Who else is sick of super sword-wielding babes?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-10-04 11:47pm

It *IS* a cinematic convention, though. It's not necessary, but people just LOVE to do it. I'm not really very pleased with the increased 'get her armour off' factor of Samus, for instance.

And y'know, anyone can break hard objects with their body, even cement. Swords still kill them dead, and armour still reduces the chance of injury. It's *still* stupid, until you're either Flash-fast or Superman-invincible.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2007-10-05 12:00am

Molyneux wrote:
Stark wrote:Ironically, 'berserker' type fighting is utterly retarded by itself. Get this guys: vikings had good armour. People running into combat in their underpants and no defence don't get +5 to attack, they get fucking murdered.

Unless they're Picts and freak out the poor Romans.
Keep in mind that Rachel (Should I just call her "Hart", to differentiate from the Ninja Gaiden one?) is at least durable enough to break quite hard objects with her face, with no injury. It's sort of a specialty of hers.

salm wrote:
Molyneux wrote:Doesn't he run around in full powered battle armor...with no helmet?
Yeah. But that´s not my gripe with him. Main characters not wearing helmets is necessary for cinematic effects.
Same reason why important people in War Hammer 40K don´t wear helmets.
Bull. Need I remind you of Halo? Or of Starcraft, where Jim Raynor never even leaves his vehicle? Or Darth Vader? Or, say, Metroid?

Well, in Jim's case, you do get to see his face whenever he speaks.

But I'm reminded of the third volume of the Appleseed Manga, where several characters are sent on a mission, and all are wearing identical suits of power armor. It's actually a little confusing, until you check the dialog, and notice that most of the suits do have small personalizations (such as markings on the helmet) that make it easy to identify them. And nothing obvious in the "That's the leader, shoot him!" sense (besides, the leader of the op was safely sequestered in an armored truck outside the operation zone).

But if you don't like battle bikinis, there's always the alternative: Cute Gothic Lolita outfits!

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-10-05 12:29am

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
VF5SS wrote:
Covenant wrote:
She also gets completely covered in goo. Remember that. Slick, glistening goo. On her knees.

After being attacked by a tentacle monster no less. Somehow young Ayane who has maybe five lines in the game is a much more interesting character (and better dressed). I'd rather they let you play as her instead of Rachel in the later versions of Ninja Gaiden. I see a lot of Rachel hate among Ninja Gaiden fans. Crazy German guy probably has more fans haha.
Didn't know they would sell a... xxx game for XBox. Or is this some earlier game?

Nope, that's the right game. Rachel gets attacked by some kind of tentacle critter and gets completely covered in what appears to either be some kind of clear industrial lubricant or the ectoplasm from Ghostbusters. It's totally blatant that you're supposed to find this somehow hot or something, but with her utterly deformed bodyshape and that way-too-strippery makeup it goes from being "disturbing and not sexy" to "laughably disgusting, and oh, a monster too." She's just not hot, and it was really gross that they thought she would be, or something. Probably why so many people had such a strong negative reaction to her.

Eulogy · Post by **Eulogy** » 2007-10-05 01:48am

SAMAS wrote:[But if you don't like battle bikinis, there's always the alternative: Cute Gothic Lolita outfits!

How does she lift the damn thing with only one arm?

Andrew_Fireborn · Post by **Andrew_Fireborn** » 2007-10-05 02:09am

She's probably some kind of robot, or "cyborg"... or something...

Then again... out-sized and inconveniant weapons aren't exactly rare in Japanese mass media...

Shinn Langley Soryu · Post by **Shinn Langley Soryu** » 2007-10-05 02:27am

Andrew_Fireborn wrote:She's probably some kind of robot, or "cyborg"... or something...

If you want a droid, it's Chachamaru you're looking for. As far as I know, Asuna Kagurazaka's 100% organic. *hasn't bothered keeping up with Negima*

It bears repeating: Just load up a Remington or Mossberg and start blasting. That'll take care of those pesky sword-wielding superwomen in an instant.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2007-10-05 03:14am

This discussion just reminded me of this pic:

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/7562 ... ss1dj2.jpg

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2007-10-05 04:11am

Eulogy wrote:How does she lift the damn thing with only one arm?

She's really strong.

With that answered, I must say that I've always found the ridiculously showy, high heeled fighting girl to be pretty much ridiculous. I actually did make a character just like that once, purely to make fun of it (it's an expression of vanity and arogance over common sense backed up with Patented Magic). If anything, I thought Nariko from Heavenly Sword was refreshing in that she didn't really have enormous breasts.

