Columbus Day

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2007-10-08 06:47pm

Zixinus wrote:Quick question regarding Colombus: how did he treat the natives? Was he a conquerer or an explorer?

He was a brutal conquerer and worked hundreds if not thousands to death looking for gold that did not exist. Even on his very first trip he abducted a dozen odd native to take back to Spain as proof of what he'd found, and a number died on the trip.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2007-10-08 06:50pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Elite Pwnage wrote:I'm pissed that I had school today and the nothern states didn't.
I don't remember ever getting school off for Columbus Day...

Well they take it off nowadays.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2007-10-08 07:08pm

What can I saw, it's just another 3-day weekend to me, same as Martin Luther King Day.

J · Post by J » 2007-10-08 07:40pm

Today is Thanksgiving Day, damnit.
This is a Canadian board, and we shall celebrate Canadian holidays!

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2007-10-08 07:49pm

Andrew_Fireborn wrote:I don't think anyone actually celebrates Columbus day... Aside from some schools having their history lessons about the man centered around the day in the lesser grades.

To most, it's either a day off or a collection of mediocre sales.

It's definitely celebrated by Italian-Americans, perticularly among the old-school set...why, I dunno.

You see, Columbus never wrote a word of Italian, even when writing to Italians.
He apparently wrote Catalonian Spanish, though, even when writing to Italians.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2007-10-08 09:28pm

Frank Hipper wrote:
Andrew_Fireborn wrote:I don't think anyone actually celebrates Columbus day... Aside from some schools having their history lessons about the man centered around the day in the lesser grades.

To most, it's either a day off or a collection of mediocre sales.
It's definitely celebrated by Italian-Americans, perticularly among the old-school set...why, I dunno.

You see, Columbus never wrote a word of Italian, even when writing to Italians.
He apparently wrote Catalonian Spanish, though, even when writing to Italians.

Alot of work has been put into figuring out the lineage of Mr. Columbus. I remember reading that the best conclusion thought he was a Catalonian pirate that had avoided capture.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2007-10-08 10:03pm

Columbus "discovered" the Americas, just like Calley "discovered" My Lai and Himmler "discovered" Babi Yar.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2007-10-08 10:13pm

^ Well said.

I also read recently that he and the Spaniards eventually knew damn well what they found, and that-far from dying penniless and ignorant as one version of the story goes--he was bequeathed the title of "Admiral of the Ocean Sea," which is to this day carried by a descendent.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-10-08 10:30pm

Zixinus wrote:Quick question regarding Colombus: how did he treat the natives? Was he a conquerer or an explorer?

Columbus once ordered his men to cut the babies out of a group of mothers' wombs and crush their skulls while the mothers lay bleeding to death in agony, as a public demonstration to remind the natives of who's in charge.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-10-08 10:31pm

I was taught that bogus "discovered the world was round" bullshit. Of course everyone who was in the least bit educated already knew that looong before Columbus was even born. Incidentally, the story about the learned people of his time mocking him is pretty true. He insisted that the Earth was about 1/3 smaller than they had calculated. They were pretty much correct and if it hadn't been for North and South America being here, he'd have died from starvation.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-10-08 10:36pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Zixinus wrote:Quick question regarding Colombus: how did he treat the natives? Was he a conquerer or an explorer?
Columbus once ordered his men to cut the babies out of a group of mothers' wombs and crush their skulls while the mothers lay bleeding to death in agony, as a public demonstration to remind the natives of who's in charge.

But if you mention this, then you're racist against Italians.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2007-10-08 10:48pm

J wrote:Today is Thanksgiving Day, damnit.
This is a Canadian board, and we shall celebrate Canadian holidays!

This board is hosted in America, and we shall celebrate American holidays!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-10-08 10:53pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
J wrote:Today is Thanksgiving Day, damnit.
This is a Canadian board, and we shall celebrate Canadian holidays!
This board is hosted in America, and we shall celebrate American holidays!

Sorry, but you still lose. Canadian Thanksgiving is a much better holiday than Mass-murdering Asshole Day.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2007-10-08 11:39pm

Darth Wong wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:
J wrote:Today is Thanksgiving Day, damnit.
This is a Canadian board, and we shall celebrate Canadian holidays!
This board is hosted in America, and we shall celebrate American holidays!
Sorry, but you still lose. Canadian Thanksgiving is a much better holiday than Mass-murdering Asshole Day.

