pakistani command and control over their nukes, a first strike blitz by India, might actually be a realistic scenario to stop them from being used.

Thoughts?
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Post by [R_H] »

"They're not trained for a counterinsurgency. It's not their number one priority. It's not even their number two priority," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "These are the reasons things aren't going their way."
That's bizarre that counterinsurgency wouldn't be a top priority. You'd think after the "defeat" of the Taliban in Afghanistan (and then going to the tribal regions of Pakistan) and the continuing problems with the insurgency there, that the Pakistani government would make counterinsurgency a higher priority than say buying F-16 jets from the US (who could have provided training for the army etc instead of shiny jets).
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Post by Lonestar »

[R_H] wrote:
That's bizarre that counterinsurgency wouldn't be a top priority. You'd think after the "defeat" of the Taliban in Afghanistan (and then going to the tribal regions of Pakistan) and the continuing problems with the insurgency there, that the Pakistani government would make counterinsurgency a higher priority than say buying F-16 jets from the US (who could have provided training for the army etc instead of shiny jets).
I suspect that when you are sitting next to India, and you have a long history of conflict with India, there are a lot of things that jostle for "Top Priority".
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Post by Lonestar »

Arrgh, I didn't mean to hit "reply" so soon.

In today's Christian Science Monitor(Pulled from EB)
Christian Science Monitor
October 4, 2007

Pakistani Taliban Besieged, But Confident

In a basement in Bannu, a group of Pakistani Taliban vow to continue Afghan operations.

By Suzanna Koster, Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

BANNU, PAKISTAN -- The 26-year-old Pakistani pro-Taliban militant Majnoon used to openly vice patrol in his hometown, Datta Khel, along the Afghan border, he says. But since a peace agreement in his area ended two months ago, the Pakistani Army is after him, and he says he can no longer go after those who violate Islamic social norms. But he still wants to continue his struggle for an Islamic state in Afghanistan.

"Now the training camps over here are shunned, and everybody is on the road to get training in suicide attacks and other tactics inside Afghanistan," says Majnoon, wearing a white prayer cap.

Majnoon, and a few other self-declared Taliban fighters interviewed recently in a basement in Bannu, say that the NATO and US forces in Afghanistan now face more threats from Pakistani pro-Taliban militants than before a controversial peace agreement was broken.

Pro-Taliban militants and the Pakistani government signed a heavily criticized peace agreement in February 2005 and September 2006. The Pakistani Army agreed to reduce its presence in tribal areas if the militants would stop attacking the Pakistani Army and forces in Afghanistan.

But many analysts and observers said that the peace agreement provided free cross-border movement for Taliban fighters, thereby increasing violence and instability.

Last July, the agreement came to an end following a standoff between the Pakistani military and militants in Islamabad's Lal (Red) Mosque.

No longer occupied with vice patrols and running their own tribal government, Majnoon and other Pakistani Taliban say they are now devoting their efforts fighting the Pakistani military and foreign soldiers in Afghanistan, though it has become harder for them to operate.

"Now that the peace agreement is broken it is very difficult for us to move in groups or convoys, because now we are against the military persons, and police officials are everywhere," says Majnoon, making sure to stay in line with his Muslim beliefs and avoid eye contact with his female interviewer.

This development is dangerous for both the foreign and local forces in Afghanistan, say the interviewees, and has already proved lethal for Pakistani security personnel.

Indeed, a new United Nations report shows an upsurge in violence in Afghanistan this year. On average the country has seen an average of 550 violent incidents per month, compared with 425 a month last year.

Some analysts are skeptical of the Pakistani militants' remarks about having more time and incentive to cross into Afghanistan. "They have their own fight here now. They cannot spare any fighters to go to Afghanistan," says Rahimullah Yousafsai, an editor for the Pakistani newspaper The News.

Samina Ahmad, project director for South Asia at the International Crisis Group in Islamabad, agrees. "They have been targeting Bannu every second day," she says.

Though Maulana Attaullah Shah Bukhari, head of the Pakistani Taliban in Bannu, seems light-hearted, smiling after every answer, he considers himself at war. "It is just retaliation here [in Pakistan], but on the other side of the border, NATO forces US coalition forces, and British forces will face the brunt of this situation," he says, referring to the broken peace agreement.

