Did the Empire ignore certain worlds?

[Battlehymn Republic]

Another point- isn't it partly true that the Emperor needs the Rebellion as a threat in order to justify his hold to power and the militarization of the Empire? So perhaps occasionally some high-profile targets, such as Mon Calamari, are spared for some time so they can present a threat to security.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Still doesn't explain why after the huge fleet build up and still no nuke they'd tolerate it after Yavin proved they weren't an irrelevant threat.

What do you mean? Wasn't Mon Calamari on the top of the list of worlds to be "disciplined" by the Death Star?

In any case, the Rebellion did have most of their support from the Rim worlds, some of which had Separatist leanings during the last little civil war and they did become more overt after Yavin. The Bothans and a few others joined the Rebellion publicly, as did the Mon Cals.

[Illuminatus Primus]

What do you mean? Wasn't Mon Calamari on the top of the list of worlds to be "disciplined" by the Death Star?

And it was destroyed. Merely the political pressure to overwhelm Calamari and other openly supporting members of the Rebellion after losing something equivalent to 23 million ISDs would be insurmountable. I think there was a Quisling government on Calamari that paid lip service to being a loyal, compliant subject, whilest secretly sending ostensibly "civilian" cruisers to be armed in Rebel shadowports.

In any case, the Rebellion did have most of their support from the Rim worlds, some of which had Separatist leanings during the last little civil war and they did become more overt after Yavin. The Bothans and a few others joined the Rebellion publicly, as did the Mon Cals.

I don't Melan's group represented anything more than something like a "Government of the Bothan Nations for Resistance to Tyranny" or some other Bothan rebel group or government-in-exile. They came from Kothlis, not the Bothan central world of Bothawui (which collaborated with Palpatine in the Camaasi genocide). Also, why would the freighter Suprosa be sent there - even under Palpatine's or Xizor's ruse - if it was openly a Rebel world? It must've had an officially Imperial presence and administration, however ineffectual or corrupt or traitorous.

I think the old SW newspaper strips that first introduced Ackbar and the Mon Cals made them out to be something big. In fact, during their attack on Imperial blockade forces at the Vallusk Cluster, Imperial Admiral Griff and his staff are chocked to hear that the Mon Calamari have sided with the Rebels and are attacking.

Using that to say that Dac proper was capable of staving off invasion whilst openly and conventionally opposing the Empire is like saying that Iraq must be in a declared war against the United States because an Iraqi terror cell or even rogue military unit attacked U.S. forces in collusion with other terrorists. Modern nations and even tribes on our pre-sustained-space-flight Earth are not homogeneous hiveminded monoliths. Why should interstellar states and spacefaring species be any less heterogeneous? Its a more adequate, more plausible understanding for why Dac didn't get flattened.

Before the Death Star, a large revolt by member states proposes a possible conventional challenge to the Empire - so some pretense of courting member state compliance must be made. After, they can obliterate any suspected world with impunity. Hence disbanding the Senate and reorganizing the governance structure just as the Death Star became operational.

Its destruction would've been a powerful blow to the legitimacy and credibility of the Empire whilst also fomenting open rebellion by revealing the ultimate designs of the Empire. Previously compliant conservatives, federalists, and local nationalists or patriots would no longer be able to entertain credibly collaborationist politics in light of such a threat and without the Senate have no peaceful constructive avenue of resistance.

The massive conventional build-up after Yavin may have been in response to a feared flare-up of open civil war. I think that the pre-Yavin rebellion was definitely low-intensity, insurgent war, but I'm willing to entertain a reinterpretation of post-Yavin more as a more open war. I don't know if its plausible to me that it was open, Republic vs. Confederacy or Empire vs. New Republic civil war, but I think its very likely it intensified considerably.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I don't Melan's group represented anything more than something like a "Government of the Bothan Nations for Resistance to Tyranny" or some other Bothan rebel group or government-in-exile. They came from Kothlis, not the Bothan central world of Bothawui (which collaborated with Palpatine in the Camaasi genocide). Also, why would the freighter Suprosa be sent there - even under Palpatine's or Xizor's ruse - if it was openly a Rebel world? It must've had an officially Imperial presence and administration, however ineffectual or corrupt or traitorous.

