American Veteran strikes back

[Kamakazie Sith]

um, yes but that was me saying that in th future, not trying to say that is what I have done in the past. I am saying that I am no longer going to toss out the BS line since I now KNOW it is not against the law like I originally believed. So try to think before you misread my post to jump on me.

You're missing the point douchebag. It's your job to actually know whether or not something is a law before you attempt to enforce it. Not pull shit out of your ass when it suits you. I guess professionalism isn't very high on the list of priorities for Texas police.

Actually, judging an entire police department by the actions of one officer is frankly beneath anyone of reasonable intelligence.

[Kamakazie Sith]

I'm guessing it's because DSTS is assuming these people are illegal immigrants, probably based on their appearance.

I assumed he was actually verifying their status.

In a small town in Texas? He'd probably get applauded. That's precisely the problem; it is mob rule and he is either sympathetic to the mob or so unprincipled that he would never oppose it.

Sure, by the local people, but nationwide news would eat him alive.

[Stark]

the deduction that (some of) these people are here illegally comes from the way the act, what language they speak to me, their body language, their reaction to me in general.

People who don't like cops are clearly criminals!

I am not seeing where that came from but ok... Rolling Eyes

You lose. Judging people's immigration status by language, actions and reactions to police is pretty fucking lame.

You even admit 'some of', openly admitting that you DON'T restrict this abusive behaviour to illegals. You then go on to say...

aside from what I said before, most will actually admit it.

If only there was an appropriate authority to deal with this! Then you wouldn't have to abuse your power to cut them down to size on your patch!

I love the 'aside from what I said before'. Apparently, speaking Spanish and being wary of cops = illegal immigrant, but don't tell anyone, just abuse your power and undermine the whole concept of community policing.

[General Zod]

Actually, judging an entire police department by the actions of one officer is frankly beneath anyone of reasonable intelligence.

I'm sure Texas is such a beacon of upholding professionalism and being completely impartial.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Actually, judging an entire police department by the actions of one officer is frankly beneath anyone of reasonable intelligence.

I'm sure Texas is such a beacon of upholding professionalism and being completely impartial.

What does that have to do with judging an entire department off the actions of one officer who is enforcing something that isn't even a law in Texas?

[General Zod]

What does that have to do with judging an entire department off the actions of one officer who is enforcing something that isn't even a law in Texas?

And here I was under the impression that all officers were supposed to set examples for ordinary citizens. Dipshit's actions aren't exactly setting a very good one, are they? If you can't judge a public service like the police force by their representatives how the fuck else are you supposed to judge them? If we were talking about a private business you might have a point, but we aren't.

[Kamakazie Sith]

What does that have to do with judging an entire department off the actions of one officer who is enforcing something that isn't even a law in Texas?

And here I was under the impression that all officers were supposed to set examples for ordinary citizens. Dipshit's actions aren't exactly setting a very good one, are they? If you can't judge a public service like the police force by their representatives how the fuck else are you supposed to judge them? If we were talking about a private business you might have a point, but we aren't.

Nobody said his actions were setting a good standard, but that isn't an excuse to throw away objectivity and label and entire police department.

You judge an organization by looking at the entire department, and not by one person. That sort of judging is never acceptable, and I promise you that there wouldn't be a good organization on the planet if that was the standard.

[Illuminatus Primus]

the deduction that (some of) these people are here illegally comes from the way the act,

Like what? Like wetbacks? What do all illegal immigrants act like? Since there are East Asian illegal immigrants in the U.S., illegal immigrants from throughout Mexico (which includes many distinct ethnic groups, Spanish dialects, etc.), and illegal immigrants from throughout Central America? Tell me, what characteristics do all these varied ethnic groups, differing in appearance, and differing in their dialect share so definitively that you can pick it out with ease on the spot, and not mistakenly discriminate or harass a U.S. citizen or legal resident (whom you serve)?

what language they speak to me,

Ever been to South Florida? Plenty of identifiably Hispanic people speak with an accent or only Spanish who've never stepped out of the U.S. and have never been anything but American. The LAW (what you're out to enforce, not create) makes all languages have equal protection.

their body language, their reaction to me in general.

