Predator vs. Boba Fett

[Vympel]

I'll have to wait until I can go through the whole sequence in slow-motion to make a definative comment on it: that'll be the weekend when my girlfriend is at work. If the subway fight does indeed show bullets ricocheting from unarmored spots on the Pred, here's an alternative explanation straight from the novelization. The novel describes bullets in that scene bouncing off the the Predator's armor and skin. This might seem odd in light of the Pred in the first movie being hit in the leg by Mac and bleeding on that leaf, but in that scene the Pred is shot at with a rifle that would have more power behind the bullet than a handgun. Again, it's just a theory: I'll have to look at the scene again and watch where the bullets are observed to impact. Rotten.com has an autoposy photo of what a shotgun wound from 10 feet away looks like: the Pred's injuries in the second film don't look nearly as severe, which may corroborate it's skin being tougher than a man's.

On the shotgun issue, that could be the case, or Danny Glover could've been using solid slugs, don't know.

By the way, I'm almost certain that Mac hit the Pred with the rifle he was carrying and *not* the minigun.

That's true. He wasted all the minigun ammo, he only scored a hit with his own gun. I have it on DVD.

[Slartibartfast]

His armour you shout at my deafened ears? Would Boba even WEAR the armour on 20th century earth? He'd be able to blend in better without it

Let's see... remove uber armor and be defenseless, or put on a trenchcoat over it. Remove armor... wear trenchcoat... remove armor... I think I'd go with the trenchcoat.

This is a stalemate between two equally biased sets of fans and by the looks of this thread its WW1 fan-boy style.

So while you people continue assailing each others wall of ignorance I'm going to go and get a beer.

Oh geez, yet another person saying that these debates are pointless! What's the world coming down to...

[Slartibartfast]

I've found out that there's an even larger anti-Fett sentiment than pro-Fett fanboyism... I mean to the point that people will scream "Fett will lose because I hate him!", now that is quite pointless.

[Slartibartfast]

You used to beat up kids with six of your freinds holding them down didn't you? And brag about it afterwards?

In this case, though, it seems that the little kid ended up beating up the six thugs, didn't he?

[Slartibartfast]

If I could rent the DVD numbnuts I would.

Well cry me a fucking river... too bad that there's this little thing that we like in debates called evidence, and you have the burden of proof, which means that it is you who must present it. So shape up or ship out, and stop trying to pull a DarkStar.

[Slartibartfast]

By the way, I'm almost certain that Mac hit the Pred with the rifle he was carrying and *not* the minigun.

I'm pretty sure that he finds Jesse's body, grabs the minigun and starts a shooting at the greenish ghost, then his friends arrive and start shooting in the same direction, and they clear a pretty big section of jungle. This until the minigun runs out of bullets, at which point the black dude keeps spinning it for quite a while.

[Vympel]

I'm pretty sure that he finds Jesse's body, grabs the minigun and starts a shooting at the greenish ghost, then his friends arrive and start shooting in the same direction, and they clear a pretty big section of jungle. This until the minigun runs out of bullets, at which point the black dude keeps spinning it for quite a while.

He sees the Pred (eyes flash) he screams and starts firing with his LMG- it hits predator in the leg as he's running away. He drops his gun, picks up the minigun, and goes apeshit- rest of the squad arrives and goes apeshit too. Unfortunately, no one hits him after the first hit by the Sarge.

[Darth_Shinji]

If I could rent the DVD numbnuts I would.

Well cry me a fucking river... too bad that there's this little thing that we like in debates called evidence, and you have the burden of proof, which means that it is you who must present it. So shape up or ship out, and stop trying to pull a DarkStar.

I've provided the evedence. I've decribed the scene as accuratly as possible. Anyone of you who thinks I'm lying could go check and post what he sees. Now this is just a tatic to make me conceed becuase you guys can't find holes in my logic. And why would I be dishonest about something from an old as hell movie? Unlike whats been said I'm not a fanwhore and I'm not the one who said someone is blantly lying and doesn't even have decency to aplogize... Thats the actions of a fan-whore (that and flaming when you feel like you are losing).