I recall Fely'ya mentioning that the Bothans threw in their lot with the Alliance in hope of recovering evidence of the Camaasi genocide.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Still, they're a political race, it was credible that the Empire would route shipments through one of their colony worlds, and Fey'lya was from a lesser group being from that colony world. I'm sure he has vested interests, especially when he and his race are being accused of genocide and many are threatening war!

[VT-16]

Why should interstellar states and spacefaring species be any less heterogeneous? Its a more adequate, more plausible understanding for why Dac didn't get flattened.

The only problem is that just about every source dealing with Calamari, state that they operate from their planet/sector with the Calamari authorities in charge. Not just a militaristic faction.

If anything, the ANH novel explicitly refers to Alderaan's defenses as just as good as any in the central systems, which therefore showed the effectiveness of the Death Star even better. If a planet like that can afford at least passive defenses that stave off conventional attacks, I don't see why Mon Calamari can't have a wast defense network and a militarized society in the Rebellion era. Once they kicked out the Imps the first time with the ferocity they're attributed with, I don't think they'd suddenly stop arming themselves and hope the Empire would just let it pass.

Now the Calamari Sector itself appeared to have several safe havens for ship construction, thus spreading out production like you suggested. According to Wookieepedia, Krinemonen III had ship yards in orbit and served as a refuge for aquatic beings that fled the Empire.

The planet Ruisto also had small shipyards in orbit and was attacked by the Empire about three years after their ousting from Mon Calamari, with the entire population killed as revenge for the Empire's defeat. Now that is interesting, since you'd think the Empire would most likely target Mon Calamari if they wanted payback.

As an aside, the game Rebellion has Mon Calamari regiments, which are said to be among the best military units to protect against planetary bombardment. This would make sense if they had lots of experience protecting and strengthening Calamari's own defenses.

[Connor MacLeod]

[
You could have a lot of Dac-esque worlds who built shadow fleets or pre-militarized vessels in addition to defense forces permitted to each member state, who were waiting for a breakout attempt should Palpatine die or the Empire suffer a political crisis.

You could, except there would be a definite limit on how many such yards you could have. as I recall the loss of the Baji(c) Yards (first mentione din the ROTJ radio drama, but covered in other sources like SOTE later) was supposed to be a big loss ot them. If they had alot of small "hidden" yards that could produce huge numbers of ships, the loss of the Bajic yards wouldn't be such a big issue.

There's also the question of just how hidden these yards could remain, given probe droid spamming and the relentless hunting for Rebels that occurs post Hoth and up to Endor. I mean, I really doubt you could build big ships on the surfacee of the planet.

Anyhow, the only other yards they might possible have that are known are the Airam yards( which were meant to be a backup to the mon cal yards if lost, ,but were esablished no mroe than a few years ago as of ROTJ) and probably Sullust, given that Sorosuub was overthrown shortly before Endor (and it has its own shipbuilding capacity) Beyond that, we dont know, but its doubtful they have a large number of small yards or even many more large yards.

They could have been osteniably loyal, supporting the Rebellion on one hand with the other expression submission to Palpatine. These worlds could have declared for the Rebellion and immediately turned their mobilized forces against the Empire.

If we're going that route, the Rebels could just have acquired the defense forces and fleets of members who joined the Republic. (The Rebels would still need a strong core fleet to encourage people to join up and aid, though. As well as the other things I mentioned.)

I mean even relatively small polities - like the Cuitric Hegemony - have significant manufacturing capacity if the Pulsar Station hoax was plausible.

Ciutric is like something of a dozen inhabited worlds spread over a number of different systems. So relative to alot of the other powers in the galaxy its small. As I remember the Mon Cals might have only a couple of planets in a single system. I vaguely recall references to colonies but can find no evidence of it.

