U.S. demands air passengers list 3 days in advance

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
Ace Pace
Hardware Lover
Posts: 8456
Joined: 2002-07-07 03:04am
Location: Wasting time instead of money
Contact:

U.S. demands air passengers list 3 days in advance

Post by Ace Pace »

Holy fucking asstards. There goes an end to picking up tickets on the last day at cheap prices.


Under new rules proposed by the Transport Security Administration (TSA) (pdf), all airline passengers would need advance permission before flying into, through, or over the United States regardless of citizenship or the airline's national origin.

Currently, the Advanced Passenger Information System, operated by the Customs and Border Patrol, requires airlines to forward a list of passenger information no later than 15 minutes before flights from the US take off (international flights bound for the US have until 15 minutes after take-off). Planes are diverted if a passenger on board is on the no-fly list.

The new rules mean this information must be submitted 72 hours before departure. Only those given clearance will get a boarding pass. The TSA estimates that 90 to 93 per cent of all travel reservations are final by then.


The proposed rules require the following information for each passenger: full name, sex, date of birth, and redress number (assigned to passengers who use the Travel Redress Inquiry Program because they have been mistakenly placed on the no-fly list), and known traveller number (once there is a programme in place for registering known travellers whose backgrounds have been checked). Non-travellers entering secure areas, such as parents escorting children, will also need clearance.

The TSA held a public hearing in Washington DC on 20 September, which heard comments from both privacy advocates and airline industry representatives from Qantas, the Regional Airline Association, IATA, and the American Society of Travel Agents. The privacy advocates came from the American Civil Liberties Union and the Identity Project. All were negative.

The proposals should be withdrawn entirely, argued Edward Hasbrouck, author of The Practical Nomad and the leading expert on travel data privacy. "Obscured by the euphemistic language of 'screening' is the fact that travellers would be required to get permission before they can travel."

Hasbrouck submitted that requiring clearance in order to travel violates the US First Amendment right of assembly, the central claim in John Gilmore's case against the US government over the requirement to show photo ID for domestic travel.

In addition, the TSA is required to study the impact of the proposals on small economic entities (such as sole traders). Finally, the TSA provides no way for individuals to tell whether their government-issued ID is actually required by law, opening the way for rampant identity theft.

ACLU's Barry Steinhardt quoted press reports of 500,000 to 750,000 people on the watch list (of which the no-fly list is a subset). "If there are that many terrorists in the US, we'd all be dead."

TSA representative Kip Hawley noted that the list has been carefully investigated and halved over the last year. "Half of grossly bloated is still bloated," Steinhardt replied.

The airline industry representatives' objections were largely logistical. They argued that the 60-day timeframe the TSA proposes to allow for implementation from the publication date of the final rules is much too short. They want a year to revamp many IT systems, especially, as the Qantas representative said, as no one will start until they're sure there will be no further changes.

In addition, many were concerned about the impact on new, convenient and cash-saving technologies, such as checking in at home, or storing a boarding pass in a PDA.

One additional point, also raised by Hasbrouck: the data the TSA requires will be collected by the airlines who presumably will keep it for their own purposes – a "government-coerced informational windfall", he called it.

The third parties who actually do much of the airline industry's data processing, the Global Distribution Systems and Computer Reservations Systems, were missing from the hearing.
®
Brotherhood of the Bear | HAB | Mess | SDnet archivist |
User avatar
Spyder
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4465
Joined: 2002-09-03 03:23am
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Contact:

Post by Spyder »

Does this just international travelers or domestic flights as well? I'm sure there are plenty of examples where someone will suddenly need to be somewhere else with little notice. Doctors, technical experts, businessmen ect come to mind.
:D
User avatar
Aaron
Blackpowder Man
Posts: 12031
Joined: 2004-01-28 11:02pm
Location: British Columbian ExPat

Post by Aaron »

Funerals come to mind to. When my Grandfather died, I had two days notice.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
Image
User avatar
General Zod
Never Shuts Up
Posts: 29211
Joined: 2003-11-18 03:08pm
Location: The Clearance Rack
Contact:

Post by General Zod »

Spyder wrote:Does this just international travelers or domestic flights as well?
Under new rules proposed by the Transport Security Administration (TSA) (pdf), all airline passengers would need advance permission before flying into, through, or over the United States regardless of citizenship or the airline's national origin.
Looks like everyone. I expect a lot of angry customers over this rule.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
User avatar
Gil Hamilton
Tipsy Space Birdie
Posts: 12962
Joined: 2002-07-04 05:47pm
Contact:

Post by Gil Hamilton »

That's baloney. What kind of dumb logic is that to make people book flights more than 3 days in advance or they can't fly? What about emergencies and funerals and such?
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet

"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert

"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
User avatar
DPDarkPrimus
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 18399
Joined: 2002-11-22 11:02pm
Location: Iowa
Contact:

Post by DPDarkPrimus »

So essentially, if your flight gets cancelled, you cannot get a replacement flight for three days.

Briliant.
Mayabird is my girlfriend
Justice League:BotM:MM:SDnet City Watch:Cybertron's Finest
"Well then, science is bullshit. "
-revprez, with yet another brilliant rebuttal.
User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37390
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB

Post by Sea Skimmer »

I have a growing suspicion that someone in the TSA really likes passenger liners and is going everything they can to make them come back into favor.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Adrian Laguna
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4736
Joined: 2005-05-18 01:31am

Re: U.S. demands air passengers list 3 days in advance

Post by Adrian Laguna »

The Register wrote:The TSA estimates that 90 to 93 per cent of all travel reservations are final by then.
Do they think the other 10 to 7 percent are last minute vacation plans? A good chunk of the last minute reservations are important shit, that's why they're last minute!
Pelranius
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3539
Joined: 2006-10-24 11:35am
Location: Around and about the Beltway

Post by Pelranius »

I hope someone in the White House or DHS has a sudden attack of common sense, though with our recent luck...

At least it'll reduce green house emissions, I hope.
Turns out that a five way cross over between It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the Ali G Show, Fargo, Idiocracy and Veep is a lot less funny when you're actually living in it.
User avatar
Flagg
CUNTS FOR EYES!
Posts: 12797
Joined: 2005-06-09 09:56pm
Location: Hell. In The Room Right Next to Reagan. He's Fucking Bonzo. No, wait... Bonzo's fucking HIM.

Re: U.S. demands air passengers list 3 days in advance

Post by Flagg »

Adrian Laguna wrote:
The Register wrote:The TSA estimates that 90 to 93 per cent of all travel reservations are final by then.
Do they think the other 10 to 7 percent are last minute vacation plans? A good chunk of the last minute reservations are important shit, that's why they're last minute!
They should have thought of that before deciding not to be born in America!
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan

You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to
Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan

He who can,
does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
Kanastrous
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6464
Joined: 2007-09-14 11:46pm
Location: SoCal

Post by Kanastrous »

The FAA will likely fight this tooth and nail. After all, their brief is to promote commercial air travel, and this is precisely the opposite.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
Adrian Laguna
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4736
Joined: 2005-05-18 01:31am

Re: U.S. demands air passengers list 3 days in advance

Post by Adrian Laguna »

Flagg wrote:They should have thought of that before deciding not to be born in America!
Oh no, it's worse than that.

"all airline passengers would need advance permission before flying into, through, or over the United States regardless of citizenship or the airline's national origin."

The TSA are being equal opportunity bastards.
Datana
Jedi Master
Posts: 1011
Joined: 2002-07-04 03:16am
Contact:

Post by Datana »

The article sounded fishy, so I read the document detailing the proposed rules myself. The 72-hour requirement is on page 48360 (don't panic -- the PDF is an exerpt starting on page 48355), and the requirement continues through a few more pages of details and justifications.

Upon reading, this isn't nearly as bad as some alarmists are making it out to be. The TSA is merely requesting a list of available travellers (that is, what the airlines have reserved up to that point) and their data three days in advance to help clear the backlog of checks and to streamline the current system of verifying passenger data 15 minutes before a flight. Last-minute tickets are still perfectly possible, and this system makes things faster and easier on the TSA to check up on such passengers, as they don't have to deal with everyone else at the same time. People who reserve less than 72 hours in advance will simply have their information submitted to TSA "as soon as possible" (page 48362, third paragraph). They aren't getting anything they weren't getting before, only that they have some time to actually process things and look up and clear potential false positives, which I'd consider a net positive.

Sensationalistic reporting like this is why I completely distrust British newspapers.
Member of the Anti-PETA Anti-Fascist League
Post Reply