Mr. Bukhari is an enormous man with a long beard, and trained in the notorious Haqqani Madrassah, a religious school that produced several prominent Taliban leaders. He says that now he produces his own Taliban fighters for Afghanistan in his religious school with 2,000 students and followers.

One of them is Qari Afsar, who says that he just came back from the Afghan province of Uruzgan. "We have their cooperation in every aspect, in bread, butter, life, weapons, everything," he says, referring to the Afghans.

The Pakistani and Afghan Taliban coordinate their attacks by satellite phones, says one of the turban-headed fighters who requests not to be named. "We have a special wireless system through which we communicate, clear issues with each other, and to tell who's coming and who's going."

Ms. Ahmad confirms that Taliban militants, like Majnoon and Bukhari are growing stronger in Pakistan. "A US national intelligence assessment tells us that the Taliban have revised and reinvigorated their presence in Pakistan's tribal belt," he says.

Pakistan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a press statement that "the president has repeatedly affirmed Pakistan's determination not to allow our territory to be used against Afghanistan." It also said that 100,000 troops and 1,000 military posts were put along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

But militants maintain that crossing the border is easy. "We don't feel any kind of fear that anyone will spy on us or the government will arrest us, because the other side of the border is also our land," says Bukhari.

Asad Durrani, the former head of Pakistan military's Inter-Services Intelligence Bureau, says it is impossible to stop the cross-border movement. But he downplays the role of Pakistani and other foreign fighters in Afghanistan. "Foreigners never made a difference in Afghanistan."
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
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Post by Lord of the Abyss »

[R_H] wrote: You'd think after the "defeat" of the Taliban in Afghanistan (and then going to the tribal regions of Pakistan) and the continuing problems with the insurgency there, that the Pakistani government would make counterinsurgency a higher priority than say buying F-16 jets from the US (who could have provided training for the army etc instead of shiny jets).
Could ? Sure. But would they ? Selling them planes and such is probably more profitable to Bush's corporate buddies than sending a bunch of soldiers over to train people would be.
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Post by [R_H] »

Lord of the Abyss wrote:
[R_H] wrote: snip
Could ? Sure. But would they ? Selling them planes and such is probably more profitable to Bush's corporate buddies than sending a bunch of soldiers over to train people would be.
Then what's the whole fucking point with the "War on Terror" if you're not going to properly equip/train your allies whom you want in the conflict? Why does the Bush administration keep on wanking that to death, yet coporate welfare is a higher priority than insuring the stability of an ally in the region?

:wtf: That makes no bloody sense at all.

Lonestar, I agree that India would be their first priority, but what's their second?
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Post by thejester »

Couldn't this also be a result of the Army being distracted by this whole are-we-going-to-hold-onto-power thing they've got going on at the moment?
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Post by Lonestar »

Lord of the Abyss wrote: Could ? Sure. But would they ? Selling them planes and such is probably more profitable to Bush's corporate buddies than sending a bunch of soldiers over to train people would be.

That's a fascinating idea. Alternatively, it could be that Pakistan has a history of fighting with the other major power in South Asia, and so part of the deal after 9/11 was to hand over the jets that Pakistan bought in the early nineties but was canceled by the Clinton administration...without offering a refund.

We here in the states don't have to sit around worryign about a country that has many times our population right next to us, and that we've gone to war with them several times in the existance of our country. With a perpetual border war since the last "hot" one. I'm sure to Pakistan it makes perfect sense.
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Post by Kanastrous »

Master of Ossus wrote:
Less than one percent of Pakistani children attend madrassas, according to UN figures. :roll:
41% of Pakistan's population is under 15.

Pakistan's population numbers about 150,000,000.

http://earthtrends.wri.org/pdf_library/ ... ou_586.pdf

41% of 150,000,000 is 61,500,000.

1% of 61,500,000 is 615,000.

Assuming that the proportion is *near* 1%, that's around 600,000 kids receiving one form or another, of religious programming masked as education.

If 1% of those kids come out of their madrassas radicalized and eager to get themselves some Paradisical Virgin Action, we've got an extra 6,000 potentially dangerous people turned out per year.

And 1% of that number, is several times the number of operators required to bring the 9-11 attacks to fruition.

Maybe someone will correct my math.

If they do, I'll actually feel better.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
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