If many worlds having secretly fortified and prepared fleets, seceeded, and then immediately went to a war economy, they could provide a substantial temporary advantage if the Empire was sluggish to do the same for political, financial, or other reasons.

Again, where do they hide the fleets from the Empire? and if that is the assumption, why not assume they simply provide their own personal navies.
And again, it wouldn't address any of the pre-endor matters I mentioned.

[Illuminatus Primus]

[
You could have a lot of Dac-esque worlds who built shadow fleets or pre-militarized vessels in addition to defense forces permitted to each member state, who were waiting for a breakout attempt should Palpatine die or the Empire suffer a political crisis.

You could, except there would be a definite limit on how many such yards you could have. as I recall the loss of the Baji(c) Yards (first mentione din the ROTJ radio drama, but covered in other sources like SOTE later) was supposed to be a big loss ot them. If they had alot of small "hidden" yards that could produce huge numbers of ships, the loss of the Bajic yards wouldn't be such a big issue. I'm not suggesting these are full-scale yards. I believe in most cases the Empire either didn't know about these worlds' support or they were too well fortified and they didn't realize how comprehensive or large the support was. I believe without exception, almost all worlds part of the galactic community publically succeeding from the Empire and declaring allegiance to the Alliance would be crushed in relatively short order.

There's also the question of just how hidden these yards could remain, given probe droid spamming and the relentless hunting for Rebels that occurs post Hoth and up to Endor. I mean, I really doubt you could build big ships on the surfacee of the planet.

Anyhow, the only other yards they might possible have that are known are the Airam yards( which were meant to be a backup to the mon cal yards if lost, ,but were esablished no mroe than a few years ago as of ROTJ) and probably Sullust, given that Sorosuub was overthrown shortly before Endor (and it has its own shipbuilding capacity) Beyond that, we dont know, but its doubtful they have a large number of small yards or even many more large yards.

I'm not talking about open resistance, I'm talking about little here and there yards all over the place which re-arm and militarize secretly donated vessels from ostenibly loyal worlds - like Alderaan WAS. I am suggesting that Dac proper was officially loyal even if there was a large element which officially defected to the Rebellion (again like Alderaan) and the supposedly loyal government fortifies itself and sends support but keeps its head down and isn't openly hostile to the Empire. If not, why not simply locate Rebellion HQ at Dac? You have the same probe droid problem - just Dac being long-term defensible as an openly hostile conventional threat is inconsistent with the hiding Rebellion of the films; at least yards could be located in deep space away from a system where a HQ base could not be apparently.

After Endor, a lot of secretly supportive worlds simply go openly hostile, lynch the local fascists, and send their fleets to support the Rebellion conventionally.

If we're going that route, the Rebels could just have acquired the defense forces and fleets of members who joined the Republic. (The Rebels would still need a strong core fleet to encourage people to join up and aid, though. As well as the other things I mentioned.)

Not really. They'd need less support than your "open civil war" scenario. Simply having yards doesn't cut it - you need labor, capital, natural resources, energy resources. Not just manufacturing infrastructure. We know there was a lot of sympathetic worlds. All we need is that they see the Rebellion blow-up the DS2 (probably the realization they were committed to building a Death Star was a major political affront to member worlds), realize Palpatine is dead (for most the Empire was Palpatine, and there is no Empire without him), find the new political leadership ineffectual and indecisive and chaotic (it was, even before major Rebel action), and that the Rebels continue to have support and successfully rout opposition in the Outer Rim (which they did). Then they flip, and the conventional war begins.

There is no way that limited infrastructure and their resource, capital, and labor can compete with Imperial capacity. Better than Rebel victories, ineffectual leadership, and a loss of confidence, credibility, and legitimacy by the government leads to a large defection. I think many worlds, especially sympathetic ones before Endor, would think the Rebels had the most legitimacy in known space, being ostenibly democratic and ran by former Senators, while on Coruscant they have Palpatine's favorite lackeys and no sign of restored representation. Combined with their victories, they'd find the leadership competent and think revolt would be credible when it would not have been under Palpatine.