Also, on women in video games, one can't look past Alyx from Half-Life 2. Even if her puns are terrible, she's extremely divorced from the 'Lara Croft' styled heroine. She's about a thousand times more compelling too.

KlavoHunter · Post by **KlavoHunter** » 2007-10-05 04:23am

Molyneux wrote:Or of Starcraft, where Jim Raynor never even leaves his vehicle?

Actually, he hops in a Marine suit for an indoor mission. :eng101:

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2007-10-05 06:48am

Eulogy wrote:
SAMAS wrote:[But if you don't like battle bikinis, there's always the alternative: Cute Gothic Lolita outfits!
How does she lift the damn thing with only one arm?

Magic sword.

Losonti Tokash · Post by **Losonti Tokash** » 2007-10-05 09:02am

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
VF5SS wrote:
Covenant wrote:
She also gets completely covered in goo. Remember that. Slick, glistening goo. On her knees.

After being attacked by a tentacle monster no less. Somehow young Ayane who has maybe five lines in the game is a much more interesting character (and better dressed). I'd rather they let you play as her instead of Rachel in the later versions of Ninja Gaiden. I see a lot of Rachel hate among Ninja Gaiden fans. Crazy German guy probably has more fans haha.
Didn't know they would sell a... xxx game for XBox. Or is this some earlier game?

To clarify, she is not raped by a tentacle monster. IIRC, after a mini-boss fight she's talking to Ryu when giant tentacle monster busts in and swallows her whole. When Ryu kills it he slices it open and she spills out of its guts. Alive, obviously.

Ryushikaze · Post by **Ryushikaze** » 2007-10-05 10:01am

Darth Wong wrote:
Ryushikaze wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:For me, the straw that broke the camel's back was the advertising tagline for the new Heavenly Sword game: "Vengeance has never looked so beautiful". I remember looking at the TV and actually saying out loud "Oh for fuck's sake, what a load of bullshit."
Granted, that is bullshit, and a really stupid fucking tagline, but I don't think the heroine of Heavenly Sword is guilt of being an over the top battle babe, physically, at least. She's actually quite thin and toned, what one might expect from a warrior. Her hair is utterly ridiculous, though.
Since when do you expect a "warrior" to have a thin, straight nose, model-like face, and be "thin and toned"? I expect a "warrior" to be tough-looking, grizzled, solidly built, and have scars or a flattened nose or some other visible symptom of a life of violence. That should be true regardless of whether we're talking about a male or female.

If it were even more slightly realistic, yes, I'd expect Mariko to look like Baiken from Guilty Gear (Horrible scars, lost an arm to a childhood incident, replaced it with a rather unpleasant machine arm), but Heavenly Sword is a Zwee fighting chop socky. I'm not expecting a realistic warrior from chop socky. Hell, I'm surprised we got one as toned down as we did.

As is that sword, but at least it's got "teh magicals" to somewhat excuse the fact that it's an utterly implausible weapon.
"Beautiful" and "thin and toned" are good descriptions of a swimsuit model, not a "warrior", no matter what kind of sword he or she is using.

I'd always expect warriors to be physically well toned, and in shape, which for certain builts, translates as thin. Some people simply don't show the muscle they have. I do agree that beautiful is not something I normally associate with a warrior, but that's par for the course, and happens on both sides of the gender fence.

That said, Zwee Fighting chop socky. I heard of this game and thought the main character was going to be a lot more outrageous than she turned out to be. I'm not saying it's, or she, is good and realistic, but it's certainly better than I expected it to be.

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2007-10-05 10:02am

Eulogy wrote:
SAMAS wrote:[But if you don't like battle bikinis, there's always the alternative: Cute Gothic Lolita outfits!
How does she lift the damn thing with only one arm?

It is, very literally, a magic sword. It changes between that form and a giant (rigid) paper fan depending on her mental state, and only appears when she needs it.

It has enough weight to be an effective weapon, but I really doubt she's lifting all of the weight a metal sword of that size would have. Also, she's really strong.

Not as strong as the REAL Gothic Lolita, though.

