American Veteran strikes back

[Kamakazie Sith]

I can understand somebody getting annoyed at seeing his national flag getting stamped on, set alight or pissed on, but that buffoon was acting well over the line and shouldn't have did what he did on private property simply because the Old Glory was displayed in a mildly inappropriate manner - why are Americans far more cartoonishly patriotic than any other developed Western country? We ourselves get deadly serious British patriots, but they're usually old and cranky...

Some people have family members, friends, etc who have died for that flag, and that's why they view it the way they do. I think they miss the idea that the flag represents by getting all pissed off, but it is easy to understand why people get so emotional over it.

It is just a piece of cloth, but at least it's something that we can all see, and has a real meaning behind it.

[Masami von Weizegger]

But "dying for that flag" is the same brand of jingoistic rubbish that calls on folks like this veteran to do these things.

No solider has died for that flag and if they literally did they didn't have a clue what they were fighting for. They have died protecting the people of the United States of America. They have died protecting American soil from attack and occupation. They have died protecting American foreign interests, be they noble or not. Each American soldier who has lost their life should have been fighting for something a little bit more substantial than the thought of Old Glory swinging high and free over a Mexican flag on the same pole even if that something was "because I was told to by a guy with a higher rank than me".

But to say that they simply "died for that flag" is a gross oversimplification, even if the family and friends of people who have died invest some much unwarranted emotion in it.

By the criteria mentioned, people have died for almost every flag of every nation on this planet. Yet, only America seems to encourage and nurture this, as mentioned above, cartoon style version of patriotism. It's this sort of attitude that has the American people and soldiers characterised as jingoistic morons even when it's not warranted.

[Kamakazie Sith]

But "dying for that flag" is the same brand of jingoistic rubbish that calls on folks like this veteran to do these things.

No solider has died for that flag and if they literally did they didn't have a clue what they were fighting for. They have died protecting the people of the United States of America. They have died protecting American soil from attack and occupation. They have died protecting American foreign interests, be they noble or not. Each American soldier who has lost their life should have been fighting for something a little bit more substantial than the thought of Old Glory swinging high and free over a Mexican flag on the same pole even if that something was "because I was told to by a guy with a higher rank than me".

The flag represents all what you just said to family, and friends. It's symbolic, so in their eyes when you disrespect that you are disrespecting their family and friends.

Again, I don't see it that way, but this is why people act in the manner that they do for a piece of cloth.

But to say that they simply "died for that flag" is a gross oversimplification, even if the family and friends of people who have died invest some much unwarranted emotion in it.

Oversimplification or not that is why people have an emotional interest in it.

By the criteria mentioned, people have died for almost every flag of every nation on this planet. Yet, only America seems to encourage and nurture this, as mentioned above, cartoon style version of patriotism. It's this sort of attitude that has the American people and soldiers characterised as jingoistic morons even when it's not warranted.

The flag is a big part of this culture, and I was just explaining why some people act this way. I wasn't justifying it.

[brianeyci]

I thought that soldiers died for their comrades, not for any lofty ideals. Band of brothers thing.

In which case "dying for the flag" is a naive oversimplication, even if the flag is a symbol for the nation. I am not a soldier, but it seems to me soldiers don't die for the nation or because some President tells them to. Soldiers die because they watch their friend's back and their friends watch their back. Soldiers don't seem a particularly more stupid group than average people and it's the only way to explain why they keep wanting to go back for tour after tour even if they don't believe in the cause.

Do soldiers really get pissed off when people descrate the flag more than say, descrate other just as important things? It seems it's the non-soldiers who place the most value in the symbol rather than the sacrifice.

[Aaron]

I thought that soldiers died for their comrades, not for any lofty ideals. Band of brothers thing.

In which case "dying for the flag" is a naive oversimplication, even if the flag is a symbol for the nation. I am not a soldier, but it seems to me soldiers don't die for the nation or because some President tells them to. Soldiers die because they watch their friend's back and their friends watch their back. Soldiers don't seem a particularly more stupid group than average people and it's the only way to explain why they keep wanting to go back for tour after tour even if they don't believe in the cause.