What kind of bullshit is this? Like there's no reason to be intimidated by a cop who abuses his authority and engages in routine racial profiling? Go fuck yourself.

Furthermore, like I don't have the right to make generalizations about your illiterate inbred ass because I guess a simple wetback like me is capable of more sophisticated behavior, thought, education, and fucking English language grammar than you? Good thing that racist cops intimidated my family members into raising me with good English! Learned better than you, apparently.

So maybe a fuck you to the people here calling me a racist or assuming that anyway is in order here. BUT that part of the thread is going in a different direction there so...

Broad generalizations about people when it comes to assuming as a police officer if they are protected by the law and making assumptions on those grounds is a great reason to call you at least an idiot, if not a racist.

[General Zod]

Nobody said his actions were setting a good standard, but that isn't an excuse to throw away objectivity and label and entire police department.

You judge an organization by looking at the entire department, and not by one person. That sort of judging is never acceptable, and I promise you that there wouldn't be a good organization on the planet if that was the standard.

Because it's not like there haven't been any other kinds of abuses of power down in Texas or anything. This assclown is just one of the latest examples of the problems down there.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Because it's not like there haven't been any other kinds of abuses of power down in Texas or anything. This assclown is just one of the latest examples of the problems down there.

Go ahead and give me the numbers, and tell me if you even reach 5% of the police force population in Texas. LOL

Your generalization is unreasonable because it is bias. Furthermore, you can find abuses of power in every state, and in every sort of occupation. Again, by your ridiculous standards there probably isn't a professional organization out there.

[General Zod]

Go ahead and give me the numbers, and tell me if you even reach 5% of the police force population in Texas. LOL

Your generalization is unreasonable because it is bias. Furthermore, you can find abuses of power in every state, and in every sort of occupation. Again, by your ridiculous standards there probably isn't a professional organization out there.

What part about the police being representatives of the government, and therefore held to higher standards than a private corporation do you not understand exactly?

[Tiriol]

their body language, their reaction to me in general.

What kind of bullshit is this? Like there's no reason to be intimidated by a cop who abuses his authority and engages in routine racial profiling? Go fuck yourself.

To continue Illuminatus Primus's point, it is actually rather likely that anyone might feel a little bit uneasy when a police officer comes to talk. Usually an officer of law does so only if there's something foul going on and the person being talked to is somehow connected or needs to be warned away. So even if Death from the Sea wouldn't apparently support abuse and misuse of authority and make subtle threats about possible legal consequences, there is no way to justify harassing someone just because his body language stiffens or becomes somewhat nervous when around a police officer in uniform. People actually try to act more respectful and well-behaved when seeing either a guard's uniform or a policeman's uniform in usual cases (which makes it somewhat hard to catch a petty thief in act of crime when wearing a uniform) - that there already is a change in manners. Not to mention that foreigners might have some greater respect (or fear) for figures of authority already in place.

[Big Phil]

Go ahead and give me the numbers, and tell me if you even reach 5% of the police force population in Texas. LOL

Your generalization is unreasonable because it is bias. Furthermore, you can find abuses of power in every state, and in every sort of occupation. Again, by your ridiculous standards there probably isn't a professional organization out there.

What part about the police being representatives of the government, and therefore held to higher standards than a private corporation do you not understand exactly?

I'm not taking issue with your premise that the police should be more professional, but I'm wondering what world you live in where the government is held to a higher standard than private corporations? If you're looking for lazy, inefficient, uncaring, unprofessional workers, government is rife with them for the simple reason that there is nobody to hold them accountable. Government organizations are massive, bureaucratic, inefficient, and uncaring, whether it is the IRS, the Department of Natural Resources, or the police. At least private corporations have to answer to their customers, and run the risk of going out of business if they don't maintain some level of customer service.