RIPP_n_WIPE · Post by **RIPP_n_WIPE** » 2007-10-05 10:10am

Personally I'm tired of the, especially in fantasy games, the armor without a helm bit. What the heck? I can get it in 40k, main characters, sarges, captains, etc don't have them to distinguish them from their squad, who all have helmets. Halo did it the best, MC had a helmet, the arbiter had a helmet. But fantasy no one wears helms. I can get it for plot parts where there's dialogue, but in combat, put your damn helmet on. Hell the Romans had to re-engineer their helms against the thracians & dacians cause the falx and rhomphaia where crushing their skulls.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2007-10-05 10:17am

RIPP_n_WIPE wrote:Personally I'm tired of the, especially in fantasy games, the armor without a helm bit. What the heck? I can get it in 40k, main characters, sarges, captains, etc don't have them to distinguish them from their squad, who all have helmets. Halo did it the best, MC had a helmet, the arbiter had a helmet. But fantasy no one wears helms. I can get it for plot parts where there's dialogue, but in combat, put your damn helmet on. Hell the Romans had to re-engineer their helms against the thracians & dacians cause the falx and rhomphaia where crushing their skulls.

Because the human face is interesting. Usually moreso than a slab of metal. Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but there is something to be said for depicting people without helmets, especially when it can get difficult to identify them.

But how exactly do you figure "no one wears helms"? What sort of fantasy are you talking about, exactly? Even in the instances I can think of where helms are the least common (such as D&D-type adventure settings), usually The Paladin or the The Fighter will often have a big honking great helm or coif.

Julhelm · Post by **Julhelm** » 2007-10-05 08:28pm

I always preferred both Cate Archer and the female ninja from NOLF2. They actually look rather normal and act in a feminine, not-slutty way.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-10-05 08:32pm

NOLF2 made Cate significantly more sexualised, however. She got implants and all.

RazorOutlaw · Post by **RazorOutlaw** » 2007-10-05 08:42pm

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:But how exactly do you figure "no one wears helms"? What sort of fantasy are you talking about, exactly? Even in the instances I can think of where helms are the least common (such as D&D-type adventure settings), usually The Paladin or the The Fighter will often have a big honking great helm or coif.

I don't mean to speak for him, or to sound snide, but I'm guessing anime has that influence typically. And anything inspired by Conan in particular.

You're right about Western RPGS, most characters DO have a full set of gear.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-10-05 09:11pm

RazorOutlaw wrote:I don't mean to speak for him, or to sound snide, but I'm guessing anime has that influence typically. And anything inspired by Conan in particular.

Because anime has such a huge influence in western fantasy unlike Tolkien or D&D.

Zablorg · Post by **Zablorg** » 2007-10-05 09:49pm

This really should be made fun of in video-games...

Let's try NOT to steal bandwidth

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2007-10-05 10:44pm

It should be noted that the latest female character in Soul Calibur, Hilde, wears full plate armour.

Reference may be made to this. It is, apparently, a deliberate reaction to their common female costume designs.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2007-10-05 11:11pm

Note that Pete has made comments about the simularity between the main character in Sword of Heaven, and his character Oasis...

of course Oasis seems to survive getting killed on a regular basis, and only wields knives and pencils.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2007-10-05 11:54pm

Stark wrote:NOLF2 made Cate significantly more sexualised, however. She got implants and all.

More polygons to go around. Cate always had the goods in promo art. Also, tight jumpsuits.

Pulp Hero · Post by **Pulp Hero** » 2007-10-06 12:49am

General Schatten wrote:Wow, this thread reminds me of the problem that some Warhammer 40k players are having with people who want to model Female Space Marines or Cadians, the problem with the FSMs is that there's NO FEMALES in the Adeptus Astartes, the problem with the Female Guardsmen isn't that there are no chicks in the Guard, it's that they don't realize that a chick in full gear looks no different from another guy and they still insist on modelling FF-Cups and bulbous butts.

Reminds me of a conversation in the chow hall the other day.

"That guy really needs a haircut before 1SGT sees him."
"Uh."
"What?"
"That's a chick."
"Oh. Ohhhh."

Yes, I find the impractically dressed hottie to be good occasionally, but frankly to me a woman in full combat gear and dirtied up is far more attractive looking. Maybe I'm just weird, but to me that says a lot about their personality, mainly that they are aggressive and have a lot in common with "the guys".

RazorOutlaw · Post by **RazorOutlaw** » 2007-10-06 01:39am

General Zod wrote:
RazorOutlaw wrote:I don't mean to speak for him, or to sound snide, but I'm guessing anime has that influence typically. And anything inspired by Conan in particular.
Because anime has such a huge influence in western fantasy unlike Tolkien or D&D.

My mistake? Even then anime/JRPGS would be my next best guess for "type of fantasy game without helmet" if he's not talking about DnD or Tolkien. Both are popular influences.

RIPP_N_WIPE was pretty vague otherwise.