Do soldiers really get pissed off when people descrate the flag more than say, descrate other just as important things? It seems it's the non-soldiers who place the most value in the symbol rather than the sacrifice.

Soldiers as a group are like everyone else, they all have a variety of reasons why they do things. For some it's patriotism and love of the flag that keeps them going and for others it's not wanting to let your buddies down. Most of the soldiers that I've served with joined up with ideals like starry eyed patriotism but then the further along you get in your career it becomes more about your friends with a little bit of love for your country mixed in.

[Death from the Sea]

If a policeman lies and claims something is a federal felony when it isn't, isn't that, like illegal? Incompetent? What if he said that to some guy, who then decided to look it up and found out it was full of shit, and went to the courts? After all, the guy was just intimidated by an incompetent policeman! Regardless of whether it's just flags (which is amusing given the situation) it's all kinds of wrong.

wow, look at the hornets nest I started in here.

guys, I make false claims all day long, as long, as long as I don't take any action on it. As long as the false claims are not in court or in reference to any kind of official report, then there is no law(s) against it.

I never personally threaten to arrest the business owner in these scenarios. If they were to tell me to fuck off and say no, then oh well, I tried. As big as an asshole as I might sound like, I am actually a pretty laid back officer.

You also have to consider that many (if not all) of the people I speak of that I have that sort of contact with are here illegally, so they don't really get much respect or sympathy from me.

You also have to consider that it is not just me but every Tom Dick and Harry in this town that stops me and complains about it or actually calls police dispatch about it.

By the way, 95% of them fix the problem by just taking the US flag down and leaving the Mexico flag up. Which I am fine with, but puzzled by sometimes.

[Kamakazie Sith]

I thought that soldiers died for their comrades, not for any lofty ideals. Band of brothers thing.

Soldiers die for many things, and to many americans the flag represents those things. Why do I have to repeat this? Did you not read what I posted? It's a lot more than "Dying for the flag" in fact it is you who is oversimplifying it. The flag represents many things...

In which case "dying for the flag" is a naive oversimplication, even if the flag is a symbol for the nation. I am not a soldier, but it seems to me soldiers don't die for the nation or because some President tells them to. Soldiers die because they watch their friend's back and their friends watch their back. Soldiers don't seem a particularly more stupid group than average people and it's the only way to explain why they keep wanting to go back for tour after tour even if they don't believe in the cause.

Right, and to many the flag represents the sacrifices they've made. It represents their friends back.

Do soldiers really get pissed off when people descrate the flag more than say, descrate other just as important things? It seems it's the non-soldiers who place the most value in the symbol rather than the sacrifice.

Depends on the person. I personally don't, but I can understand why people would. It depends on what the flag represents to you. To me it represents the ideas behind the Bill of Rights. Which means that I should be free to do what I want with it, but to others it symbolizes something entirely different.

[General Zod]

guys, I make false claims all day long, as long, as long as I don't take any action on it. As long as the false claims are not in court or in reference to any kind of official report, then there is no law(s) against it.

Until someone decides to actually call you on your bullshit and ask for your badge number to file a complaint. Moron.

But thanks for reminding me why you can't trust the fucking cops in Texas.

I never personally threaten to arrest the business owner in these scenarios. If they were to tell me to fuck off and say no, then oh well, I tried. As big as an asshole as I might sound like, I am actually a pretty laid back officer.

Since when the fuck does a threat have to be blatant to be a threat?

You also have to consider that many (if not all) of the people I speak of that I have that sort of contact with are here illegally, so they don't really get much respect or sympathy from me.

You also have to consider that it is not just me but every Tom Dick and Harry in this town that stops me and complains about it or actually calls police dispatch about it.

I'm failing to see how that makes lying about a law acceptable behavior for someone who's supposed to be enforcing it.

[Raw Shark]

guys, I make false claims all day long, as long, as long as I don't take any action on it. As long as the false claims are not in court or in reference to any kind of official report, then there is no law(s) against it.

