Lame characters from the EU

[Battlehymn Republic]

Please include some sort of explanation for why. Especially if your pick is controversial, as I will demonstrate.

From what I hearing, Kyp Durron is exceedingly lame because he's both a Gary Stu and got away with massive murder. I wouldn't call it genocide, though. But still, it was murder on an unprecedented scale.

I don't know why Corran Horn or Quinlan Vos are considered lame, and I hope people will please explain why. I don't really know what they've done.

I think Aayla Secura's character model is lame solely for the fact that she wears a sexy haltertop, which is fan service to the nth degree. And in SW, for such a rare subtype, blue Rutian female twi'leks are as much in overabundance as human female redheads.

[Tiriol]

I don't know why Corran Horn or Quinlan Vos are considered lame, and I hope people will please explain why. I don't really know what they've done.

Of the two, Corran Horn has lost much of his annoyance value to me for some reason. Perhaps the fact that the naturally proud and over-confident Corellian Jedi has had his come-uppances (and to Michael Stackpole's credit, Horn even sounded bitter when he noticed how easily Luke Skywalker defeated the Jensaarai warriors in I, Jedi, recognizing himself that Horn's deadly sin in Pride). Or perhaps because I haven't seen much Corran Horn action as of late, giving me emotional distance to the character.

However, Quinlan Vos...

He is one of the most overrated and over-exposed EU characters. While his original concept was good (or passable, at least) as an amnesiac Jedi seeking his place in the Order and trying to track down the pieces of his past, he quickly became the posterboy of the Clone Wars comics, somehow dodging the corruption of the dark side constantly, despite constantly heading straight into it and quite frankly even ramming into the dark side full speed like some sort of over-wanked Jedi torpedo of writer's Gary Stu (tm). Somehow not only did Count Dooku fail to corrupt him, but he also continued to make his "nick of time" escapes from the spiritual fall throughout the comic series. The Jedi even forgave his murder of a Republic loyalist Senator because "he wasn't thinking straight" or "it's all part of a plan to infiltrate Count Dooku's inner circle!". Whereas Kyp Durron (another notorious case of a Jedi not being held responsible for crimes that would have brought the Jedi upon any NON-Jedi quicker than one could say "let justice be done") at least showed remorse for the wanton destruction and death he had caused, Vos didn't manage to show any, just self-pity and self-righteous determination.

And not only that, through writer's fiat, he even escaped Order Sixty-Six despite that Revenge of the Sith comic book CLEARLY showing how he practically exploded thanks to a Juggernaut's blaster fire. But no, the great and all-powerful and always-cool and enigmatic lone wolf mythical cowboy Jedi Master Qunlan Vos survived with a broken arm and some amount of pain. And hasn't died as of yet, somehow.

There are few EU characters I absolutely detest, but Quinlan Vos is one of them.

Other "lame" characters I can think of are Admiral Daala (the concept is sound, but execution horrible), Jacen Solo (even the concept became retarded at some point) and Vergere (I just don't like her). Honorable mentions go to Revan thanks to some of the fan glorification given to him both in- and out-of-universe; Mara Jade at some points of her career (one would think that she would have realized how incredibly stupid it is to make demands of Vader or act petulant around him); and Dark Empire's Reborn Emperor (none of the intelligence nor the subtlety required, all of the faults of Evil Overlord's To Do List).

[Battlehymn Republic]

I've heard about Daala, too. Is it because she acted moronic or something?

[Tiriol]

I've heard about Daala, too. Is it because she acted moronic or something?

Yes. She lacked both tactical and strategical skill at level unseen even in the EU. While it can be exlained as Daala using outdated tactics against enemies used to them after the Galactic Civil War, one should at least think she'd adapt. He track record include losing one of her four Star Destroyers in every engagement she was involved after her accidental exposure to outside galaxy. Calling her incompetent doesn't describe her level of ridiculous military failures.

Daala did have some skills as an administrator, although she lacked patience and eye for detail even in that duty (Vice Admiral Pellaeon having to remind her of those things in Darksaber). Her greatest feat was re-uniting the Imperial warlords' forces left after the resurrected Emperor's death; however, she bungled even that by losing an Executor-class Star Dreadnought to a single terrorist. Not content with these setbacks, she managed to gather yet another fleet and strike against the New Republic as some sort of independent warlord, only to receive another merry round of punishment. Apparently she confused patience and long-term strategy with stubborness - something that her lover Grand Moff Tarkin MUST have recognized when he gave her a dead-end job removed from the rest of the galaxy in a secret facility with no outside contact whatsoever. She's like the bastard child of Ysanne Isard and Admiral Harkov with neither Isard's resources and charisma nor Harkov's cunning. She wouldn't have lasted long under Thrawn or Vader (or under Palpatine, for that matter - being criminally incompetent, she would have arosed his ire soon).