"Open civil war" has the same problems, but they are worse. How could so many worlds openly have allied with the Rebellion with the probe droids? With small yards? With a fleet - even taken at the max interpretation - much smaller than that of the Empire?

Ciutric is like something of a dozen inhabited worlds spread over a number of different systems. So relative to alot of the other powers in the galaxy its small. As I remember the Mon Cals might have only a couple of planets in a single system. I vaguely recall references to colonies but can find no evidence of it.

We do not know anything about the GDP/capita or population density or raw and energy resource availability of the Hegemony. We don't know enough based on developed worlds alone to understand their capacity one way or another.

Again, where do they hide the fleets from the Empire? and if that is the assumption, why not assume they simply provide their own personal navies.
And again, it wouldn't address any of the pre-endor matters I mentioned.

That's what I meant. They'd secretly supply ships and men to the Rebels' insurgency and low-intensity open conflict, and publically fortify their planets and build-up their fleets officially in compliance with Imperial doctrine, but with the future intent of revolting and turning their forces into a conventional opposition.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The only problem is that just about every source dealing with Calamari, state that they operate from their planet/sector with the Calamari authorities in charge. Not just a militaristic faction.

If anything, the ANH novel explicitly refers to Alderaan's defenses as just as good as any in the central systems, which therefore showed the effectiveness of the Death Star even better. If a planet like that can afford at least passive defenses that stave off conventional attacks, I don't see why Mon Calamari can't have a wast defense network and a militarized society in the Rebellion era. Once they kicked out the Imps the first time with the ferocity they're attributed with, I don't think they'd suddenly stop arming themselves and hope the Empire would just let it pass.

A planetary shield cuts you off from imports and exports - so if you're not a sustainable society you starve and even if you are you lose the ability to participate meaningfully in the outside society -, and we have no idea regarding their longevity. You cannot mine deep space; it is too big. (Otherwise you'd have grav wells larger than star systems, which they can navigate around just fine to get from Point A to Point B). The Alderaan example is both not pertient and is pertient. Alderaan was not publically an Alliance world, and while I don't doubt Dac defended itself, Alderaan-type defenses would've done nothing to protect its value: ship-building. I think Dac WAS like Alderaan in that it was publically subjugated, but privately recalcitrant. Or at least where the Empire had reasonable doubts and political concerns where they didn't feel secure in simply running in and curb stomping everything with overwhelming conventional force.

The planet Ruisto also had small shipyards in orbit and was attacked by the Empire about three years after their ousting from Mon Calamari, with the entire population killed as revenge for the Empire's defeat. Now that is interesting, since you'd think the Empire would most likely target Mon Calamari if they wanted payback.

Unless they reached some sort of public political solution with Dac and the Ruistoans were openly all political refugees hostile to the Empire.

As an aside, the game Rebellion has Mon Calamari regiments, which are said to be among the best military units to protect against planetary bombardment. This would make sense if they had lots of experience protecting and strengthening Calamari's own defenses.

That still doesn't mean that a single world could publically and credibly openly secede and stand up to a dedicated conventional assault by the Galactic Empire. I don't doubt they did build robust defenses, but I also doubt they publically denied compliance with the Empire. I don't think most Rebel worlds were openly in conflict with the Empire conventionally and officially - more like wink wink nudge nudge support and some sort of political plausible deniability. Admittedly a crapshoot against a state with the government principles of the Galactic Empire, but surely better than seceding openly. Either Dac was too minor or pointless to mess with, or it could plausibly deny Rebel support in order for the lack of Imperial conquest to be credible. If it was so well defended, why not put the Rebel HQ there instead of naked on some shithole like Hoth?

[VT-16]

It's not one planet, it's the entire Calamari Sector. The worlds with individual shipyards were all Calamari colony worlds.

