Games where the heroes' power is unacknowledged

[Praxis]

Has anyone noticed how common this is?

Random farmboy saves the world, defeats most powerful being in existance, then goes to live the rest of his life as a mediocre farm boy.

I haven't played FF7 but I got the impression that Cloud and his friends saved the world, beat the crap out of Sephiroth, and then went back to being a delivery boy.

For example; any Zelda games. After saving the world in Ocarina of Time, Link goes back to live out his life as a little boy again, then rides to another land on Epona where he continues to be treated like a child.

Wind Waker Link saves the entire universe from Ganondorf and leaves him dead at the bottom of the ocean; then he sails off, and in Phantom Hourglass the first old man he meets insists on forcing him to learn how to use a sword and everyone acts like they've never heard of him.


Why are the acts of a hero never remembered in games? How come every time a character defeats someone that everyone else is afraid of because that person is oh-so-powerful, nobody gives the hero props for being the most powerful person in the game?

http://www.awkwardzombie.com/comic50.png



One of the most interesting exceptions I've had is MegaMan Battle Network 3 (the ONLY good game in the series, and possibly my favorite GBA game). I beat the game and it was pretty standard, but they had this whole other world for after you had finished the game where you could go into the underworld (not literal, but more an underground crime ring type place) and beat the living crap out of everyone and if you did everything, performed every side quest in the game, earned every unlockable, then you'd accidentally unlock someone so powerful that he made everyone else in the game go around crying in fear.

If you beat him (I'm referring to Bass GS/Omega, one of the hardest bosses ever made, even if you have maxed out stats in every way), essentially the entire criminal underworld acknowledges you as the most powerful person in the universe and you're pretty much considered king of the world (and are in fact crowned king).

Of course, if you then go and beat the last boss (who is so much weaker than Bass Omega that you can now do it without breaking a sweat), the ending has you depowered so you won't be all powerful in the next game.

To give you an idea of how much work I'm talking about to get this, though; when I mentioned to the producer of Megaman for the US that "I beat Bass Omega", he did a double take, looked at me strangely and said, "Wow, you're seriously hard core!"

[Bounty]

What other sort of ending would you expect, then? The "happily ever after" has been a staple of fiction since before the written word and in a fantasy setting, there's little more "happy" than having the hero live on his picturesque farm.

And it's not all that odd that saving the world isn't always acknowledged. You cite LoZ, but in those games there's the question of how much the people from the sequel know about what happened in the original; some random yokel in Termina can't be expected to know of a battle that happened in an alternate timeline of a parallel universe.

I think you'll need a lot more to back up this idea, to be honest.

[Dooey Jo]

Yeah, it wouldn't exactly be a great story if a random farmboy from Iowa managed to shoot Hitler in WW2 and as a reward was made king of Germany. Returning home to his loved ones, on the other hand... What kind of hero would he really be if he accepted to rule everything? He wouldn't be a hero at all, he'd basically be a conqueror. He'd be the tragic bad guy in the sequel.

[Thanas]

The BG series did an excellent job in portraying your character as immensely powerful and widely recognized as a hero, starting from getting statues and even allowing yourself to become a god.


But then again, RPGs of that sort have somehow died out, being replaced by NWN crap.

[Uraniun235]

If you end the game on top, where do you go up from there for the next game?

[BountyHunterSAx]

I never did get the feel that Megaman/Lan were given proper recognition after BN3; especially since you could enter the underworld before the game ended, and though the Secret Area was barred to you, didn't you have to still go there to learn more about 'S'?

On an off-topic note; BN3 was probably my most-played game for the GBA. I logged well over a thousand hours, and had 4 of every chip in every code (yes, including virus chips; i beat the game 8 times). Was an active member (heh; one of the Veterans actually) on the Gamefaqs BN3:Blue boards - but then I slowed down and haven't been there in a while. Still, in my prime; i wrote an FAQ on good folder-building...so when you say it's hardcore to beat Bass Omega; I totally *totally* know what you're talking about.

-AHMAD

[RazorOutlaw]

Link always had a new storyline, or timeline, or whatever. Metroid is the one that made me curious typically, especially since the SNES version of Metroid had her recount the events of the first game.

So, what happened to her equipment? I guess that's where imagination would come into play: she pawned it or lost it somehow.

[Vendetta]

In most Metroid games the suit gets disabled or otherwise fragged at the start of the mission, and built up again from there.

[RazorOutlaw]

Hmm, quick question: Did that happen at the beginning of Metroid Prime at least? I think I recall using missiles in the beginning but after that I'm drawing a blank.

[Adrian Laguna]

In Morrowind by the time you're Nervarine people are speechless and shocked when they see you. You're a living legend. The guards still call you "scum" though, apparently they're all ignorant morons.

[Praxis]

Link always had a new storyline, or timeline, or whatever. Metroid is the one that made me curious typically, especially since the SNES version of Metroid had her recount the events of the first game.

So, what happened to her equipment? I guess that's where imagination would come into play: she pawned it or lost it somehow.

When I talked about Zelda, though, I was referring to the Zelda games that WERE in the same continuity. WindWaker/Phantom Hourglass have the same Link, but nobody has ever heard of him or cares about him. Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask, same deal...although Link DID travel to an alternate universe so that can be excused.


Metroid at least gets recognition. In Metroid Prime 3 Samus is regarded as the most feared Bounty Hunter in the galaxy because of her previous actions.