Well, at least you admit that you're a habitual liar.

I never personally threaten to arrest the business owner in these scenarios. If they were to tell me to fuck off and say no, then oh well, I tried. As big as an asshole as I might sound like, I am actually a pretty laid back officer.

If by "laid back" you mean "cautiously unethical" ...

[Death from the Sea]

Until someone decides to actually call you on your bullshit and ask for your badge number to file a complaint. Moron.

But thanks for reminding me why you can't trust the fucking cops in Texas.

let them it is not against the law. And I said that if they tell me no, then I don't argue it with them.

Since when the fuck does a threat have to be blatant to be a threat?

no, you don't understand. I actually say "I am not going to arrest you for it." I tell them it is a Federal Law enforced by them.

I'm failing to see how that makes lying about a law acceptable behavior for someone who's supposed to be enforcing it.

as long as I am not arresting them on a lie or writing a ticket on a lie.

oh and it should have been

guys, I CAN make false claims all day long, as long, as long as I don't take any action on it. As long as the false claims are not in court or in reference to any kind of official report, then there is no law(s) against it.

[Darth Wong]

In short, you're saying that you can get away with what you're doing, as if that makes it OK.

[CaptainChewbacca]

What the hell is America coming to where a police officer is proud of the fact that he can lie all day to make his job easier? Police are the people we hold up as honest and trustworthy to our kids. Does "If you're lost, find a policeman", sound familiar?

This is why people have no faith in police anymore.

[General Zod]

as long as I am not arresting them on a lie or writing a ticket on a lie.

oh and it should have been

guys, I CAN make false claims all day long, as long, as long as I don't take any action on it. As long as the false claims are not in court or in reference to any kind of official report, then there is no law(s) against it.

I don't suppose the words "abusing a position of trust" mean anything to you?

[Darth Wong]

If "Death From The Sea" was trying to make himself not look like a giant douche, he's failing miserably. "Hey guys, I can use my badge to intimidate and lie to people all day long, and you can't touch me! Nyaaa nyaa nyaa nyaaa nyaa!"

[Keevan_Colton]

If "Death From The Sea" was trying to make himself not look like a giant douche, he's failing miserably. "Hey guys, I can use my badge to intimidate and lie to people all day long, and you can't touch me! Nyaaa nyaa nyaa nyaaa nyaa!"

Come on, this is the guy who was excited that he might get to shoot looters, it's hardly the first hint he's given here that he's a douche who shouldnt have any badge that didnt come with breakfast.

[Darth Wong]

By the way, 95% of them fix the problem by just taking the US flag down and leaving the Mexico flag up. Which I am fine with, but puzzled by sometimes.

Maybe it means that you single-handedly convinced them that America is not the "Land of Freedom" that it's supposed to be, so they are no longer interested in proudly flying the flag of their adopted homeland. Congratulations.

[Frank Hipper]

What the hell is America coming to where a police officer is proud of the fact that he can lie all day to make his job easier? Police are the people we hold up as honest and trustworthy to our kids. Does "If you're lost, find a policeman", sound familiar?

This is why people have no faith in police anymore.

"Coming to"?

"Anymore"?

Most cops are not corrupt and abusive, if they were, things would be unbearable, but enough of them are...

If being the grandson of a cop who was active during late-prohibiton to early post-WWII gives me any insight, lemme tell you, cops were never, and should never be trusted by virtue of their being authorities alone; power corrupts, power attracts psychotics, and nothing in the civilian realm grants as much raw power to an individual as being a cop.

Death from the Sea's petty abuse demonstrates that perfectly... his stated ignorance of the law is an even more damaging indictment, too.

[Flagg]

I love how people like this can't seem to understand the difference between couldn't and shouldn't.

[Raw Shark]

Come on, this is the guy who was excited that he might get to shoot looters, it's hardly the first hint he's given here that he's a douche who shouldnt have any badge that didnt come with breakfast.