[bz249]

I've heard about Daala, too. Is it because she acted moronic or something?

Thankfully I am not KJA, so I do not know the original concept. From the dialogs I guessed that she should be a Rommelian type of commander, with natural born tactical skills, bold, innovative leadership style and quite an amount of luck, so a superb battlefield admiral who can salvage the most desparete battle situations. However because of the lack of general staff training, her strategic capabilities are on par with the same of an average water melon. I think the ideal villain, someone who win every battle, however lose the campaign because she run of fuel/munitions/spare parts, bogged down in fighting over worthless ratholes, stopped by some covert ops trick...etc.

On the contrary, she was a real incompetent moron and lost each and every engagement and she did it so miserably...

[Pelranius]

Every time I read about Daala, I kept on thinking about those COMPFORCE political soldiers.

Too bad Tarkin didn't bring her aboard the Death Star.

[CmdrWilkens]

Daala essentially was supposed to be KJA's "Thrawn" for his trilogy. The super-genius hidden Imperial officer who will threaten the New Republic with death and destruction. Instead she served only to prove how you can't give a character military skill by writer's fiat. They either have it (and demonstrate it) or they don't and no amount of saying "she was the greatest ever" will change the evidence at hand.

[PREDATOR490]

I found Corran rather enjoyable at times and regardless of the writer favour he gets in the books. Its nothing compared to what other writers have created. I expect that reduces the ire on Corran. Corran was never really demonstrated as being godly or more powerful than Luke. Both of which KJA seemed to portray with Kyp and was carried on down the line. His actions throughout the NJO as far as I recall were fairly good.

The worst characters that come to mind are Jacen Solo and Kyp Durron. Although Kyp does manage to have a few good spots down the line from other writers. He usually ends up being a source of conflict with Skywalker over the actions of the Jedi which in principle is a nice concept. His pathetic punishment didnt help any but its not so much Kyp that gets the ire for that than the Republic itself.

I never really liked Jacen. Especially during the NJO, he came across as being as whiny as Anakin Skywalker with all the hype of being the next best thing since Luke. I havent read anything after the end of NJO so I have no idea how he turned out since then.

[Darth Yoshi]

Jacen Solo was one of the biggest detriments to the Jedi war effort during NJO. He was directly responsible for the destruction of half the Hapan warfleet, causing the the withdrawal of the Hapan consortium from the NR war effort, and weakening Teneniel Djo's reign enough that her mother-in-law was able to get away with assassinating her. Tenel Ka was forced to ascend to the throne, which prevented her from doing anything else during the war. He also brought Vergere back to the NR/GA, leading to the disruption of the Alpha Red project, which would have ended the war (ignoring the ramifications of genocide, of course). In addition to all this, for the first several years of the war he sat and did nothing.

And let's not even start with his whole Sith Lord wannabe schtick.

[PainRack]

Zekk.
KJA second attempt at creating a Kyp Durron lite after the criticism of Kyp.Another outcast orphan who flirts with the Dark Side, does widespread destruction and in this case, is in love with Jaina Solo...............


Thank God the NJO resolve this, making his character salvageable via maturing all the characters involved. It even salvaged the Anakin Solo love affair and making it good, instead of another "shove a love affair involving the main character" of KJA Young and Kid Jedi series.

[Ritterin Sophia]

And let's not even start with his whole Sith Lord wannabe schtick.

Yeah, killing Mara with poison was lame as all hell.

[Crazedwraith]

Jacen Solo was one of the biggest detriments to the Jedi war effort during NJO. He was directly responsible for the destruction of half the Hapan warfleet,

Umm, No he wasn't. Thrackern Sal-Solo took the shot. He's directly responsible. Jacen simply convinced Anakin not to take the shot.

[Darth Yoshi]

The Hapan fleet was devastated because Jacen convinced Anakin, who could have taken the shot without hitting any Hapan ships, to stand down, giving Thrackan the opportunity to take the shot himself. I suppose arguing this any further would be nitpicking, but the point is that Jacen is to blame for the Hapan fleet.

[Kuja]

"...and how compassionate is it to the friends and familiars of Kyp's victimes to see him free and exalted?!"