[DocHorror]

Mac runs in sees Blane dead, sees the Predators eyes flash, brings up his gun to shoot, the Predator runs, Mac wings it in the leg, we see blood on the leaves, he drops his gun, picks up the minigun and starts shooting, the rest of the squad show up & toast the folliage...

Proof the Predator cloak is not bullet-proof...

Again later on in the film Arnold sets off an explosive close to the predator, a few shots later we see blood...obviously the Predator was injured in the blast...

Shouldnt a bullet proof shield (one that by is very nature be proof against kinetic impacts) have protected the Pred against shrapnel...

& doesnt a bullet proof shield sound rather unsporting?

[Hotfoot]

I've provided the evedence. I've decribed the scene as accuratly as possible. Anyone of you who thinks I'm lying could go check and post what he sees.

Describing things from memory is not evidence, it's testimony. The longer it's been since you've seen the thing in question, the less likely your memory is going to be accurate. Fact is, now it's a moot point, and until one side or the other provides something more solid than "well, as I recall" neither side can be believed over the other. However, since it is your claim, it does in fact fall to you to provide evidence to support your point. If you can't provide any real evidence, you should just conceed the point. Otherwise, you are making a (say it with me now) baseless claim.

Now this is just a tatic to make me conceed becuase you guys can't find holes in my logic. And why would I be dishonest about something from an old as hell movie? Unlike whats been said I'm not a fanwhore and I'm not the one who said someone is blantly lying and doesn't even have decency to aplogize... Thats the actions of a fan-whore (that and flaming when you feel like you are losing).

First off, you don't have to be lying to be wrong about something that you are only working from memory on. The fact that you're so amazingly adamant about the accuracy of your memories and your lack of ability to confirm that with evidence is likely what is causing so much friction. You are basically demanding that you are right, but you don't have any evidence to show that you are, and not allowing for any fallibility of your memory. They are asking you for proof, man. Your failure to provide any does not help your position at all.

For your reference, here is a phrase which will help you out in future discussions:
"Well, I recall [effect/event/conflict] occuring in [subject of discussion], but it has been a while since I have [reviewed] [subject of discussion], so I might be mistaken. I will go back and [review] [subject of discussion] at my earliest convenience. In the meantime, if anyone else could check to see if I am mistaken by [reviewing] [subject of discussion] to search for the [effect/event/conflict] that I recall to see if it is really there or not. Until then, let us move on to what can be appropriately discussed in detail."

[Darth_Shinji]

Why must everone run to the first film after its blantly apperent that the Pred 2 had more tech? Its like saying "Look at this one it can't do that. So that one can't do it ethier. I don't care you have evedence."

I'm going to find info on the Preds. Prehaps a better explaination exists for the subway scene.

[DocHorror]

More tech, yes...if you mean a few fancy toys to keep the viewing public interested...

Better tech, not necessarily...

Just because he has a few extra toys doesn't mean that the cloaks working principles have changed dramatically...

[Darth_Shinji]

I've provided the evedence. I've decribed the scene as accuratly as possible. Anyone of you who thinks I'm lying could go check and post what he sees.

Describing things from memory is not evidence, it's testimony. The longer it's been since you've seen the thing in question, the less likely your memory is going to be accurate. Fact is, now it's a moot point, and until one side or the other provides something more solid than "well, as I recall" neither side can be believed over the other. However, since it is your claim, it does in fact fall to you to provide evidence to support your point. If you can't provide any real evidence, you should just conceed the point. Otherwise, you are making a (say it with me now) baseless claim.

This was two days ago. How do you expect me to post this when I've stated that I'm incapable to do so? And others on this board have made claims of the first movie showing that a pred gets hurt. Why are you not asking them to post screen caps? I know the scenes exist and would expect myself to go find the info if I did care enought.

Now this is just a tatic to make me conceed becuase you guys can't find holes in my logic. And why would I be dishonest about something from an old as hell movie? Unlike whats been said I'm not a fanwhore and I'm not the one who said someone is blantly lying and doesn't even have decency to aplogize... Thats the actions of a fan-whore (that and flaming when you feel like you are losing).