[General Zod]

I'm not taking issue with your premise that the police should be more professional, but I'm wondering what world you live in where the government is held to a higher standard than private corporations? If you're looking for lazy, inefficient, uncaring, unprofessional workers, government is rife with them for the simple reason that there is nobody to hold them accountable.

That's exactly the problem. If the lawmakers aren't willing to follow their own rules then why should anyone else? They're effectively sending the message that the laws they're supposed to enforce do not apply to them. Otherwise what's the point of having the law apply equally to everyone?

[General Zod]

I'm not taking issue with your premise that the police should be more professional, but I'm wondering what world you live in where the government is held to a higher standard than private corporations? If you're looking for lazy, inefficient, uncaring, unprofessional workers, government is rife with them for the simple reason that there is nobody to hold them accountable.

That's exactly the problem. If the lawmakers aren't willing to follow their own rules then why should anyone else? They're effectively sending the message that the laws they're supposed to enforce do not apply to them. Otherwise what's the point of having the law apply equally to everyone?

Ghetto edit: It also boils down to the amount of potential harm caused. The last I checked private corporations do not have the authority to completely seize someone's property, lock them in jail for years and otherwise ruin their livelihood.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Go ahead and give me the numbers, and tell me if you even reach 5% of the police force population in Texas. LOL

Your generalization is unreasonable because it is bias. Furthermore, you can find abuses of power in every state, and in every sort of occupation. Again, by your ridiculous standards there probably isn't a professional organization out there.

What part about the police being representatives of the government, and therefore held to higher standards than a private corporation do you not understand exactly?

I agree with you, but your interpretation of that is not reasonable. Police are held to a higher standard, but those standards are reasonable.

Saying that all the police in Texas are unprofessional because of the actions of a few police officers is not a reasonable standard. I don't know why you're having a hard time understanding this? You scream "Held to a higher standard" as if it automatically justifies your interpretation of it. There isn't a city, or county in the nation that has that same standard. I challenge you to find me one.

[General Zod]

Saying that all the police in Texas are unprofessional because of the actions of a few police officers is not a reasonable standard.

Point out where I said all the police were unprofessional. Oh yeah, I didn't. Saying it's not held in high regard means that it's not a high priority for them. Not that everyone is automatically unprofessional the whole time.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Saying that all the police in Texas are unprofessional because of the actions of a few police officers is not a reasonable standard.

Point out where I said all the police were unprofessional. Oh yeah, I didn't. Saying it's not held in high regard means that it's not a high priority for them. Not that everyone is automatically unprofessional the whole time.

Same difference. You're making that conclusion based off the actions of a few officers. Still, not a reasonable standard. Now, if you found that DftS department didn't care that he did that then I'd be completely behind you.

[General Zod]

Same difference. You're making that conclusion based off the actions of a few officers. Still, not a reasonable standard. Now, if you found that DftS department didn't care that he did that then I'd be completely behind you.

Going by DtfS's own words, he's already stated that he's one of the more laid back officers in his area. Remind me again how that reflects well upon the police force down there?

[Kamakazie Sith]

Same difference. You're making that conclusion based off the actions of a few officers. Still, not a reasonable standard. Now, if you found that DftS department didn't care that he did that then I'd be completely behind you.

Going by DtfS's own words, he's already stated that he's one of the more laid back officers in his area. Remind me again how that reflects well upon the police force down there?

I understood that to mean he's one of those officers that's more likely to let you off from a ticket, and not one of those that finds a place to hide and sleep. Doesn't matter though...

Even if he meant he was lazy it would only be reasonable to judge the entire department if they were OK with him being lazy, or did something, or didn't do something that facilitated his actions. If you have something that suggests this then please present it.

Keep in mind that depending on the size of city he's in supervisors can't reasonably be expected to babysit all their subordinates. That's why integrity is one of those core values that most police departments have.

The bottom line is I don't know how you can say an entire department doesn't value professionalism when you don't know how they'd react if they discovered what he was doing, and he's one of few that have displayed this lack of professionalism.