(Bolding mine) Indeed. Let's all sing "America - Fuck Yeah!" as we look back montage-style:

I hate that mentality about some police officers, "we are the professionals, we will protect you."

I will tell you that I personally and alot of people do not care about thugs killing thugs, and rightly so because that is less problems for us.

The pieces of shit that die, do so because they were overdosing on drugs already.

removing a need for reasonable suspicion or probable cause gives the officer too much power and will easily lead to being abused, and that will in turn backfire and cause guilty people to be found innocent due to such actions. I am not saying that all officers everywhere would abuse it because the majority would not. BUT it only takes a one instance where it is abused for the defense attorneys to use it everytime

Death from the Sea, though I thank you for settling the question beyond a doubt, I take no pleasure in being proven correct in my assessment of you as a remorseless uniform stuffed full of cowshit, getting its rocks off bullying the weak as long as it's safe. You, Sir, are a douche.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

no, you don't understand. I actually say "I am not going to arrest you for it."

So in other words you use phraseology that, coming from a cop, gives the very strong impression that you *could* arrest them for it, but you're simply choosing not to. The same way that a cop who pulled someone over for speeding, but decided to be a little merciful says "I'm not going to write a ticket for this."

In short: You threaten them. Thanks for proving yourself wrong, douche.

as long as I am not arresting them on a lie or writing a ticket on a lie.

So threatening to use force is okay as long as you don't actually end up using force? Wow, what a morally bankrupt, piece of shit you are. "Well, I *threaten* to beat the shit out of my girlfriend if she so much as looks at another guy, but I never actually do it, so that makes it okay."

guys, I CAN make false claims all day long, as long, as long as I don't take any action on it. As long as the false claims are not in court or in reference to any kind of official report, then there is no law(s) against it.

Wow, this may be the first time I've seen legalistic idiocy used in reverse here. Most of the time it's people going "It's moral because it's the law," instead, you're saying, "It's moral because it's not actually *against* the law."

I *can* get married, have children, and teach them from birth to be violently antagonistic towards cops. There are no laws against it, so by your logic, it must be perfectly okay. Even so, that analogy doesn't fully capture how much of an asshole pig you actually are because you're one of the ones charged with *upholding* the law and preserving public order and safety, meaning you should know far better than the average person not to abuse your position of trust.

[Stark]

Maybe it means that you single-handedly convinced them that America is not the "Land of Freedom" that it's supposed to be, so they are no longer interested in proudly flying the flag of their adopted homeland. Congratulations.

It's amusing that he sees it as a solution to the 'problem' (ps it isn't a problem) to have someone pushed AWAY from the United States flag. Now they're not flying it under their home countries' flag, THEY'RE NOT FLYING IT AT ALL. Push them into that fringe!

I want to know what this retard does when some guy says 'you know what, you're full of shit'. Does he taser them for noncompliance? Wave his fist impotently?

[Santiago]

I see the guy who cut down the Mexican flag as being the kind of guy who would jump at the oppritunity to 'serve his country' and shoot latinos. Even though all he did was remove the Mexican flag, it meant he had a big problem with the fact that it was there. This "Death from the Sea" guy seems to think the officer in question did the right thing. After all this is America, Habla inglés.

[Kamakazie Sith]

I want to know what this retard does when some guy says 'you know what, you're full of shit'. Does he taser them for noncompliance? Wave his fist impotently?

Well, assuming he's being completely honest he told us what he does. Nothing.

[General Zod]

Well, assuming he's being completely honest he told us what he does. Nothing.

Considering he has no qualms lying about petty shit like whether or not it's illegal to fly another flag over the US to gratify his own ego, you'll excuse me if some of us don't believe him.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

Well, assuming he's being completely honest he told us what he does. Nothing.

Considering he has no qualms lying about petty shit like whether or not it's illegal to fly another flag over the US to gratify his own ego, you'll excuse me if some of us don't believe him.

Considering the inconsistencies and backpeddling he's done, I wouldn't be surprised if this was nothing more than yet another case of internet dick-waving.