First off, you don't have to be lying to be wrong about something that you are only working from memory on. The fact that you're so amazingly adamant about the accuracy of your memories and your lack of ability to confirm that with evidence is likely what is causing so much friction. You are basically demanding that you are right, but you don't have any evidence to show that you are, and not allowing for any fallibility of your memory. They are asking you for proof, man. Your failure to provide any does not help your position at all.[./quote] I'll conceed that reasoning. However I do have a copy that I checked and do know I'm not working on memory. This debate is turning into flames anyway and I don't even belive it would save a pred from a blaster anyway, Just that everone is going "Its not" and I go "Well, explain this then" and then they go "look at pred 1" and I go "Pred 2 has already shown remakable difference" and so on. The reason I'm not allowing fallibiltity in my memory is becuase I have watched the movie just a day ago and can watch that scene anytime I want.

And just from the refrence I have worked on memory, been wrong about something, and adimited it. In this thread. My claims might be forceful but that is becuase I'm not working on memory.

your reference, here is a phrase which will help you out in future discussions:
"Well, I recall [effect/event/conflict] occuring in [subject of discussion], but it has been a while since I have [reviewed] [subject of discussion], so I might be mistaken. I will go back and [review] [subject of discussion] at my earliest convenience. In the meantime, if anyone else could check to see if I am mistaken by [reviewing] [subject of discussion] to search for the [effect/event/conflict] that I recall to see if it is really there or not. Until then, let us move on to what can be appropriately discussed in detail."

Most of these debates take place on peoples word. I hardly scene screen shots get used. But I will keep this in mind in the future and thank you for this.


By the way gentleman and fan-whores. There is a website that I found claims that small calibar bullets will not pentrate the Preds skin and it seems that this is there explanation for the subway scene. So while my evidence exists my conclution is wrong or at least one of many. So I'm leaving this point alone if you al will.

[Slartibartfast]

I've provided the evedence. I've decribed the scene as accuratly as possible. Anyone of you who thinks I'm lying could go check and post what he sees. Now this is just a tatic to make me conceed becuase you guys can't find holes in my logic. And why would I be dishonest about something from an old as hell movie? Unlike whats been said I'm not a fanwhore and I'm not the one who said someone is blantly lying and doesn't even have decency to aplogize... Thats the actions of a fan-whore (that and flaming when you feel like you are losing).

You have "provided" Jack and Shit. And Jack just left town.

You have only mentioned evidence, and we are all supposed to assume that you aren't imagining it, because you refuse to show screenshots, or rent a DVD or whatever, and then have the * (don't know the english word) to claim that it is unfair for us to demand that you show us the famous anti-bullet cloak.

And crying that "people is flaming because they know they're wrong!" is one of many famous DarkStar tactics, and it gets you and us nowhere. You make up shit (like saying that there is a force field around the pred, which isn't backed up with anything, and even your so-called "evidence" is dubious and inconclusive) and are we supposed to be nice and happy while you bullshit us?

[Darth_Shinji]

I've provided the evedence. I've decribed the scene as accuratly as possible. Anyone of you who thinks I'm lying could go check and post what he sees. Now this is just a tatic to make me conceed becuase you guys can't find holes in my logic. And why would I be dishonest about something from an old as hell movie? Unlike whats been said I'm not a fanwhore and I'm not the one who said someone is blantly lying and doesn't even have decency to aplogize... Thats the actions of a fan-whore (that and flaming when you feel like you are losing).

You have "provided" Jack and Shit. And Jack just left town.

Still funny. But unimagintive on your part.

You have only mentioned evidence, and we are all supposed to assume that you aren't imagining it, because you refuse to show screenshots, or rent a DVD or whatever, and then have the * (don't know the english word) to claim that it is unfair for us to demand that you show us the famous anti-bullet cloak.

So you are going to hold me to this request and not your fellow warsies? Fasinating. And I haven't refused anything. I'm simple incample at the moment of doing so. Maybe if I do get the opptuninty to I will get it eventaully. More for my sake then your trollish tatics. I will be sure to post said screen shot.