Terrorist!

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2007-10-08 11:44pm

Darth Wong wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:
J wrote:Today is Thanksgiving Day, damnit.
This is a Canadian board, and we shall celebrate Canadian holidays!
This board is hosted in America, and we shall celebrate American holidays!
Sorry, but you still lose. Canadian Thanksgiving is a much better holiday than Mass-murdering Asshole Day.

Bah, screw you!! I'll top your willy nilly Canadian 'holiday' with Mass-murdering Asshole Day and Kill All The Natives Day in November for good measure.

Dark Flame · Post by **Dark Flame** » 2007-10-09 12:14am

I just thought of an Adventures in Odyssey (a Christian radio show) episode about Columbus. They spent an hour talking about what a great Christian he was, and how he did soooo much good for everybody. Figures.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2007-10-09 12:20am

They spent an hour talking about what a great Christian he was, and how he did soooo much good for everybody.

If you're a devout Christian, it doesn't matter if you're an asshole. Mother Teresa, Columbus, the Popes...

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2007-10-09 01:14am

One of the first things Columbus said when he heard of the natives was a remark about how stupid and trusting they were, how they would make for a supple workforce.

Like most of the later Conquistadors, he was one the ethical dregs of society, barely better than a common criminal.

Phantasee · Post by **Phantasee** » 2007-10-09 01:24am

I heard he used his almanac to predict a lunar or solar eclipse, and timed his arrival to coincide with it. Then he convinced the natives that the gods were angry, and by giving him food and supplies the gods would be pleased.

Conveniently, the eclipse lifted as soon as they agreed. If that's not clever, I don't know what is.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2007-10-09 04:44am

Phantasee wrote:I heard he used his almanac to predict a lunar or solar eclipse, and timed his arrival to coincide with it. Then he convinced the natives that the gods were angry, and by giving him food and supplies the gods would be pleased.

Conveniently, the eclipse lifted as soon as they agreed. If that's not clever, I don't know what is.

It was a lunar eclipse.

Once I heard a news report talking about the L'Anse-aux-Méduses colony. They correctly stated that the Vikings were the first Europeans to sail to America, but then said they were "only there to plunder", unlike Columbus, who was "an explorer".

Blood boiled.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-10-09 05:18am

Bounty wrote: It was a lunar eclipse.

Once I heard a news report talking about the L'Anse-aux-Méduses colony. They correctly stated that the Vikings were the first Europeans to sail to America, but then said they were "only there to plunder", unlike Columbus, who was "an explorer".

Blood boiled.

Of course. Don't you know that all things the Vikings ever did was plundering? It's their job description, man!

I have come to realize that most people have no understanding of history at all, drawing their knowledge from movies and computer games. Those who bother to read anything, even wiki fucking pedia are in the clear minority. They can't even be bothered to google a topic they're interested in, much less go to a library and check out a book or two.

It's obvious when you try to talk with people about any historical period. It's usually a collection of myths, misconceptions, outright lies or everything mixed together. And the worst thing is that everybody's an expert, and just won't shut the fuck up when they're wrong.

Metatwaddle · Post by **Metatwaddle** » 2007-10-09 05:27am

My school always got the day off through high school, but I guess it's not a state holiday, since I'm at a state university now and we don't get the day off. I guess they're too politically correct, which... well, I can't fault them for it, really.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2007-10-09 05:52am

And the worst thing is that everybody's an expert, and just won't shut the fuck up when they're wrong.

Yeah. Just want to second that.

hongi · Post by **hongi** » 2007-10-09 08:46am

I hear Columbus' arrival was one of the most momentous ecological events in the past few thousand years. He introduced tons of new species from the New World to the West, as well as brought in pests through ballast water/soil.

So not only did he herald in a new era of colonialism, he was also a cross-ecological explorer...who helped screw up the environment. Yay.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-10-09 09:23am

hongi wrote:I hear Columbus' arrival was one of the most momentous ecological events in the past few thousand years. He introduced tons of new species from the New World to the West, as well as brought in pests through ballast water/soil.

So not only did he herald in a new era of colonialism, he was also a cross-ecological explorer...who helped screw up the environment. Yay.

I really don't think that Columbus screwed the environment all that much with his travels. It's certainly nothing compared to the kind of industrial-scale devastation that moden civilization can inflict.

European ecosystems adjusted just fine to all these new species, and remained quite stable for the next five centuries.