Now, reading through Geonosis and the Outer Rim Worlds, which I believe is one of the latest books to deal with Calamari history. According to it, the Calamari first beat back the Imperial occupation force both on-world and off-world, sabotaging Imperial vessels brought in for repairs and maintenance and creating roving fleets to harass Imperial ships, using secret shipyards located underwater (!) and eventually joining the Rebel Alliance after some deliberation by the Calamari Council (primarily due to Quarren disagreement over making more deals with humans, not because of Imperial retaliation). After Yavin, they openly threw their support behind the Alliance.

This co-operation lead to the Rebels moving into the Calamari Sector with fleets tasked with defending it, and the Mon Cal shipyards turning out warships at "a dizzying speed" (guess that's a retcon of the "one cruiser in half a year" info).

The Empire, meanwhile, only harrassed the fringes of the sector, shying away from a showdown due to "fears of committing too many forces to such a remote region while the Rebels were causing trouble across the galaxy".

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

It's not one planet, it's the entire Calamari Sector. The worlds with individual shipyards were all Calamari colony worlds.

Now, reading through Geonosis and the Outer Rim Worlds, which I believe is one of the latest books to deal with Calamari history. According to it, the Calamari first beat back the Imperial occupation force both on-world and off-world, sabotaging Imperial vessels brought in for repairs and maintenance and creating roving fleets to harass Imperial ships, using secret shipyards located underwater (!) and eventually joining the Rebel Alliance after some deliberation by the Calamari Council (primarily due to Quarren disagreement over making more deals with humans, not because of Imperial retaliation). After Yavin, they openly threw their support behind the Alliance.

This co-operation lead to the Rebels moving into the Calamari Sector with fleets tasked with defending it, and the Mon Cal shipyards turning out warships at "a dizzying speed" (guess that's a retcon of the "one cruiser in half a year" info).

The Empire, meanwhile, only harrassed the fringes of the sector, shying away from a showdown due to "fears of committing too many forces to such a remote region while the Rebels were causing trouble across the galaxy".

All that in that book? I must have totally missed the "sector" part.

So essentially, they might have potentially a capacity almost as large as the Kuat sector? Is there any chance of getting the text?

[VT-16]

Yeah, at least in the CW era, it was considered on par with Fondor and Gyndine. When the Empire barged in after the Wars, they considered the ship yards a great prize. And the yards pumped out warships at a quick pace, all under the looming threat of Imperial retaliation. Even so, the Rebels moved into the whole sector with their ships.

Here's the relevant passages from the book:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a242/CptK/moncal1.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a242/CptK/moncal2.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a242/CptK/moncal3.jpg

[Connor MacLeod]

I'm not talking about open resistance, I'm talking about little here and there yards all over the place which re-arm and militarize secretly donated vessels from ostenibly loyal worlds - like Alderaan WAS.

Er, they knew Alderaan was disloyal. After it was blown up, the ANH novel revealed the fact that Alderaan was "as well defended as any planet in the Empire" and even indicated that the planet was a pimary source of munitions for the Rebels. Again, how are they going to hide the fact they're building and providing ships to the rebels "secretly?" Shipbuilding is not exactly a stealthy proposition, after all.

I will also note this still doesnt' address the fact that the Bajic Yards place a definite limit on how many of these little "supporter" shipyards the Rebels can count on. If they had that many (and they would have to be aware of them) the loss of the Baji(c) yards would hardly have been worth mention in the radio drama.

I am suggesting that Dac proper was officially loyal even if there was a large element which officially defected to the Rebellion (again like Alderaan) and the supposedly loyal government fortifies itself and sends support but keeps its head down and isn't openly hostile to the Empire. If not, why not simply locate Rebellion HQ at Dac?

Because identifying the location of the Rebellion High Command would be an open inviation to Palpatine sending in an assassin?

You have the same probe droid problem - just Dac being long-term defensible as an openly hostile conventional threat is inconsistent with the hiding Rebellion of the films; at least yards could be located in deep space away from a system where a HQ base could not be apparently.