And crying that "people is flaming because they know they're wrong!" is one of many famous DarkStar tactics, and it gets you and us nowhere. You make up shit (like saying that there is a force field around the pred, which isn't backed up with anything, and even your so-called "evidence" is dubious and inconclusive) and are we supposed to be nice and happy while you bullshit us?

How is it dubios? None of you people attack the scene yourselves... Just say I need to post it and take advantage of the fact that I can't. I'm sure you would post it if you found the scene to not follow my description of events. But you can't so you call me a darkstar becuase I can't do a rather unreasonble request for something as insiginfigate as this past-time anyway. But I would if I could.

[Vympel]

So you are going to hold me to this request and not your fellow warsies? Fasinating. And I haven't refused anything. I'm simple incample at the moment of doing so. Maybe if I do get the opptuninty to I will get it eventaully. More for my sake then your trollish tatics. I will be sure to post said screen shot.

You made the claim, you back it up. It is not up to the otherside to disprove your asinine claims, especially when the canon contradicts it (Predator 1), and you are relying on the *memory* of a scene on a pitch black speeding train.

[Darth_Shinji]

So you are going to hold me to this request and not your fellow warsies? Fasinating. And I haven't refused anything. I'm simple incample at the moment of doing so. Maybe if I do get the opptuninty to I will get it eventaully. More for my sake then your trollish tatics. I will be sure to post said screen shot.

You made the claim, you back it up. It is not up to the otherside to disprove your asinine claims, especially when the canon contradicts it (Predator 1), and you are relying on the *memory* of a scene on a pitch black speeding train.

Heat vision dumb ass. And if you would read my other posts numb-nuts you would relise this point is over.

[Vympel]

Heat vision dumb ass. And if you would read my other posts numb-nuts you would relise this point is over.

If you had left it alone, maybe I would have, your backhanded concession of the point notwithstanding.

As for heat vision- I am fascinated to know the rationale by which looking at things from the Predator's point of view gives you a revelation as to where the other guy's bullets were going .... especially considering that where he 'draws a bead' and where his bullets end up going on a DARK SPEEDING TRAIN are totally different things. Dumbass.

More for my sake then your trollish tatics. I will be sure to post said screen shot.

Yes SD.net flamewarriors, providing evidence for a claim is a 'trollish' tactic.

[Darth_Shinji]

Heat vision dumb ass. And if you would read my other posts numb-nuts you would relise this point is over.

If you had left it alone, maybe I would have, your backhanded concession of the point notwithstanding.

As for heat vision- I am fascinated to know the rationale by which looking at things from the Predator's point of view gives you a revelation as to where the other guy's bullets were going .... especially considering that where he 'draws a bead' and where his bullets end up going on a DARK SPEEDING TRAIN are totally different things. Dumbass.

Glad to know you watched it instead of countineing this stupidity. And I would think a person could tell that a gun was pointed at them. And you could tell he was hitting the pred when he was standing up.... A more unstable position on a moving train then being on one knee.

Yes SD.net flamewarriors, providing evidence for a claim is a 'trollish' tactic.

When you yourself don't do the same thing you want others to do? Yes.

[Vympel]

Glad to know you watched it instead of countineing this stupidity. And I would think a person could tell that a gun was pointed at them. And you could tell he was hitting the pred when he was standing up.... A more unstable position on a moving train then being on one knee.

Of course the gun was pointed at him. Of course the bullets were hitting the Predator. That doesn't give you any reason to assert that his cloak must be bulletproof, especially when you can't even see where the bullets are actually hitting.

When you yourself don't do the same thing you want others to do? Yes.

Burden. of. Proof.

[Darth_Shinji]

Glad to know you watched it instead of countineing this stupidity. And I would think a person could tell that a gun was pointed at them. And you could tell he was hitting the pred when he was standing up.... A more unstable position on a moving train then being on one knee.

Of course the gun was pointed at him. Of course the bullets were hitting the Predator. That doesn't give you any reason to assert that his cloak must be bulletproof, especially when you can't even see where the bullets are actually hitting.

Look at it this way. You agree the bullets are dead center right? Now of course he is arming up a little. But all of the Preds armour is on his face and shoulders.... And he is 7 feet tall. He couldn't possible be aming that far up when is is kneeing down. He is either hitting the lower stomach or his chest. More likly the lower stomach. And its been agreed on already that that scene shows it. Just more likly that his skin is imperviose to small calibar bullets.