With one line of dialogue, Mike Stackpole sums up why I hate Kyp Durron.

[Stark]

Yeah, Quinlan Vos. You know that theme of fall and redemption? He does that, like, every book. To the darkside! No, wait, I came back. Everything's cool now right? No? BACK TO THE DARKSIDE! Nah just kidding, I'm due for an expository scene with my huge-tittied woman. OH NO THE PATHOS.

It'd be funny, if people didn't lap it up.

[Crazedwraith]

The Hapan fleet was devastated because Jacen convinced Anakin, who could have taken the shot without hitting any Hapan ships, to stand down, giving Thrackan the opportunity to take the shot himself. I suppose arguing this any further would be nitpicking, but the point is that Jacen is to blame for the Hapan fleet.

Sorry, I was just nitpicking the 'directly' part. He was indirectly responsible, yes, but thats very different. Plus the other effects you ascribe to Jacen are also bollocks. Tenel becoming Queen of the Hapan's was a very good thing as it allowed the Hapans to rejoin to war. Tenel's effectiveness a single warrior is neglible compared to the entire Consortium.

Vegere also had more positive effects than negitive as she finally convinced Luke to stop being a pansie and actually do things.

[Darth Wong]

Most Imperial characters from the EU are lame. You never really see someone mount an eloquent argument for their side until the YV conveniently arrive and provide the 9/11 justification for totalitarianism and right-wing fascist politics.

[Sidewinder]

Luke Skywalker himself was pretty damn lame in 'The Courtship of Princess Leia', the 'Jedi Apprentice' trilogy (or whatever the hell brought Kyp Durron into the EU), and 'Darksaber'. Seriously, it's like he got lobotomized some time after the Battle of Endor. That, or the fucking writers of the fucking EU books assumed the readers are lobotomized, and wouldn't notice how fucking retarded the characters were.

[Lord Pounder]

With the exception of any Wraith Squadron member, Early Zahn (Zahns latest contributions have been shite even Mary Sueing Mara Jade in Allegiance) and Anakin Solo most EU characters tend to annoy me there days. Jacen Solo is the worst however. Sith Jacen had the ability to be an uber badass, instead he's just as much of a whiney bitch, just a little more decisive. In his fight with the Force trained bounty hunter in Exile (IIRC) he decided not to use lightning in case his bastard daughter saw, this the same Jacen thats been fucking with Ben Skywalkers mind from day one? Even in his fight against Mara he was a pussy. Sith Lord? More like Sith Lite.

[Thanas]

And let's not even start with his whole Sith Lord wannabe schtick.

Yeah, killing Mara with poison was lame as all hell.

Karen Traviss. A name which years later will be cited alongside KJA when someone tries to explain the crap masquerading as SW.

[Pelranius]

It always annoyed me how darn one dimensional warlords like Krennel and Harrsk were. Yeah, I know Palpatine put a lot of sociopaths in charge, but you'd think that they could run their fiefdoms with some common sense and not indulge in silly Stalinist shows of paranoia and Khmer Rouge levels of brutality towards the locals.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I think most of the characters are lame, but I think Jacen takes the grand prize for absolute lameness and cloned story writing.

[TC Pilot]

The only really two-dimensional warlord that I recall was Allston's Zsinj, who, upon discovering he still had a chance to recover Razor's Kiss, actually thought something along the lines of "I guess good things really do happen to good people," which struck me as so remarkable because he was the only villain up to that point who actually, explicitely thought he was doing the right thing.

[Lord Pounder]

And let's not even start with his whole Sith Lord wannabe schtick.

Yeah, killing Mara with poison was lame as all hell.

Karen Traviss. A name which years later will be cited alongside KJA when someone tries to explain the crap masquerading as SW.

I think we do KJA a dis-service these days. Sure his books where craptacular but compared to the drivel that Travis and Denning are currently putting out Anderson is on the higher end of shite. Personally a Hutt with a Superlaser is genious compared to hive minded Jedi, Jacen "Sith Lite" Solo and rehashes of the prequal trilogy.

[consequences]

The only really two-dimensional warlord that I recall was Allston's Zsinj, who, upon discovering he still had a chance to recover Razor's Kiss, actually thought something along the lines of "I guess good things really do happen to good people," which struck me as so remarkable because he was the only villain up to that point who actually, explicitely thought he was doing the right thing.

Now to me, that actually represents the opposite of the usual two-dimensional, "I'm an evil warlord, watch me be evil, gosh aren't I evil, herr, herr, herr" rubbish.