A lot of RPGs have the main character saving the entire known universe, and nobody cares or treats that person with any more respect.


In Metroid there's normally an explanation; for example, in Prime you start out with some stuff and take damage and lose it. Same for Prime 2. But other times, there is absolutely no reason Samus has lost all her items.

In Morrowind by the time you're Nervarine people as all speechless and shocked when they see you. You're living legend. The guards still call you "scum" though, apparently they're all ignorant morons.

That's exactly what we should see more often.

[Stark]

If you end the game on top, where do you go up from there for the next game?

Oh noes powercreep!

[General Zod]

If you end the game on top, where do you go up from there for the next game?

See: God of War & God of War 2.

[Stark]

Come on, some of us don't play anything on PS2 bar Singstar. What'd they do? Isn't Kratus the ultimate win by the end of GoW?

[Covenant]

In Metroid there's normally an explanation; for example, in Prime you start out with some stuff and take damage and lose it. Same for Prime 2. But other times, there is absolutely no reason Samus has lost all her items.

I always figured that the Galactic Federation confiscated her extra non-regulation gear. Sort of a "Good job for killing the badguys! Now we're taking all this alien tech so we can research it and fuck you over eventually with parasites and shit. Weyland-Yutani-Halliburton Conglomocorp recognizes your achievements! Consider yourself a Hero."

I doubt the US government would let me keep all the cool alien stuff I'd pick up if I saved the world.

[NeoGoomba]

Theres always Legacy of Kain. After going 99% of the way to saving the world, the once-noble hero says "fuck it" to the notion of self sacrifice, and choses to rule the world with an iron fist. In later games he is shown as a near demi-god as his powers continue to grow.

[Masami von Weizegger]

If you end the game on top, where do you go up from there for the next game?

Dragon Ball Z it.

You've defeated the ultimate evil that threatened to destroy the known universe and replace it with pure unmitigated evil. But, wait! Here comes another, more ultimate evil, threatening to destroy the known universe and replace it with pure unmitigated evil even more.

[General Zod]

Come on, some of us don't play anything on PS2 bar Singstar. What'd they do? Isn't Kratus the ultimate win by the end of GoW?

Kratos has his powers stripped by the Gods after saying "fuck them" one too many times, so he's given a second shot by the Titans (eternal enemy of Olympus) for a another chance. So basically he goes from being one pantheon's pawn to another's.

[Master of Ossus]

The BG series did an excellent job in portraying your character as immensely powerful and widely recognized as a hero, starting from getting statues and even allowing yourself to become a god.


But then again, RPGs of that sort have somehow died out, being replaced by NWN crap.

Even in the Infinity Engine games, that was pretty unique. In IWD, for example, even though your company is made of heroes you get the feeling that the Ten Towns get saved by some new hero every couple years, and that they literally aren't big enough to worship your greatness enough (the scale of IWD1 is GINORMOUS, where you fight two immensely powerful demons and their armies, yet the Ten Towns are pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things). In Planescape Torment, everyone was (ironically) off in their own little world, and sort of assumed that everyone around them was ridiculously powerful (which they pretty much were). No one was concerned with how powerful your party was. On the other hand, HotU for NWN was pretty hugely epic, although NWN sucked. I'm also pretty impressed with MotB, so far.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Well, Torment gets a pass for being, well, Planescape. It's not as if Nameless One was that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. A night hag, a fallen deva, yadda yadda yadda, par for the course on the Outer Planes.

[GuppyShark]

It sounds more like a console problem to me. Every game with a sequel I can think of has recognition for the deeds and feats accomplished in the previous - JC Denton merged with an AI and guides the new character in Deus Ex 2, Baldur's Gate 2 has the character attain and deal with godhood, etc etc, KOTOR2 made a point of referencing the original game's events, etc, in HL2 Gordon Freeman is viewed as a near messianic figure, etc.

[Trogdor]

I think U235 had the right of it. The hero returns to square one because it makes the sequel easier to make.

Though in most of the examples you gave, Praxis, it made sense that the hero didn't become a superstar afterwards.

The FF7 crew fought Sephiroth in a crater. Nobody was there to see them, and ShinRa was pretty much still in charge of the world at the end. They're not going to make heroes out of AVALANCHE.

Link wasn't in Hyrule in Majora's Mask. It's unclear how far away Clock Town and the neighboring lands were, but it's not impossible that it was far enough that they hadn't heard of him. It's unclear why he lost the items, though perhaps it was a result of Zelda turning back time at the end of OoT.

In Phantom Hourglass...uh...
link (not mine)

[Qwerty 42]

In the case of Zelda, Link's exploits in OoT hardly go unnoticed: Link is the basis of an entire island culture in The Wind Waker, and has a huge marble statue in Hyrule Castle.

In the case of Ocarina of Time, it's implied that there's a much bigger operation going on while Link is storming Ganon's Castle, so it may be that Hylian soldiers in hiding were aware of Link.

However, in Twilight Princess, it's a theme throughout the story that no one, with the exception of Zelda and Midna, know what Link is doing.

In the case of Metroid, Samus is also fairly well known, at least in Corruption. A number of marines mention that it's an honor to meet her when she speaks to them.

[Covenant]

In Phantom Hourglass...uh...
link (not mine)

Just a note, that's exactly what Praxis linked to in his OP.

[Trogdor]

D'oh!