Er, it is? Given the probable ranges of FTL sensors (based on communications ranges, ie subspace sensors), deep space is probably the worst place to hide them. Nevermind the fact that having them away from local resources will necessitate shipping said resources out to the systems (to say nothing of the crews, , supplies, and the other infrastructure you yourself pointed to.)

The Empire could get away with doing that, but I doubt the Rebels could on any large scale.

After Endor, a lot of secretly supportive worlds simply go openly hostile, lynch the local fascists, and send their fleets to support the Rebellion conventionally.

They could do that anyhow. They don't need to be "secretly building" ships for the Rebels. It would probably make more sense for them to simply "build up" their own defense fleets for that purpose anyhow. Nothing to hide.

Not really. They'd need less support than your "open civil war" scenario. Simply having yards doesn't cut it - you need labor, capital, natural resources, energy resources. Not just manufacturing infrastructure.

Which hampers my position how, exactly? You're right that they need more than just yards, but adding those to the equation greatly complicate the ability to "hide" yards (From the Empire, anyhow.) Not in the least it will lead to a great many more "sources" to be picked up on and tracked.

We know there was a lot of sympathetic worlds. All we need is that they see the Rebellion blow-up the DS2 (probably the realization they were committed to building a Death Star was a major political affront to member worlds), realize Palpatine is dead (for most the Empire was Palpatine, and there is no Empire without him), find the new political leadership ineffectual and indecisive and chaotic (it was, even before major Rebel action), and that the Rebels continue to have support and successfully rout opposition in the Outer Rim (which they did). Then they flip, and the conventional war begins.

You're right htat the DS2 and Palpy's death would be good motivators to gain recruits for the Rebels (possibly reasons for some of the post-Endor spin-doctoring we hear about in the X-wing novels) but I doubt that's enough for what you propose. I do question the extent of the "ineffectual/chaotic" command structure, given figures like Isard.

And even if there was chaos, ,the Imperial Fleet was still quite large and impressive and its unlikely the Rebels could have won many victories agianst it without having a strong fleet from the get go. Hell, alot of the warlords at that time were pretty damn powerful (Zsinj being the most immediate coming to mind, but I believe Grand Moff Kaine was active even then as well.) Any power contemplating rebellion is not going to be impressed by the Rebels having a tiny fleet when they're aware of what the Imperials/warlords could do to them. They'd want assurance of protection in exhcange for their support, after all.

This is probably mostly academic anyhow, since as far back as Yavin we know the Rebels had access to substnatial fleet assets (even if they weren't on par with the Empire, they still had far more ships than they deployed at Yavin. more than enough to form the sort of core fleet that could do the things they need to gain allies and fend off the Imperials/Warlords reasonably well.)

There is no way that limited infrastructure and their resource, capital, and labor can compete with Imperial capacity. Better than Rebel victories, ineffectual leadership, and a loss of confidence, credibility, and legitimacy by the government leads to a large defection.

I never said or implied the Rebels did. If they had it, they could have fought a conventional war against them (and the loss of a single yard ie bajic, or the hypothetical loss of the Mon Cal yards, would not have hurt them.) This is precisely why I question the idea that they had large numbers of secret, "allied" yards churning out ships for them, in fact. Shipbuilding was never a substantial means of adding to their fleets - defections were. (But defecting ships can't be replaced, of course.)

I think many worlds, especially sympathetic ones before Endor, would think the Rebels had the most legitimacy in known space, being ostenibly democratic and ran by former Senators, while on Coruscant they have Palpatine's favorite lackeys and no sign of restored representation. Combined with their victories, they'd find the leadership competent and think revolt would be credible when it would not have been under Palpatine.

"Open civil war" has the same problems, but they are worse. How could so many worlds openly have allied with the Rebellion with the probe droids?
With small yards? With a fleet - even taken at the max interpretation - much smaller than that of the Empire?