Burden. of. Proof.[/quote]What? I gotta prove your not posting and expect me too?




Another thing to anyone really. Whats has more energy a lighting bolt or a blaster? Is him shugging off a lightning bolt mean anything to a blaster bolt.

[Darth Wong]

Shinji, the "burden of proof" is on anyone who claims the EXISTENCE of a given capability. Your ignorance of logic does not change this fact.

You are claiming bulletproof cloaks. The burden of proof is on you. You do NOT have the right to make vague claims based on recollection and then demand that your opponents go out and do the work to disprove them. Until then, your claims are all worthless.

From now on, everyone just respond to Shinji's bullshit by saying "you have presented no evidence."

[SirNitram]

Lightning Bolt vs. Blaster Bolt? Blaster bolt. One need only look at the effects of each to determine which is worse. If you don't understand, look at a lightning bolts effect on an inert material, like the stuff blasters routinely blow torso-sized chunks out of.

[Durandal]

If I could rent the DVD numbnuts I would.

Not my problem. If you don't have access to proper evidence to back up your claims, then don't bother making them, or try and find someone who can provide captures of the scene in question. It's one thing to say, "Obi-Wan's lightsaber is blue" without providing screen captures, because everyone else has the same recollection. In this case, you are the only person in the thread who mentions this "bullet-proof cloak" idea, so provide the fucking evidence, you little twat.

As far as I'm concern you are making highly unreasonable request considering anyone thinking that I'm a lyier can rent that movie and see that scene for itself.

It's unreasonable to demand that you provide visual evidence for your claim? This reminds me of when DarkStar/Scoot would debate Kynes on ASVS, and Kynes would repeatedly demand that Scoot provide screenshots to back up his claims. Scoot claimed that Kynes was being unreasonable by asking him to spend $4 on a DVD rental. In other words ...

"STOP MARGINALIZING ME!!!"

My blockbuster doesn't even carry the vhs version. I'm realying on a copy that I made awhile back. I've gave a clear placement of that scene I am using as evidence. You are mearly ingnoring the point by using the fact that I am unable to post it for your lazy asses as a... what? If I'm wrong go get the dvd and prove I'm wrong I've provided an accurate description of that scene. Go fuck yourself.

Jesus Fucking Christ, if you have a copy, then post some fucking screen captures of it! Once again:

IT'S NOT MY FUCKING JOB TO RUN OUT AND DISPROVE CLAIMS FOR WHICH NO EVIDENCE HAS BEEN PROVIDED.

Do your own fucking research, you little twat. If I tried to pass off this "I've provided an accurate description" bullshit when I calculated Jango Fett's jetpack acceleration, everyone would have jumped all over me to provide screen captures so that the calculations could be independently verified. Even if your recollection of the scene is correct, what you think is evidence of some bullet-proof cloak could be something totally different, and that's why you do the responsible thing and let other people look at your evidence. You can't just make bold proclamations like, "I saw this scene, and I remember a bullet-proof cloak, so it must be true." I could just end this moronic exchange in a stalemate by saying, "I watched the scene in question, and I didn't see a bullet-proof cloak, so go out and disprove me if you think I'm wrong," and it would have exactly the same amount of validity as what you're saying: none. I'm getting fucking sick of your stupid little DarkStar-like evasions.

[Darth_Shinji]

Shinji, the "burden of proof" is on anyone who claims the EXISTENCE of a given capability. Your ignorance of logic does not change this fact.

You are claiming bulletproof cloaks. The burden of proof is on you. You do NOT have the right to make vague claims based on recollection and then demand that your opponents go out and do the work to disprove them. Until then, your claims are all worthless.

From now on, everyone just respond to Shinji's bullshit by saying "you have presented no evidence."

Well, we now know you skim responses and don't even relise I've agreed its more likley that his skin is mearly resestant to small calbar bullets and I don't even think either effect would stop a blaster. I contuned to see you contunied to flame even though they won... But I hardly ecepted you to miss it. Allwell to err is human.