[Glocksman]

It's purely anecdotal, but my experience with the local PD's since I turned 18 back in 1985 have been all over the map.

During my one arrest (for stealing hubcaps as a prank back in 1985), the arresting officer was professional and honest in answering my questions WRT what'd happen to me* once I reached the jail.

While I didn't like going to jail, I bore him no ill will for doing his job,

Similarly, I once got pulled over by a state trooper for dong 115mph on US 41, but I didn't hold it against him both because I was guilty and because he wasn't an asshole about it when it he didn't have to be one.

OTOH, I got busted in 1987 for doing 55 in a 30 zone in front of a school, and the officer made a big production about it being a school zone and threatened to upgrade the ticket.

I told him to go ahead and do so, as any lawyer worth his salt would beat the ticket, as this was taking place at 1:30 AM on a Saturday morning and no children were present (as the warning sign indicated was needed to enforce the lower limit).

He didn't write the ticket for school zone speeding, but he did bust me for speeding 55 in the 30 zone, disregarding a stop sign (I did stop, but just try proving it in court), and a busted tail light.

Fortunately for me, this was my first traffic stop and the judge gave me defensive driving school and that resulted in all charges being dismissed and I only had to pay a $25 fee.


My lessons from these incidents are that while I shouldn't unnecessarily provoke a fight with the officer, I should stand up and argue when I think I'm being railroaded by a Barney Fife drunk on power.


If anyone's interested, it was the Indiana State Police who have been uniformly courteous and professional in my encounters with them, while my encounters with the Evansville Police Department have varied from officer to officer (the older ones were more professional and detached, while the younger ones tended to be more agressive).






*Charges dismissed upon completing the 'pre-trial diversion program' that the county offered for first time nonviolent offenders.

[Superman]

What kind of a fucking moron gets so incensed over a couple of flags in the wrong order that he commits acts of vandalism in righteous rage?

I'm going to pull this conversation back a little bit, since it's relevant.

Being a Californian, I see people's downright hostility toward Mexican people all the time. It's a strange issue; some people are so angry toward Mexicans being here that they don't even see them as humans. I recall a news story where some redneck beat a Mexican guy with a tire iron because he couldn't speak English. It's like people take them being here as a personal attack.

Seeing people get incensed over Mexicans living here is so common that I rarely notice it these days.

[Tsyroc]

It doesn't help when there are Mexican's going on about the reconquista, Azatlan, and how most of the American West really belongs to them already because they were here first and the US took it illegally.

I find all of those things annoying when I hear about them in the news but I've also never encountered a Mexican who was serious about any of them. Usually they are joking, giving me shit etc...but I bet there are some people who don't really interact with Mexicans or people who are of Mexican decent so this stuff just gives them another reason to have a chip on their shoulders when it comes to Mexicans.

[Stark]

In AU, I've never, ever encountered a cop that wasn't by the book and considerate, I've never even had a cop bust my ass when I'm in the wrong. Then again, I'm middle-class and white, and I don't get hauled off blind drunk or busted for huffing paint, so maybe I'm seeing the 'nice community policing'.

[Big Phil]

It doesn't help when there are Mexican's going on about the reconquista, Azatlan, and how most of the American West really belongs to them already because they were here first and the US took it illegally.

I find all of those things annoying when I hear about them in the news but I've also never encountered a Mexican who was serious about any of them. Usually they are joking, giving me shit etc...but I bet there are some people who don't really interact with Mexicans or people who are of Mexican decent so this stuff just gives them another reason to have a chip on their shoulders when it comes to Mexicans.

I get more than a little pissed at the Mexicans/Columbians/Puerto Ricans/etc. who view themselves as Mexican/Columbian/Puerto Rican/etc. first and American second. The most obvious examples are at soccer games (US vs. any Latin American country), where these clowns (many of whom are American citizens) root for the visiting Latin American team. I can understand the irritation against Hispanics who exhibit this behavior, since I share it myself (and I'm Hispanic). Of course to me it's just irritating, not the sort of thing that would make me beat someone with a tire iron.