Okay you've lost me here. How would declaring for the Rebels and lending their own defense forces to aid the REbel's own fleets be a problem post Endor? I'm not saying they're doing this when Palpy is still alive, after all, so the probe droid issue is irrelevant there (I'm not even sure what the "post Endor" climate and such has to do with this either.) The whole point of mentioning hte probe droids was to highlight the problems of maintaining those "hidden" shipyards you were arguing about (It's actually a variation on the argument as to why there could be no naturally "unknown regions" in the Star Wars galaxy. Similar logic applies.)

We do not know anything about the GDP/capita or population density or raw and energy resource availability of the Hegemony. We don't know enough based on developed worlds alone to understand their capacity one way or another.

So why are we discussing it, then? Again, I find myself at a loss.

That's what I meant. They'd secretly supply ships and men to the Rebels' insurgency and low-intensity open conflict, and publically fortify their planets and build-up their fleets officially in compliance with Imperial doctrine, but with the future intent of revolting and turning their forces into a conventional opposition.

Except that as I've pointed out, I question whether one COULD hide their presence. Even Alderaan's munitions-supplying to the Rebels was found out eventually. Supplying warships (which arguably could be tracecd back much more easily to their source.) would be an even bigger giveaway.

[VT-16]

The Corellians were able to keep an entire shipyard hidden from the Galactic Alliance in the LOTF books. And that was one of the central systems in the galaxy.

[Connor MacLeod]

The Corellians were able to keep an entire shipyard hidden from the Galactic Alliance in the LOTF books. And that was one of the central systems in the galaxy.

Given the "Clone Wars" redux they seemed to be doing with that, its probably not exactly a surprise. The Separatists had done the same thing ot the Republic as well. Especially given that the Corellian sector and system are home to major shipyards of many types as it is, I'm sure hiding one more admist that (especially when they seek to actively keep secrets hidden) is not surprising. And that doesn't actually comment on the comptency or comparative access to resources that the GA has relative to the Empire.)

[VT-16]

That's true, but if you'd read the pages I provided from GATORW, you'd at least get some info on the Mon Calamari portion of the Alliance, though they don't represent the whole.

It says the Calamari Sector basically served as a big Alliance supplier of warships, given its localized mining colonies and decentralized shipyard facilities.

[Connor MacLeod]

That's true, but if you'd read the pages I provided from GATORW, you'd at least get some info on the Mon Calamari portion of the Alliance, though they don't represent the whole.

It says the Calamari Sector basically served as a big Alliance supplier of warships, given its localized mining colonies and decentralized shipyard facilities.

Resourcecs shouldn't be a problem regardless if they have asteroid fields (nevermind any airless moon or planet.)

And yes, I already read those passages. This probably reflects the strength of the sector's defensive strrength as a whole as much as its remoteness (And the difficulty of the Imperials to concentrate their assets sufficiently to punch through.) It also probably explains why Palpatine only intended to deal with the Mon Cals when he had a superweapon in hand (like the Death Star)

[VT-16]

Exactly.

And it is interesting to see the implied level of conflict having such a deterimental effect on Imperial forces, that for all their ships and armies, they get so bogged down on every level, they need a super weapon not as a status symbol, but as an actual practical military solution.

[Connor MacLeod]

I don't find it all that surprising, at least post Yavin. The Death STar was supposed to be the big thing Guaranteeing Palpatine's domination, something that could defeat or destroy the worst the galaxy could throw at it, and something noone would have any hope of matching before Palpy destroyed them back. I'm sure the kind of threat it represented was not lost on the member worlds of the Empire, particularily after Palpy had dissolved the Senate. And those people HAD to have possessed substantial military forces collectively, otherwise Palpy could just have steamrolled them with conventional naval forces.

Moreover, the Navy proper is not totally 100% loyal to Palpatine (well neither was the Death Star, but that's a different kettle of fish.) Oncce all hell breaks loose Palpy is naturally going to have his hands full s uppressing the outrage and uprising his actions would create.